Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Solaxys]

Another major trade might not happen (at least from our end) until a few free agents get signed I'd think.

 

We basically need a CF/OF spot filled and a starting pitching spot filled and we have the money we saved from Teo/Tapia/Zimmer to spend on one, trade a catcher for the other.

Would be tough to trade the catcher for one of them just to see the FA market for the other dried up.

 

My wish is obviously Senga + trade catcher for OF (Carrol/Varsho/Nootbar/w.e), but might have to sign Yoshida/Nimmo and trade catcher for pitcher (Pablo Lopez???)

 

Lowkey, no to Nimmo. Really don't need two OFs made out of glass out there.

 

---

 

I do wonder if Gurriel is going to be traded as well

 

Thoughts on Joey Gallo? Dude plays defense, shift changes will help him a lot.

[Stangstag]

After tonight's trade, the D-Backs now have Carroll, Varsho, Thomas, McCarthy, and Lewis, plus some depth like Garrett and Fletcher in AAA. They look much more equipped to pull off a CF for CA trade than the Cardinals do. Just a matter of making the pieces fit.

 

Exactly what I thought when I saw the Lewis trade

[Stangstag]

Another major trade might not happen (at least from our end) until a few free agents get signed I'd think.

 

We basically need a CF/OF spot filled and a starting pitching spot filled and we have the money we saved from Teo/Tapia/Zimmer to spend on one, trade a catcher for the other.

Would be tough to trade the catcher for one of them just to see the FA market for the other dried up.

 

My wish is obviously Senga + trade catcher for OF (Carrol/Varsho/Nootbar/w.e), but might have to sign Yoshida/Nimmo and trade catcher for pitcher (Pablo Lopez???)

 

Lowkey, no to Nimmo. Really don't need two OFs made out of glass out there.

 

---

 

I do wonder if Gurriel is going to be traded as well

 

Thoughts on Joey Gallo? Dude plays defense, shift changes will help him a lot.

 

I agree Nimmo is not the best fit. And sure i’d take a flyer on Gallo as a bench bat/4th or 5th OF. Gotta be better than Tapia/Zimmer

[Grant77]

I agree Nimmo is not the best fit. And sure i’d take a flyer on Gallo as a bench bat/4th or 5th OF. Gotta be better than Tapia/Zimmer

 

I would consider his teammate Cody Bellinger if he is non-tendered as well.

[max silver]

Another major trade might not happen (at least from our end) until a few free agents get signed I'd think.

 

We basically need a CF/OF spot filled and a starting pitching spot filled and we have the money we saved from Teo/Tapia/Zimmer to spend on one, trade a catcher for the other.

Would be tough to trade the catcher for one of them just to see the FA market for the other dried up.

 

My wish is obviously Senga + trade catcher for OF (Carrol/Varsho/Nootbar/w.e), but might have to sign Yoshida/Nimmo and trade catcher for pitcher (Pablo Lopez???)

 

Lowkey, no to Nimmo. Really don't need two OFs made out of glass out there.

 

---

 

I do wonder if Gurriel is going to be traded as well

 

Thoughts on Joey Gallo? Dude plays defense, shift changes will help him a lot.

 

I have a hard time seeing Gurriel traded as well, given the fact that the only legitimate MLB outfielders on the roster at present are Gurriel and Springer. Having to find 3 outfielders in one offseason (the team presently doesn't have a proper 4th outfielder as well) is a pretty tall order.

 

Gallo might be a passable 4th outfielder target if the team can find a legitimate center field option to replace/backup Springer. Gallo likely can't play a passable center field due to declining foot speed. I'm curious to see if he's helped out that much by the shift ban. He only manages to put the ball in play during less than half of his plate appearances and the k rate is approaching 40%, so the shift ban might only add a handful of extra hits for him. Ultimately I'm not sure if the team would simply be better off playing Biggio in the outfield a bit more as he has also may see a bump in his numbers from the shift ban and has a similar offensive profile to Gallo (high k/high walk, low batting average etc.).

[Laika]

Gallo would be an amazing 4th OF but some team will absolutely be offering him a full time role, or at least a most-time role.

 

Gurriel has a lot of flaws. Given his salary (5.8M) there is no NEED to trade him but I hope his role on the depth chart heading into 2023 is "salary appropriate".

By that I mean, he shouldn't really be a locked in full time player. He should be in a platoon of sorts. I know he has even platoon splits in his career but it would be more about getting a RHP masher to complement him than it would be about hiding him against RHP.

He should also be the one getting removed for defensive purposes in late and close situations.

And he should be the first one to lose his job if there is an emergent prospect.

[Brownie19]

Yea that's smart. And its really looking like its coming down to the Cardinals and Diamondbacks who make the most amount of sense in terms of fit.

 

Let's hope Contreras signs with someone besides these 2 teams

[The Cats Ass]

I'd be game for a Jansen for Alek Thomas deal. He's not the flashy move for CF but he has a good floor, and lots of team control. I can see him as a slightly better version of Kevin Pillar. We don't need sluggers at every position, sure it'd be nice, but I think a great glove with speed in CF would work.

[Brownie19]

I'd be game for a Jansen for Alek Thomas deal. He's not the flashy move for CF but he has a good floor, and lots of team control. I can see him as a slightly better version of Kevin Pillar. We don't need sluggers at every position, sure it'd be nice, but I think a great glove with speed in CF would work.

 

Jansen for Thomas would be f***ing ideal, but the Diamondbacks aren't quite ready to contend, so I suspect they want someone with more control (unless they think they can sign him long term). Thomas as a considerably higher ceiling than Pillar. Pillar's ISO numbers never started with a 2 when he was in the minors and Thomas' BB% have double digits.

 

Can't see that happening unless we're adding another quality player to the deal.

[Jimcanuck]

Jansen for Thomas would be f***ing ideal, but the Diamondbacks aren't quite ready to contend, so I suspect they want someone with more control (unless they think they can sign him long term). Thomas as a considerably higher ceiling than Pillar. Pillar's ISO numbers never started with a 2 when he was in the minors and Thomas' BB% have double digits.

 

Can't see that happening unless we're adding another quality player to the deal.

 

Ya I can't see the D'Backs having a lot of interest in Jansen. Jays would need to overpay to make it work, someone like Gurriel or Biggio would need to be added, along with a prospect.

 

I see a Jansen extension and one of Kirk or Moreno moved to get someone like Thomas with that much control.

[BTS]

There's no way the D'Backs are trading Thomas here unless Kirk or Moreno are going to them.

[The Cats Ass]

There's no way the D'Backs are trading Thomas here unless Kirk or Moreno are going to them.

 

I'd do Moreno if one of their young pitching prospects were coming back with Thomas.

[Jimcanuck]

I'd do Moreno if one of their young pitching prospects were coming back with Thomas.

 

Moreno is considered by evaluators to be every bit the hitter Kirk is, with position flexibility, athleticism, and more control added in.

 

I suspect the d'backs would prefer Moreno.

 

They can negotiate on the pitching prospect to come to TO, but I hope Kirk is the one that gets moved.

[glory]

Moreno is considered by evaluators to be every bit the hitter Kirk is, with position flexibility, athleticism, and more control added in.

 

I suspect the d'backs would prefer Moreno.

 

They can negotiate on the pitching prospect to come to TO, but I hope Kirk is the one that gets moved.

 

I wouldn't be against trading Kirk, but there is some risk to the 2023 team in that scenario. Trading him after trading Hernandez, without getting an established good hitter in return is losing a lot of potential offense. Trading Moreno in that scenario might make more sense since Kirk/Jansen is an established elite catching tandem, while Moreno could take years to fully develop. If they trade Kirk in this type of deal then they'd have to have at least one hitter lined up to acquire who could hit in the top 4 in the lineup. I guess Kirk for Thomas + pitcher combined with signing Conforto has potential to turn into a net positive combining defense, base running, lineup balance, upside, etc, but there's still some risk there.

 

That's kind of the fascinating part in all of this. You can make an argument for trading any of the 3 catchers. Atkins has a tough decision to make, but I guess tough in a good way.

[Carlos Danger]

I'd do Moreno if one of their young pitching prospects were coming back with Thomas.

 

I think you are over valuing Moreno if you think we can get Thomas and a pitching prospect. We would be lucky to get Thomas.

[Jimcanuck]

I think you are over valuing Moreno if you think we can get Thomas and a pitching prospect. We would be lucky to get Thomas.

 

Terrible take.

 

Moreno > Thomas and its not close.

[Brownie19]

I think you are over valuing Moreno if you think we can get Thomas and a pitching prospect. We would be lucky to get Thomas.

 

Moreno was the #1 prospect in baseball for a brief period and then hit .319 in his first cup of coffee in the majors. Thomas maxed out as a top 15-20 prospect and then struggled mightily as a rookie last year. We'd certainly get Thomas for Moreno. Would we get a TOP pitching prospect + Thomas for Moreno? Seems unlikely - but that will depend the current evaluation of his talent. Given his 71 wRC+ in 411 PA's this past year, it's not unrealistic to think his value has decreased.

 

The more I look at all of this, the more I like the idea of Jansen (+ if necessary) for Nootbar. Gabby and Kirk give us a fantastic tandem for the next 5-6 seasons. It's like Whitt and Borders all over again - except our catchers are both all stars.

[Laika]

Ya I can't see the D'Backs having a lot of interest in Jansen. Jays would need to overpay to make it work, someone like Gurriel or Biggio would need to be added, along with a prospect.

 

I see a Jansen extension and one of Kirk or Moreno moved to get someone like Thomas with that much control.

 

lol I would throw Gurriel or Biggio into a deal like that in a millisecond

[Laika]

I think you are over valuing Moreno if you think we can get Thomas and a pitching prospect. We would be lucky to get Thomas.

 

this is an OUT TO LUNCH take Carlos

 

Moreno should be worth more than Thomas

 

I'm not sure if the gap is a "great pitching prospect" but there is a clear gap

[Jimcanuck]

lol I would throw Gurriel or Biggio into a deal like that in a millisecond

 

Same, and then get Conforto. D'backs might demand someone like Orelvis as the prospect tho.

[Laika]

Same, and then get Conforto. D'backs might demand someone like Orelvis as the prospect tho.

 

Toronto will not be signing Conforto. They will bring in a defense first CF who will play every day.

 

Everyone will HATE the move but it will be good.

[glory]

Moreno was the #1 prospect in baseball for a brief period and then hit .319 in his first cup of coffee in the majors. Thomas maxed out as a top 15-20 prospect and then struggled mightily as a rookie last year. We'd certainly get Thomas for Moreno. Would we get a TOP pitching prospect + Thomas for Moreno? Seems unlikely - but that will depend the current evaluation of his talent. Given his 71 wRC+ in 411 PA's this past year, it's not unrealistic to think his value has decreased.

 

The more I look at all of this, the more I like the idea of Jansen (+ if necessary) for Nootbar. Gabby and Kirk give us a fantastic tandem for the next 5-6 seasons. It's like Whitt and Borders all over again - except our catchers are both all stars.

 

Yeah that's probably the deal to make if it's available. Nootbaar isn't a legit CF like Thomas is but if he can play there enough to have Springer DH/play RF for a good part of the season, then it can work defensively. Plus you get 5 years of control on a LHH outfielder who can contribute right away (less risk). Not sure if the Cards would do it, but definitely the deal that makes the most sense for the Jays from a short and long term standpoint.

[Carlos Danger]

Moreno was the #1 prospect in baseball for a brief period and then hit .319 in his first cup of coffee in the majors. Thomas maxed out as a top 15-20 prospect and then struggled mightily as a rookie last year. We'd certainly get Thomas for Moreno. Would we get a TOP pitching prospect + Thomas for Moreno? Seems unlikely - but that will depend the current evaluation of his talent. Given his 71 wRC+ in 411 PA's this past year, it's not unrealistic to think his value has decreased.

 

The more I look at all of this, the more I like the idea of Jansen (+ if necessary) for Nootbar. Gabby and Kirk give us a fantastic tandem for the next 5-6 seasons. It's like Whitt and Borders all over again - except our catchers are both all stars.

 

The prospect rankings vs real difference in talent is negligible when you are talking top 25. Jo Adel was #1 a few years ago and Dylan Carlson was 15-20 and I would much rather have had Carlson.. Kelenic was ranked #1 and not doing so hot yet... I can go on and on.

 

Thomas is young, he didn't do well in his first go at the majors, it happens. Thomas has good historic perifials and fills a position of need for us.

 

To rephrase, I would be happy with Thomas for Moreno. I don't think, and you seem to agree, we would get a pitching spec worth a s*** as well.

 

I would ultimatley LOVE Varsho... Don't see it happening from the D-Backs side, but that would be sweet.

[Spanky99]

The prospect rankings vs real difference in talent is negligible when you are talking top 25. Jo Adel was #1 a few years ago and Dylan Carlson was 15-20 and I would much rather have had Carlson.. Kelenic was ranked #1 and not doing so hot yet... I can go on and on.

 

Thomas is young, he didn't do well in his first go at the majors, it happens. Thomas has good historic perifials and fills a position of need for us.

 

To rephrase, I would be happy with Thomas for Moreno. I don't think, and you seem to agree, we would get a pitching spec worth a s*** as well.

 

I would ultimatley LOVE Varsho... Don't see it happening from the D-Backs side, but that would be sweet.

 

.

[Stangstag]

Toronto will not be signing Conforto. They will bring in a defense first CF who will play every day.

 

Everyone will HATE the move but it will be good.

 

Rays rolled with KK for years and they did fine

[Jimcanuck]

It's a bit more complicated for the Jays in that even if Springer moves to corner OF, he's likely to miss a good chunk of games. So you don't want an all glove CF with a bat not much better than Tilapia or what's his name came over from the Red Sox.

[Laika]

It's a bit more complicated for the Jays in that even if Springer moves to corner OF, he's likely to miss a good chunk of games. So you don't want an all glove CF with a bat not much better than Tilapia or what's his name came over from the Red Sox.

 

Well it's not going to be a literal "all glove" CF like JBJ or Zimmer. They were like 50 wRC+ players. True zeroes with the stick.

 

Someone like KK would be a 85 to 90 wRC+ player (projection and 2022 results). That's palatable, playable, perfectly reasonable.

 

So a "mostly glove" CF.

[Stangstag]

It's a bit more complicated for the Jays in that even if Springer moves to corner OF, he's likely to miss a good chunk of games. So you don't want an all glove CF with a bat not much better than Tilapia or what's his name came over from the Red Sox.

 

Still have Biggio and Merrifield to cover if necessary, possibly even Moreno. None of those guys can play an elite CF. I think we do need an elite or at least above average defender there.

[Terminator]

Kiermaier would work. Could be some platoon options there with Springer shifting over to CF against lefties and then putting Whit in the OF with Espinal at 2B.

[Stangstag]

Well it's not going to be a literal "all glove" CF like JBJ or Zimmer. They were like 50 wRC+ players. True zeroes with the stick.

 

Someone like KK would be a 85 to 90 wRC+ player (projection and 2022 results). That's palatable, playable, perfectly reasonable.

 

So a "mostly glove" CF.

 

2015 Pillar would be perfect