General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Solaxys]

I'd maybe consider trading for a Montas/Castillo type, but only if one of the top 3 members of the rotation were to get hurt and end up missing the remainder of the season.

 

Personally, if we can get either for something relatively not damning, I would definitely try as both of those guys can easily go into bullpen for the postseason and be elite with swing/miss.

Stripling would go back into long-relief which would also help the bullpen during the season.

[Dagagad]

I'd maybe consider trading for a Montas/Castillo type, but only if one of the top 3 members of the rotation were to get hurt and end up missing the remainder of the season.

 

Yea, maybe if one of them gets injured. It still sticks in my craw that this is even necessary. It’s been 6 years and we spend a lot in free agency, we spent a lot to get berrios, and we still need to deal for starting pitching of this caliber? It’s a f***ing joke.

 

We aren’t Houston or Tampa that’s for sure. Good front office, not great.

[Benito]

100% we should be inquiring about Montas and Castillo. I'm not yet as concerned with Berrios as others understandably are. But another reliable starter to alleviate the pressures off our fragile bullpen, would be very much welcomed. I just don't know I'd like it if it came at the cost of Tiedemann. But with Beane, you never know. He sometimes seems to prefer quantity over quality, and likes prospects close to contributing to the major league roster. I think Groshans would be appealing to him.

[max silver]

Yea, maybe if one of them gets injured. It still sticks in my craw that this is even necessary. It’s been 6 years and we spend a lot in free agency, we spent a lot to get berrios, and we still need to deal for starting pitching of this caliber? It’s a f***ing joke.

 

We aren’t Houston or Tampa that’s for sure. Good front office, not great.

 

I think this year is indicative of the direction the front office is headed in with regards to pitching development. There are a number of really high profile success stories happening in the low minors, and I suspect this may be a sign of things to come in the future as well. I recall somebody from the front office stating recently that their draft methodology has changed and that they are going to start targeting more potentially high ceiling arms. I think the player development complex will soon start bearing fruit as well in regards to coaxing the best velocity and pitch design out of their young pitchers.

[John_Havok]

I don't think I would either if asking price is Orelvis + Tiedemann. I'm a huge Tiedemann fan, and think he's legit. I know pitching prospects can break your hearts, but Tiedemann looks special. He's been as dominant in the minors as Manoah and Pearson had been, but at a younger age. He has no health flags or concerns with his deliver that I remember reading. Good size for a pitcher and throws from left side. I'd want more than 1.5 years of control if Tiedemann is on the table. On top of that, adding Orelvis, and it's an easy no for me. I might be in the minority?

 

I think it’s too much also, but like I said, you know that’s what they’d ask for.

[Solaxys]

So, if you take out the single outing against Yankees (even though the Stanton HR was just Stanton hitting it better than it was pitched, not a bad pitch; the rest were meatballs),

 

Trent Thornton:

29 IP, 2.17 ERA, 1.1 WHIP, 2.0 K/BB, No HRs; his slider has been pretty lit. I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

[Stangstag]

So, if you take out the single outing against Yankees (even though the Stanton HR was just Stanton hitting it better than it was pitched, not a bad pitch; the rest were meatballs),

 

Trent Thornton:

29 IP, 2.17 ERA, 1.1 WHIP, 2.0 K/BB, No HRs; his slider has been pretty lit. I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

 

Yeah he honestly has looked good aside from that Yankees game and maybe a couple games near the beginning of the season

[jaysblue]

100% we should be inquiring about Montas and Castillo. I'm not yet as concerned with Berrios as others understandably are. But another reliable starter to alleviate the pressures off our fragile bullpen, would be very much welcomed. I just don't know I'd like it if it came at the cost of Tiedemann. But with Beane, you never know. He sometimes seems to prefer quantity over quality, and likes prospects close to contributing to the major league roster. I think Groshans would be appealing to him.

 

I thought starters going 6 to 7 innings today wasn't the norm anymore because they throw at max effort?

 

Starters that can go 7 or 8 innings majority of the time will help the overall bullpen. If a Blue Jays starter is under 100 pitches and is through 6 innings pitching well, they should be going out in the 7th.

[Dagagad]

I thought starters going 6 to 7 innings today wasn't the norm anymore because they throw at max effort?

 

Starters that can go 7 or 8 innings majority of the time will help the overall bullpen. If a Blue Jays starter is under 100 pitches and is through 6 innings pitching well, they should be going out in the 7th.

 

Does any other team have starters regularly go into the 7th? My feeling was that that is pretty rare.

[Laika]

Toronto is 16th in innings pitched by relievers. Only 18 more innings pitched than the Yankees, who are 26th.

 

I don't think their pen is being taxed to an extreme degree.

 

The only specific concern that I have is Jordan Romano who:

 

a) might be hurt

might just be mediocre

c) might have bad stamina

[jaysblue]

Does any other team have starters regularly go into the 7th? My feeling was that that is pretty rare.

 

Not as often as 5 to 10 years ago. Maybe some old school guys like Verlander, who is still averaging more than 6 innings per outing. A lot of younger arms or arms in general aren't being pushed as much these days. Depends on pitch count obviously and how stressful their innings were. I'm not advocating for every manager to go all Dusty Baker, though having a starter throw around 100 pitches per outing now seems like a rarity these days.

 

You need a strong bullpen in order to shorten games for starters. Blue Jays don't have an elite or strong bullpen, so having a starter only going 5 or 6 innings makes it a lot more difficult. You need to cover 3 to 4 innings of relief pretty much every game, unless you have a starter or two who pitches into the 7th or 8th inning during the week. Makes you more vulnerable if you have a weak bullpen and over the course of a long season, some guys might even run out of gas when August or September come around.

[BigCecil]

Random thought but I would honestly be pretty devastated if they trade kirk. I don’t care if his body falls apart, please don’t trade the little fat guy that can hit. I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed watching a baseball player as much as him.

 

I have recency bias, but for the most part all he has done since he came up is hit with no AA or AAA time. And now we know he can actually also play some D.

 

He is a great story. His swing and load are a thing of beauty. Simple and quick turn which allows him to stay back and be so selective. Don't laugh but it reminds me of Paul Molitors'. Its just a quick turn and the bat path through the zone is so good. He zones up and crushes a 3-0 the other day against the ChiSox. I mean...thats about as good as it gets for me. I would trust him more than any other hitter on this team to zone up 3-0.

[Laika]

BERRIOS (career)

 

1st time though order --> wOBA against .302

2nd time through order --> wOBA against .304

3rd time through order --> wOBA against .318

 

GAUSMAN

 

1st time though order --> wOBA against .300

2nd time through order --> wOBA against .323

3rd time through order --> wOBA against .322

 

MANOAH

 

1st time though order --> wOBA against .229

2nd time through order --> wOBA against .277

3rd time through order --> wOBA against .290

 

STRIPLING

 

1st time though order --> wOBA against .304

2nd time through order --> wOBA against .318

3rd time through order --> wOBA against .345

 

KIKUCHI

 

1st time though order --> wOBA against .353

2nd time through order --> wOBA against .332

3rd time through order --> wOBA against .352

 

 

The league average wOBA this year is .310

Last year it was .314

 

Trent Thornton, a mediocre middle reliever for Toronto, has a .299 wOBA against this year.

Cimber = .300

Yimi = .279

Phelps = .274

Mayza = .301

 

Conclusions:

 

1. Stripling should almost never face an order for the 3rd time, even if the RP coming in is not great

2. Kikuchi should retire

3. Toronto will typically be right if they remove Berrios during his third time through the order, even if the RP coming in is not amazing

4. Manoah might be special but it STILL would probably make sense to remove him before the 8th in most games if the replacement pitcher is a good setup man. But matchups will be important. Manoah has a case so far (small sample size) to be left in deep into games.

5. Gausman has weird numbers and had a significant skill chance last couple years so I will not conclude anything on him

[Solaxys]

Toronto is 16th in innings pitched by relievers. Only 18 more innings pitched than the Yankees, who are 26th.

 

I don't think their pen is being taxed to an extreme degree.

 

The only specific concern that I have is Jordan Romano who:

 

a) might be hurt

might just be mediocre

c) might have bad stamina

 

I said this before but Romano has two bad habits.

1. He tries to get the opposing hitters to chase his off-strikezone slider before he even establishes his fastball (check the Tim Anderson at bat) - whether that's because he is scared they'll hit his fastball or something else, not sure.

2. When his fastball command is wonky, he defaults to using his sliders in the zone as strikes - and they get hit very hard, very easily.

 

The moments he loses trust in his fastball are the moments he looks terrible.

Same can be said for Kikuchi.

[Laika]

I said this before but Romano has two bad habits.

1. He tries to get the opposing hitters to chase his off-strikezone slider before he even establishes his fastball (check the Tim Anderson at bat) - whether that's because he is scared they'll hit his fastball or something else, not sure.

2. When his fastball command is wonky, he defaults to using his sliders in the zone as strikes - and they get hit very hard, very easily.

 

The moments he loses trust in his fastball are the moments he looks terrible.

Same can be said for Kikuchi.

 

So pitching "backwards" is what a lot of pitchers do now, particularly the fastball + breaking ball relievers

 

A lot of them throw more breakers than fastball these days

 

I'm not entirely sure there is something wrong with Romano's approach. But his command just sucks this year that's for sure.

[Solaxys]

Bruh, what did he say.

[John_Havok]

Bruh, what did he say.

 

Suspension isnt for the words, its for the contact.

 

Hope he said it was a cocksucking strike zone and the entire conversation went exactly as it did in Bull Durham.

[Laika]

He must have poked him in the chest or something I guess?

[Krylian]

Bruh, what did he say.

 

Worth it. f*** that ump.

[Brownie19]

Worth it. f*** that ump.

 

Did anyone post the umpire scorecard from that game? I've been busy and probably missed it. Was it one of the worst games called this year (or in the past 5 years)?

[Brownie19]

So pitching "backwards" is what a lot of pitchers do now, particularly the fastball + breaking ball relievers

 

A lot of them throw more breakers than fastball these days

 

I'm not entirely sure there is something wrong with Romano's approach. But his command just sucks this year that's for sure.

 

I think this is the root issue. It's not that he's scared people will hit his fastball. He just can't throw the fastball where he wants it (or for strikes) so he often has to pitch backwards. The reality is these guys aren't robots and sometimes they have to throw the pitch they are most comfortable throwing for strikes - not the pitch that's best for that particular situation. At least that's my take as someone who pitched for most their life and was in that situation more than I'd like to admit.

[Spanky99]

Did anyone post the umpire scorecard from that game? I've been busy and probably missed it. Was it one of the worst games called this year (or in the past 5 years)?

 

Yes. It was historically bad going back near 15 years, 1 of 3 in that timeframe I believe.

[Terminator]

Bruh, what did he say.

 

Blue Jays Legend

[Deadpool]

Did anyone post the umpire scorecard from that game? I've been busy and probably missed it. Was it one of the worst games called this year (or in the past 5 years)?

 

https://umpscorecards.com/single_umpire/?name=Doug%20Eddings

 

[P2F]

https://umpscorecards.com/single_umpire/?name=Doug%20Eddings

 

 

Imagine being so bad that you impacted the game by 6 f***ing runs as an umpire at the highest level of the sport.

[John_Havok]

Imagine being so bad that you impacted the game by 6 f***ing runs as an umpire at the highest level of the sport.

 

I wonder what the actual follow up process is for these guys. Like I know we'll never see it or really even hear about it, but there has to be some kind of mechanism that would require someone to go over a game like this with the ump after the fact and point out how very clearly wrong he was on 35% of his called strikes in an effort to have him clearly see where his blind spots were so he could potentially improve going forward.

 

But then again, Angel Hernandez. So obviously there is no mechanism.

 

Ah well, most of their ball strike decisions will be replaced soon enough

[JaysAllMighty]

Umps should never be the talk of the game in any circumstances. Not hearing about them means they are doing their job appropriately.

 

They should be made accountable for their incompetence, demoted or fired accordingly.

[jaysfaithful8]

Is there any way we can see when the Jays get saddled with Eddings again on the schedule?

[jaysblue]

Mostly every pitcher is at more of a disadvantage third time through the order, versus first or second. Though that doesn't mean some of your top starters can't pitch a third time through the order. Again a lot depends on score, matchups, game situation, pitch count, # of stressful innings/pitches prior and most importantly the bullpen arms you have available. No reason why some of the Blue Jays top starters like Manoah, Gausman and Berrios can't pitch past the seventh inning on occasion when they have a good pitch count and aren't laboring. If they're cruising along, keep them in.

 

If the score is 4-1 or 5-1 entering the 7th or 8th inning, and one of those starters is around 90 or so pitches, let them go out for the 7th or 8th and have guys in the BP warming up if need be. Again, depends on matchups at that time in the game.

[Stangstag]

No George in the lineup tonight…

 

DL stint likely I guess, just hope its not a major elbow issue that prevents him from playing the OF for the rest of the year