[Rosenthal] - Jays still going after Ramirez to play 2B?

[Ray]

Not sure who this person is, but she seems to have a lot of followers on Twitter:

 

 

Between this and Baerga, I feel like there is too much smoke. They must still be trying hard for J-Ram.

[Ray]

Biggio, Pearson, Martinez, & Kirk. I think that gets it done.

[Daniel Labude]

Biggio, Pearson, Martinez, & Kirk. I think that gets it done.

 

Biggio, Pearson, Groshans, Kirk

[Laika]

Biggio, Pearson, Martinez, & Kirk. I think that gets it done.

 

haha uhhhh not sure how I would feel about that one

[204Jays]

Biggio, Pearson, Groshans, Kirk

 

As a casual fan, that feels like a lot to me. Wdyt?

[JaysAllMighty]

Biggio, Pearson, Martinez, & Kirk. I think that gets it done.

 

Biggio, Pearson, Groshans, Kirk

 

 

Are you guys serious? No way!

[Laika]

Cleveland would probably require:

 

A: a package with Moreno + filler

 

of

 

B: a package like above with one or both of Groshans/Orelvis plus like Kirk and Pearson....

 

Finessing them for Ramirez would probably STILL involve losing Groshans and Kirk, plus other pieces.

[Deadpool]

I honestly cannot believe this is still a thing, there's no need for this and the cost will be staggering.

[Sammy225]

I honestly cannot believe this is still a thing, there's no need for this and the cost will be staggering.

 

I know our offense is more the good. lets use whats left of our resources to shore up the bullpen and i will be a happy boy.

[Terminator]

Biggio, Pearson, Martinez, & Kirk. I think that gets it done.

 

Sounds good to me.

[saskjayfan]

Sounds good to me.

 

That's a lot. Can Moreno stick at catcher? Was Danny Jansen's second half a revelation or a mirage? Nate pitched all last season with a sports hernia. What if he puts it all together? Our team is really, really good. We don't need to pull this deal off until the deadline.

[Jays24]

Pearson, Biggio, Kirk and a low level prospect is as far as I would go assuming we could sign Jose to an extension.

 

I don't want to give up a bunch of good young controllable talent for a 2 year rental. The difference between Jose and a comeback version of Biggio is not worth the risk for me.

[Ryu In My House]

Sounds good to me.

 

I do that trade. it stings. But no Manoah or Moreno from my POV.

[John_Havok]

Pearson, Biggio, Kirk and a low level prospect is as far as I would go assuming we could sign Jose to an extension.

 

I don't want to give up a bunch of good young controllable talent for a 2 year rental. The difference between Jose and a comeback version of Biggio is not worth the risk for me.

 

The difference between J-Ram and a comeback version of Biggio is pretty significant. Ramires is a 6-8 WAR player. A Biggio comeback year would have him between 2 and 3.

[Brownie19]

Martinez, Biggio, Kirk and Pearson seems like a f*** TON more than the Braves gave up for 2 years of Olson. I know Ramirez is better (projected 1.4 WAR better this year after being 1.3 WAR better last year). Braves didn't give up a Top 100 prospect for him (and yes I know Pache used to be).

 

Wouldn't Groshans and Kirk be viewed better than Pache and Shea Langeliers to make up the difference in talent from Olson to Ramirez and be the core of the deal? Add in some pitching flyers (probably Ricky Tiedemann, maybe Van Eyk or Adam Kloffenstein). I see no way we should have to give up Pearson and Martinez. We'd keep Biggio who could platoon with Grichuk at DH (or in other positions to let guys DH) and you keep Pearson who we need this year and next.

 

Giving up a Top 35 prospect (Martinez), a former Top 10 pick (Pearson), a guy projected to be the 2nd best hitting catcher in baseball (Kirk) and someone who had 3.7 WAR over his first 159 games (before a horrible 2021 full of injuries and playing out of position) seems like WAYY more than the Braves had to give up. I understand there are different factors from the selling team, but there's no way I give up those 4 right now.

[Brownie19]

The difference between J-Ram and a comeback version of Biggio is pretty significant. Ramires is a 6-8 WAR player. A Biggio comeback year would have him between 2 and 3.

 

I think you're pushing it. He's projected at 5.8 WAR and has only been over 6.5 WAR once, which was inflated by big time BsR numbers, which he's unlikely to ever repeat again. I guess if you squint you might extrapolate his 2020 season over a full season to get 7+, but I think 5.5 to 6.5 is more likely.

 

He's still a GREAT player

[Sorrow]

That's a lot. Can Moreno stick at catcher? Was Danny Jansen's second half a revelation or a mirage? Nate pitched all last season with a sports hernia. What if he puts it all together? Our team is really, really good. We don't need to pull this deal off until the deadline.

 

From May 7th on Jansen had a 150+ wRC+. He did it for most of the year but it was still a small sample size.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

I honestly cannot believe this is still a thing, there's no need for this and the cost will be staggering.

 

This is exactly the time to do this move. You dont do this when you are going to be fighting for a WC. You make this move when you are contending for the WS. Its the perfect place on the win curve.

 

JRam could be the difference between a championship or 2, vs just a playoff appearance.

 

f***ing go ill in, to a reasonable extent.

 

I'd do Orelvis + Kirk + Pearson + B spect at the most, and hopefully find a way to keep Pearson and instead add a lesser SP prospect.

 

Losing Orelvis would be tough but we'd still have Groshans and Beltre for when we lose one of JRam/Chapman.

[John_Havok]

I think you're pushing it. He's projected at 5.8 WAR and has only been over 6.5 WAR once, which was inflated by big time BsR numbers, which he's unlikely to ever repeat again. I guess if you squint you might extrapolate his 2020 season over a full season to get 7+, but I think 5.5 to 6.5 is more likely.

 

He's still a GREAT player

 

Very true. Just saying that his good year vs a Biggio good year is pretty significant for a team that's trying to get over the 95-ish wins threshold.

 

By no means is trading for him needed, but to think that an offer of Pearson, Kirk and Biggio would even come close to getting a deal done is pretty silly. (not your words, i know). Plus, when talking about this trade vs the Olson trade and trying to compare... gotta remember that different teams value different players and prospects differently, not to mention that Olson is a 1b, vs a plus defending 3b (or 2b i guess) with roughly equal offensive output. That's a pretty big difference.

[John_Havok]

This is exactly the time to do this move. You dont do this when you are going to be fighting for a WC. You make this move when you are contending for the WS. Its the perfect place on the win curve.

 

JRam could be the difference between a championship or 2, vs just a playoff appearance.

 

f***ing go ill in, to a reasonable extent.

 

I'd do Orelvis + Kirk + Pearson + B spect at the most, and hopefully find a way to keep Pearson and instead add a lesser SP prospect.

 

Losing Orelvis would be tough but we'd still have Groshans and Beltre for when we lose one of JRam/Chapman.

 

I actually think they Jays should take it one step further. If Cleveland is so hung up on getting Manoah, say... fine. You can have Manoah, Moreno, Biggio and Kirk ++ .... we get Bieber and J Ram. Go all in like a boss - and still have Groshans and Orelvis in the fold.

[glory]

If you can get a deal for Ramirez without giving up Moreno or Martinez, then you have to consider it, but I don't think it's necessary at the moment. This team even with Biggio at 2B projects to be a 90+ win team, and upgrades at the deadline are fairly routine. Hell, Ramirez himself will probably be available at the deadline depending on where CLE is in the standings. You can always revisit it then. The Chapman trade was so good because the players the Jays gave up, even if a couple end up being good, were expendable on this team. The type of prospects it would require to get Ramirez right now would not be the expendable kind, so they have to be more careful.

[Brownie19]

Very true. Just saying that his good year vs a Biggio good year is pretty significant for a team that's trying to get over the 95-ish wins threshold.

 

By no means is trading for him needed, but to think that an offer of Pearson, Kirk and Biggio would even come close to getting a deal done is pretty silly. (not your words, i know). Plus, when talking about this trade vs the Olson trade and trying to compare... gotta remember that different teams value different players and prospects differently, not to mention that Olson is a 1b, vs a plus defending 3b (or 2b i guess) with roughly equal offensive output. That's a pretty big difference.

 

I get all that. I mean there were rumours the A's wanted Volpe in any deal for Olson and that just doesn't seem to compute with what they actually received. I know the defensive value helps, but WAR is WAR. I'd give up Orelvis, Kirk, Pearson and Biggio for 4 years of Ramirez, but not 2.

[Terminator]

2-3 WAR players are low hanging fruit for Atkins. When he rolls out of bed in the morning he steps on a couple of them. So I'd easily trade 3 or 4 of them for a perennial MVP candidate to finish off this roster.

[Jays24]

2-3 WAR players are low hanging fruit for Atkins. When he rolls out of bed in the morning he steps on a couple of them. So I'd easily trade 3 or 4 of them for a perennial MVP candidate to finish off this roster.

 

That sounds great but do you do it even if you know the chances to keep him are slim after 2 years?

 

Our competitive window is just starting so I'm not in favour of depleting our team for 2 years and be left with nothing after that. This needs to be a sustained window of success.

 

I'd rather be a 95 win team consistently for 6 years than be a 100 win team for 2 years and then be a 90 win team afterwards. Hope that makes sense.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Jays24

[mellow_gold]

2-3 WAR players are low hanging fruit for Atkins. When he rolls out of bed in the morning he steps on a couple of them. So I'd easily trade 3 or 4 of them for a perennial MVP candidate to finish off this roster.

 

Even with Chapman on board, JRam remains a perfect fit on this team.

 

If I'm Ross I'm hanging on to Moreno and I don't want to sell low on Pearson but I tell Cleveland they can have Orelvis, Kirk, and one of Biggio/LGJ.

[WryNGinger]

I would 100% be ok if the only additions to the roster are of the bullpen variety at this point. If they take training camp and the first month of the season to see which players have made big improvements in the off-season then they can more accurately judge which holes they need to fill.

[Krylian]

Grichuk, McGuire, Palacios, Samad Taylor for JRam

 

Who says no?

[connorp]

Grichuk, McGuire, Palacios, Samad Taylor for JRam

 

Who says no?

 

In said scenario, is there secret photos of Cle GM cheating on his wife?

[InsideThePark]

Grichuk, McGuire, Palacios, Samad Taylor for JRam

 

Who says no?

 

The Yankees

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

2-3 WAR players are low hanging fruit for Atkins. When he rolls out of bed in the morning he steps on a couple of them. So I'd easily trade 3 or 4 of them for a perennial MVP candidate to finish off this roster.

 

Love this take