Around Baseball 2022

[BTS]

Listen, there’s no debate money doesn’t always buy you a good team. But like what good prospects did Detroit trade that are very regrettable? What damage was done trying? What happened was they made all the wrong moves and wasted time. If some of these prospects work out for them, I’m sure they’ll be spending again.

 

They blew a nut and will be ready to go when it’s time I’m sure

 

The problem wasn't in trying. The Dodgers, Braves, and Cardinals never stop trying and I'm guessing Houston won't either. The problem is that their effort was a ham-fisted plan that mostly consisted of indiscriminately throwing money at whoever would take it, and most of those guys aged predictably. And what happens when they age isn't just that you have dead money. It would be better if they just cut their sunk costs. But most of the time these big contract players linger on the roster for years and eat up PAs while providing no value. They hurt your ability to spend and they hurt the on field product. Look at Miggy in Detroit and Pujols in LA. Hosmer has been costing the Padres wins for 5 years. If Bogaerts becomes a below average player, he's probably going to just keep playing SS for SD while proving no value.

 

As for the damage that was done in Detroit: 8 years of failure. Maybe more. That's a really, really big price to pay for a 4-year stretch of good baseball.

[connorp]

Of course buying FA isn’t going to win anything on its own. I don’t think anyone is suggesting if you have a $300m payroll that you don’t need to internally develop player…and retain the ones you have..

 

The 10 year contracts you’re pointing out that were bad, and most of other ones, are still getting signed. The market has been established. I get being a purist and turning your nose to that. It’s like a movie snob and then these Marvel movies come along

[BTS]

The 10 year contracts you’re pointing out that were bad, and most of other ones, are still getting signed. The market has been established. I get being a purist and turning your nose to that. It’s like a movie snob and then these Marvel movies comes along

 

I hate you because I wrote an entire paragraph and you just responded with nonsense.

[connorp]

I hate you because I wrote an entire paragraph and you just responded with nonsense.

 

If the Jays suddenly decided they were less worried about the bottom line and ok’d a $300m payroll, I think you’d see things would change a little. GMs of any business are going to operate according to their budget

[Spanky__99]

I will enjoy rooting against the Mets this season

 

 

That deal is reasonable. I like this one for the Mets. They're going to be good. And in saying that, f*** em all.

[Spanky__99]

Looks like Atkins will miss out on every top free agent available this year!

 

Regardless of how the off-season went and crazy spending by Mets and Padres this will come back to haunt Atkins/ Shapiro.

 

Both talking smack to the media that they have “The Resources” and could eclipse any salary penalties.

 

This is not the time to trade away assets for other players, you sign free agents when youÂ’re 1-2 players away. History has proven this time and time again.

 

The Jays will come up short making playoffs and Shapiro will make Atkins the scapegoat and dismiss him as GM at the end of the season. Major mis-calculation by Atkins/Shapiro in the free agent market if in fact they had the dollars to strike for a good pitcher even if a 50-75 million overpay if it gave you the edge to make the playoffs and potential World Series.

 

To be honest no trade is going to put this team over the hump when you take away good players on the existing team. Not making it past the first round in playoffs from last year and next two is not good enough for the fan base after waiting and buying into the rebuild.

 

Now is the time to f***ing go for it and hope you win once in 3 years with the core or we go for whole rebuild for another 6-7 years, you will not get a Bo and Vlad again in the next 10 years come along.

 

Again, Atkins/ Shapiro totally mis-read the market. Could they still make a big splash and sign Rodon yes, but are they going to commit 210 million to a player. They need to stop thinking about signing Bo and Vlad. Bo is NOT staying in Toronto he has never said he would or would be open to an extension. Vlad has said he would but he is NOT going to take a discount now, players union will not allow him to and his market would be huge.

 

In all this, Atkins and Shapiro need to say f*** it, sign someone like Rodon and you have 4 solid pitchers next 4-6 years, trade Bo and Vlad in final year 2025 for stud prospects and they are back in playoffs 2027 onwards.

 

f*** the sustainable competitor model never works for any team, every team in MLB has down years and need to re-tool or rebuild. Time is now Atkins and Shapiro at least you could look in the camera at the fan base and say you tried even if you come up short in 2023-2024 but at least you f***ing tried if you land Rodon or another stud pitcher!

 

Wow... I don't even!

[Spanky__99]

I didn't see it either but when a player signs with a team that is not mine, f*** them!!

 

Hahaha... this!

[Eat My Shatkins]

Looks like Atkins will miss out on every top free agent available this year!

 

Regardless of how the off-season went and crazy spending by Mets and Padres this will come back to haunt Atkins/ Shapiro.

 

Both talking smack to the media that they have “The Resources” and could eclipse any salary penalties.

 

This is not the time to trade away assets for other players, you sign free agents when youÂ’re 1-2 players away. History has proven this time and time again.

 

The Jays will come up short making playoffs and Shapiro will make Atkins the scapegoat and dismiss him as GM at the end of the season. Major mis-calculation by Atkins/Shapiro in the free agent market if in fact they had the dollars to strike for a good pitcher even if a 50-75 million overpay if it gave you the edge to make the playoffs and potential World Series.

 

To be honest no trade is going to put this team over the hump when you take away good players on the existing team. Not making it past the first round in playoffs from last year and next two is not good enough for the fan base after waiting and buying into the rebuild.

 

Now is the time to f***ing go for it and hope you win once in 3 years with the core or we go for whole rebuild for another 6-7 years, you will not get a Bo and Vlad again in the next 10 years come along.

 

Again, Atkins/ Shapiro totally mis-read the market. Could they still make a big splash and sign Rodon yes, but are they going to commit 210 million to a player. They need to stop thinking about signing Bo and Vlad. Bo is NOT staying in Toronto he has never said he would or would be open to an extension. Vlad has said he would but he is NOT going to take a discount now, players union will not allow him to and his market would be huge.

 

In all this, Atkins and Shapiro need to say f*** it, sign someone like Rodon and you have 4 solid pitchers next 4-6 years, trade Bo and Vlad in final year 2025 for stud prospects and they are back in playoffs 2027 onwards.

 

f*** the sustainable competitor model never works for any team, every team in MLB has down years and need to re-tool or rebuild. Time is now Atkins and Shapiro at least you could look in the camera at the fan base and say you tried even if you come up short in 2023-2024 but at least you f***ing tried if you land Rodon or another stud pitcher!

 

lol

 

I wish you would step back from that ledge, my friend

[Spanky__99]

I hate you because I wrote an entire paragraph and you just responded with nonsense.

 

lmao

[Carlos Danger]

Giants sign Manaea.

 

Interesting. I thought they would go Rondon or Bassit. I guess they still could, but doubt it now.

 

I am happy, Bassit still on market, just has the pick attached which is pretty big..

[Ehjays]

Giants sign Manaea.

 

Interesting. I thought they would go Rondon or Bassit. I guess they still could, but doubt it now.

 

I am happy, Bassit still on market, just has the pick attached which is pretty big..

 

 

Yeah SF said the werent looking at Bassit, I dont think they liked the amount of years he is asking for.

 

But they may have said this cause they had this deal ready to roll.

[Stangstag]

 

Yeah SF said the werent looking at Bassit, I dont think they liked the amount of years he is asking for.

 

But they may have said this cause they had this deal ready to roll.

 

This would have been a nice deal for Ross to pull off. Inflated ERA last year compared to his FIP/xFIP, but The stats still seem ok.

 

Better track record than Kikuchi and a cheaper contract…

[BTS]

 

Yeah SF said the werent looking at Bassit, I dont think they liked the amount of years he is asking for.

 

But they may have said this cause they had this deal ready to roll.

 

SF has done well with the Haniger and Manaea deals

[Laika]

SF has done well with the Haniger and Manaea deals

 

Yeah but it's the same old thing for the Giants.

 

A collection of low-risk players on decent deals, lots of veterans.... no stars at all.

 

The Giants need to be reeling in Carlos Correa and MORE immediately. If they don't this offseason, they really f***ed up. They need a f***ing star player or two.

 

Their best projected bat is Thairo Estrada!

[BTS]

Yeah but it's the same old thing for the Giants.

 

A collection of low-risk players on decent deals, lots of veterans.... no stars at all.

 

The Giants need to be reeling in Carlos Correa and MORE immediately. If they don't this offseason, they really f***ed up. They need a f***ing star player or two.

 

Their best projected bat is Thairo Estrada!

 

The problem is that SF isn't good, at all. To whatever extent they rebuilt, they came out of it with Logan Webb, Thairo Estrada, and whatever Joey Bart is. They're not 1-2 players away from competing, even if those guys are stars.

[Laika]

The problem is that SF isn't good, at all. To whatever extent they rebuilt, they came out of it with Logan Webb, Thairo Estrada, and whatever Joey Bart is. They're not 1-2 players away from competing, even if those guys are stars.

 

Then why are they signing Joc Pederson, Mitch Haniger, Sean Manaea, and paying them along with a host of other 30+ year olds?

 

As far I can tell they aren't rebuilding. They are "waiting to spend" and have been for a couple years.

 

I agree they aren't good.

 

Farhan Zaidi is fence sitting. He's trying to run a payroll outside the top 10, sneak into the playoffs, and get lucky in classic SFG fashion.

 

Are they waiting for prospects? They have a handful of good ones but I am not sure it's a deep/elite system or anything. Harrison looks like Tiedemann; Matos and Luciano need a couple more years of seasoning. Bailey looks alright.

[BTS]

Then why are they signing Joc Pederson, Mitch Haniger, Sean Manaea, and paying them along with a host of other 30+ year olds?

 

As far I can tell they aren't rebuilding. They are "waiting to spend" and have been for a couple years.

 

I agree they aren't good.

 

Farhan Zaidi is fence sitting. He's trying to run a payroll outside the top 10, sneak into the playoffs, and get lucky in classic SFG fashion.

 

Are they waiting for prospects? They have a handful of good ones but I am not sure it's a deep/elite system or anything.

 

Fence sitting is a good way to put it. Seems like he's trying to get by on low-risk 2-3 year deals for OK vets and fluke into a few playoff appearances while collecting young talent. It hasn't worked because the prospects have mostly failed: Bart sucks, Ramos has cratered in AAA, Matos had a worst-case 2022, even Luciano was just OK last year.

[Pendleton]

Then why are they signing Joc Pederson, Mitch Haniger, Sean Manaea, and paying them along with a host of other 30+ year olds?

 

As far I can tell they aren't rebuilding. They are "waiting to spend" and have been for a couple years.

 

I agree they aren't good.

 

Farhan Zaidi is fence sitting. He's trying to run a payroll outside the top 10, sneak into the playoffs, and get lucky in classic SFG fashion.

 

Are they waiting for prospects? They have a handful of good ones but I am not sure it's a deep/elite system or anything. Harrison looks like Tiedemann; Matos and Luciano need a couple more years of seasoning. Bailey looks alright.

 

Not a perfect comparison but they remind me a bit of the Jays in the pre Bautista years. They'd pick away at trying to contend with some decent upper mid level FA adds but never had the sense that they were more than a fringe playoff contender.

[connorp]

There’s not really much motivation at all to tank in mlb. #12 probably has probably gotten similar historical value to #5.

Why put a terrible team on the field and risk losing more casuals and having to try to win them back later on.

Again, s***** teams also are going to take a hit in franchise value. Never really got the PIT/FL model other than basically the owner was running it purely to put money in their pocket

[connorp]

Well I guess there was some wisdom in completely tanking to pick 1 or 2

[Laika]

There’s not really much motivation at all to tank in mlb. #12 probably has probably gotten similar historical value to #5.

Why put a terrible team on the field and risk losing more casuals and having to try to win them back later on.

Again, s***** teams also are going to take a hit in franchise value. Never really got the PIT/FL model other than basically the owner was running it purely to put money in their pocket

 

Nobody is saying they should tank

 

But they should piss or get off the pot

 

Sign Correa TODAY or else trade at least a few of the old but decent players and focus on 2024 or 2025

[connorp]

You guys are just so used to Bluejays being like, “we aren’t making the playoffs in all likelihood, so why spend anything”

First Round positioning really hasn’t meant much for them

[Laika]

You guys are just so used to Bluejays being like, “we aren’t making the playoffs in all likelihood, so why spend anything”

First Round positioning really hasn’t meant much for them

 

what

[connorp]

Nobody is saying they should tank

 

But they should piss or get off the pot

 

Sign Correa TODAY or else trade at least a few of the old but decent players and focus on 2024 or 2025

 

I just explained to you. Even if you’re not a playoff team, why not still be competitive at least.

[connorp]

what

 

What’s hard to decipher there? Didn’t you pass some kind of complex exam?

When if not a playoff team, why not use up an extra $20-30 million or something to the payroll if it can win you more games and put a better product on the field

[Laika]

I just explained to you. Even if you’re not a playoff team, why not still be competitive at least.

 

Mate they project for less wins than the O's and Marlins. Barely more than the Pirates.

 

But this has nothing to do with final standings and everything to do with resource allocation. $20M wasted on Joc Pederson could just be invested in your minor league development system.

 

Or to bring in actually good players like Carlos Correa

[Terminator]

Zaidi’s fence sitting has been pretty damn good so far. They won 107 games and the division two years ago. Was a bit fluky and not sustainable but it was impressive nonetheless.

 

I agree that they should def be trying to add a star player in FA though. With Zaidi’s ability to add via dumpster diving, an anchor to the lineup like Correa would be a really good match and would let them compete for WC3 at least most years.

[Laika]

The single point is just that Zaidi is a cuck if he does not sign Correa. That's all I am saying.

[Terminator]

Do the Giants have anything they’d give us for Jansen?

[connorp]

Mate they project for less wins than the O's and Marlins. Barely more than the Pirates.

 

But this has nothing to do with final standings and everything to do with resource allocation. $20M wasted on Joc Pederson could just be invested in your minor league development system.

 

Or to bring in actually good players like Carlos Correa

 

Give your head a shake. That $20m is going to sit in the bank. Whatever they were doing with development is what they’ll continue doing.

 

Anyways, it seems they’re in on the big names.