Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Jimcanuck]

No Rolen?

[John_Havok]

No Rolen?

 

Yep, forgot Rolen. 2 of the aforementioned 4 guys plus Rolen.

 

If there's wasn't a 10 players limit I'd have all his guys picked plus Rolen, A-rod, Manny, Helton and Jones.

[Brownie19]

I've been reading an old Cooperstown book to my youngest son (6). It includes a 2 page summary of players inducted into the baseball HOF and is a great way for me to introduce the history of them game to him. The stories include when the player was induced and often includes what % of the votes he received. What I find baffling is this old school tradition of not voting players in unanimously. Roberto Clemente dies in a plane crash while en route to deliver aid to earthquake victims in Nicaragua - they agree to waive the 5 year waiting period and hold a special vote for him - and he only gets 93% of the votes? 31 *******s vote against inducting him?

 

What a f***ing joke.

[The Cats Ass]

I've been reading an old Cooperstown book to my youngest son (6). It includes a 2 page summary of players inducted into the baseball HOF and is a great way for me to introduce the history of them game to him. The stories include when the player was induced and often includes what % of the votes he received. What I find baffling is this old school tradition of not voting players in unanimously. Roberto Clemente dies in a plane crash while en route to deliver aid to earthquake victims in Nicaragua - they agree to waive the 5 year waiting period and hold a special vote for him - and he only gets 93% of the votes? 31 *******s vote against inducting him?

 

What a f***ing joke.

 

You got that right. Only player to get in unanimously is a relief pitcher. The other player closest (missed by 1 vote) didn't even finish his career in the top 5 at his position. Both were Yankees though.

[Brownie19]

You got that right. Only player to get in unanimously is a relief pitcher. The other player closest (missed by 1 vote) didn't even finish his career in the top 5 at his position. Both were Yankees though.

 

At least it looks like we're moving towards a world where we eliminate this stupid old school unwritten law. Babe Ruth was part of the first group of people ever inducted and even he didn't get voted in unanimously. Goes to show you there have and will always be morons amongst us.

[John_Havok]

Was listening to MLB network radio on my way back to work today and Nitkowski and Spillborgs were talking about steroids. I don't recall which one said which, but one of them said he had teammates that used, were all open about it, they were great friends at the time and remain to this day, and he would gladly play on their team and go out to compete to win every day, but he would never vote for them to get into the hall of fame.

 

I couldn't think of a more hypocritical thing to say. They're good enough to be teammates, tight and close friends, but... nope, wouldn't vote for them if they were eligible to be in the hall. Also said he knows players used ampethemines and other things in earlier eras and said they should only be non HOFers if they were caught.

 

There wasn't even testing back then for virtually anything, so... how would they get caught?

 

Just, nonsensical garbage.

[The_DH]

Was listening to MLB network radio on my way back to work today and Nitkowski and Spillborgs were talking about steroids. I don't recall which one said which, but one of them said he had teammates that used, were all open about it, they were great friends at the time and remain to this day, and he would gladly play on their team and go out to compete to win every day, but he would never vote for them to get into the hall of fame.

 

I couldn't think of a more hypocritical thing to say. They're good enough to be teammates, tight and close friends, but... nope, wouldn't vote for them if they were eligible to be in the hall. Also said he knows players used ampethemines and other things in earlier eras and said they should only be non HOFers if they were caught.

 

There wasn't even testing back then for virtually anything, so... how would they get caught?

 

Just, nonsensical garbage.

 

The HOF's only purpose is to show off some good players who never had any accusations of doing anything wrong. It is a means of putting a myopic view of the game and should be treated as such.

[John_Havok]

The HOF's only purpose is to show off some good players who never had any accusations of doing anything wrong.

 

If that's the case then it should be a lot smaller than it is now. Ty Cobb was one of the most despicable human beings to ever play the game, and he got more HOF votes than Ruth. There's a laundry list of players in the Hall Of Fame who were complete douchebag humans and cheaters in the game but they're all still there.

 

That's probably what pisses me off the most. The precedent is already set that you don't have to be a saint to get in, as long as you excelled on the field, but now the writers are pretending like it's their holy purpose in life to protect the sanctity of a Hall of Fame that's already riddled with scumbags.

 

 

And yes, i got the sarcasm. Just wanted to rant a bit.

Edited January 25, 2022 by John_Havok

[wilko]

The HOF is a joke if Bonds/Clemens don't get in. Baseball was dying after the strike in the 90's... Steroids saved baseball! A syringe should be on the ballet.

[John_Havok]

The HOF is a joke if Bonds/Clemens don't get in. Baseball was dying after the strike in the 90's... Steroids saved baseball! A syringe should be on the ballet.

 

Should have it's own display in the Hall under glass with the simple designation of "savior"

[John_Havok]

Just watching the start of the HOF announcemnet show... i didnt think i could be more impressed with Bonds, then they said " From age 34-42, his stats are better than many current Hall of Famer's entire careers."

 

Just... put the guy in already. He's the best there has ever been. Stop being whiney ****s and get him in.

[John_Havok]

And it's official, the Hall of Fame for MLB in 2022 welcomes.... David Ortiz.

 

That's it.

 

Complete joke of an institution.

[wilko]

And it's official, the Hall of Fame for MLB in 2022 welcomes.... David Ortiz.

 

That's it.

 

Complete joke of an institution.

 

Ridiculous.

[The_DH]

If that's the case then it should be a lot smaller than it is now. Ty Cobb was one of the most despicable human beings to ever play the game, and he got more HOF votes than Ruth. There's a laundry list of players in the Hall Of Fame who were complete douchebag humans and cheaters in the game but they're all still there.

 

That's probably what pisses me off the most. The precedent is already set that you don't have to be a saint to get in, as long as you excelled on the field, but now the writers are pretending like it's their holy purpose in life to protect the sanctity of a Hall of Fame that's already riddled with scumbags.

 

 

And yes, i got the sarcasm. Just wanted to rant a bit.

 

I totally understand you. Ty Cobb is in the Hall but Pete Rose is denied. It's why I'd never go visit the HOF or have anything to do with it. It's a sham.

[John_Havok]

I totally understand you. Ty Cobb is in the Hall but Pete Rose is denied. It's why I'd never go visit the HOF or have anything to do with it. It's a sham.

 

Rose is really the only one I understand not being there, but only because he willingly accepted a lifetime ban from baseball. I would still put him there without hesitation but that he willingly took the settlement that included the ban, I accept that.

 

Nobody on the current ballot was banned. The ones with the requisite numbers should be in.

[The_DH]

Rose is really the only one I understand not being there, but only because he willingly accepted a lifetime ban from baseball. I would still put him there without hesitation but that he willingly took the settlement that included the ban, I accept that.

 

Nobody on the current ballot was banned. The ones with the requisite numbers should be in.

 

Someone posted a little while ago with respect to instructions given to voters and one of the instructions is that (and I paraphrase) the player has to be a good person and so on. So forget it, it's not about being a great player. Stats plus/minus image = votability.

[John_Havok]

Someone posted a little while ago with respect to instructions given to voters and one of the instructions is that (and I paraphrase) the player has to be a good person and so on. So forget it, it's not about being a great player. Stats plus/minus image = votability.

 

I understand the character clause being there. It's been there since the 10th year of Hall of Fame eligibility. Technically, people can use that to argue as to why Ty Cobb got in, because there was no specific "character clause" for his vote. However, with precedent set by the BBWAA of the past since that clause was added to the consideration for the Hall, anything short of committing murder while on the field of play is not sufficient to invoke that clause.

 

In fact, most baseball historians seem to think that the character clause was meant to help get people IN to the Hall, not keep them out. Kind of a "he's such a great human and was great for baseball, but didn't quite have the numbers" clause.

[Abomination]

I understand the character clause being there. It's been there since the 10th year of Hall of Fame eligibility. Technically, people can use that to argue as to why Ty Cobb got in, because there was no specific "character clause" for his vote. However, with precedent set by the BBWAA of the past since that clause was added to the consideration for the Hall, anything short of committing murder while on the field of play is not sufficient to invoke that clause.

 

In fact, most baseball historians seem to think that the character clause was meant to help get people IN to the Hall, not keep them out. Kind of a "he's such a great human and was great for baseball, but didn't quite have the numbers" clause.

 

Next argument: Should Randy Johnson get in after murdering a dove on the field?

[John_Havok]

Next argument: Should Randy Johnson get in after murdering a dove on the field?

 

Best commanded pitch of the last century. Better than Maddux could ever do.

[Spanky99]

The HOF is a joke if Bonds/Clemens don't get in. Baseball was dying after the strike in the 90's... Steroids saved baseball! A syringe should be on the ballet.

 

lol... I'm dead!

[Grant77]

So Bonds and Clemens are not in the Hall of Fame because they used steroids when they were not against the rules.

 

However, David Ortiz is in the Hall of Fame because he used steroids when they were against the rules and got caught.

 

His case was borderline at best from a statistical perspective. This is even more baffling than Harold Baines to be honest.

[Spanky99]

And it's official, the Hall of Fame for MLB in 2022 welcomes.... David Ortiz.

 

That's it.

 

Complete joke of an institution.

 

lol... pathetic.

[Spanky99]

So Bonds and Clemens are not in the Hall of Fame because they used steroids when they were not against the rules.

 

However, David Ortiz is in the Hall of Fame because he used steroids when they were against the rules and got caught.

 

His case was borderline at best from a statistical perspective. This is even more baffling than Harold Baines to be honest.

 

Agreed, first ballot no less... embarrassing.

[TBJ12]

What a f***ing joke. Ortiz with 51 fWAR over Bonds at 164 fWAR. It's not like Ortiz was a saint, nobody gets shot in a club unprovoked. f*** the BBWA!

[Jays24]

Bonds and Clemens not being in the Hall of Fame is a complete joke. You might as well tear that building down. Ortiz got in because he's a media darling while Bonds/Clemens were not.

 

You should not be in a position of power if you make decisions based on this. Both Bonds/Clemens guys were BEASTS before their supposed roid usage and were easily on track to make the Hall of Fame anyways.

 

And of all people to get in is the guy who should be a poster child for Roids. Ortiz was a complete scrub and then got good out of nowhere. It's not a coincidence that he got busted for roids during that time.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Jays24

[Spanky99]

Clemens.

[glory]

You know this is bad when athletes/media from other sports are talking about how ridiculous this is. I’m actually fine with Ortiz making it but not including Bonds is not going to help the league with fans. Hopefully he and Clemens get in via that committee that voted Baines in.

[thatoneguy]

No Hall of Fame that has f*cking Cap Anson in it should judge anyone on their character.

[Dick_Pole]

I wish Clemens was black just so the media could put a racist spin on it. Usually I dislike that kind of narrative but the BBWAA deserves to be shamed in any way possible for this embarrassing sham.

[Spanky99]

I wish Clemens was black just so the media could put a racist spin on it. Usually I dislike that kind of narrative but the BBWAA deserves to be shamed in any way possible for this embarrassing sham.

 

There was this black dude on MLBN he stood up for past congressional thoughts of Writers, but he hammered them here on not letting in as he said the 2 best players in recent history. Loved him doing that on air. I don't get where you're going with the if he were black in this situation? lol