General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[John_Havok]

From the sounds of it, he also has never seemed interested in working with the coaching. Scouts his own game. Calls his own game. I doubt he has a lot of interest in Pete Walker helping him with something mechanical.

 

It could be something as simple as adding the sinker back in just to give them something else to think about. YOu can see by the numbers it's never been a pitch that gets great results for him, but it might be something that allows the offspeeds to play up again. Also could be a sequencing problem where hitters are really picking up on his tendencies

[Laika]

From the sounds of it, he also has never seemed interested in working with the coaching. Scouts his own game. Calls his own game. I doubt he has a lot of interest in Pete Walker helping him with something mechanical.

 

Not sure it's fair to say he has never been interested.

 

a) there is a language barrier

he has never needed help until right now

 

As jimbo says a good number of these command guys are getting blown up right now vs their career numbers or projections. Ryu, Kyle Hendricks, Keuchel... Zach Davies. Yarbrough.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Laika

[John_Havok]

Not sure it's fair to see he has never been interested.

 

a) there is a language barrier

he has never needed help until right now

 

As jimbo says a good number of these command guys are getting blown up right now vs their career numbers or projections. Ryu, Kyle Hendricks, Keuchel... Zach Davies. Yarbrough.

 

It just seems like a very fine line these guys have to walk. When you have no velocity, you have basically pitch perfectly with both location and sequencing due to not having the margin of error that velocity gives you.

[Laika]

It just seems like a very fine line these guys have to walk. When you have no velocity, you have basically pitch perfectly with both location and sequencing due to not having the margin of error that velocity gives you.

 

yeah it could be as simple as a lot of these guys relied on sticky stuff for their pinpoint command of certain pitches, or that little bit of extra movement/finish that is hard to quantify by basic stuff like spin rate

[John_Havok]

yeah it could be as simple as a lot of these guys relied on sticky stuff for their pinpoint command of certain pitches, or that little bit of extra movement/finish that is hard to quantify by basic stuff like spin rate

 

Yeah. really the only trends identifiable from the numbers i posted was that his whiff rate is down, his 4 seam usage is up, sinker is non-existent. Of course we're just arm-chairing it here, but seems like he should be throwing fewer 4 seamers, more curveballs at least in the short term. His fastball is getting killed this year and it's usage is way above what it normally is.

[max silver]

You’re not looking for debate, you’re looking at a few numbers, have a pre-formed bias, including a very healthy dose of recency bias and trying to somehow prove that Matz is a better pitcher than Ryu.

 

It’s laughable. It’s not worthy of debate.

 

Ryu is a better pitcher, currently getting worse results largely due to fluctuations in batted ball luck outside of his control. Matz is a worse pitcher, currently getting better results largely due to fluctuations in batter ball luck beyond his control.

 

I 100% place more weight based on recent results when comparing the relative merits of Ryu and Matz. You can call it recency bias all you want, but when in the thick of a playoff race I don't see how you can continue to hold your breath and hope for the best when a pitcher is looking like Tanner Roark 2.0. You come across like Charlie in his defence of Dolis earlier in the year when he stated that he was good in 2020 so therefore he has to be good again this season.

 

I see you seem to have come to your senses but maybe in the future you don't need to be such a dick when you are spouting nonsense opinions such as these.

[John_Havok]

I 100% place more weight based on recent results when comparing the relative merits of Ryu and Matz. You can call it recency bias all you want, but when in the thick of a playoff race I don't see how you can continue to hold your breath and hope for the best when a pitcher is looking like Tanner Roark 2.0. You come across like Charlie in his defence of Dolis earlier in the year when he stated that he was good in 2020 so therefore he has to be good again this season.

 

I see you seem to have come to your senses but maybe in the future you don't need to be such a dick when you are spouting nonsense opinions such as these.

 

Are you ill?

[Laika]

[Abomination]

 

From his other posts, it sounds like he intends to follow through if he loses. Respect.

[John_Havok]

 

Who is that clown?

[max silver]

Are you ill?

 

Nope fit as a fiddle.

 

Are you honestly dense enough to continue to hold the position that Ryu pitching more effectively that Matz is recently? Going back to my original point I stated that Ryu is the 5th best starter on the Jays right now. I made no declaration of what the future holds for each pitcher moving forward, but for you to be so outright dismissive if not downright hostile still has me rather puzzled.

 

By the way I'm still waiting for you to somehow prove your point that Ryu has been unlucky with his batted ball results lately. I see a ton of hard contact with many of these hard hit balls leaving the park.

[Stangstag]

From his other posts, it sounds like he intends to follow through if he loses. Respect.

 

How on earth are the Jays “pretenders”?

 

They have significantly fewer wins compared to their projected pythagorean wins

[Spanky99]

Ryu has picked a bad time to suck. But what’s changed? He seems healthy. What V he has is there. If it’s lost command on location thats probably correctable. Arm speed on change? Issue is right now there is no room to throw out a starter who is shelled while they work through it. Hard to have any faith in him now. After the lead off walk to Sano last night it was all downhill.

 

I mentioned it yesterday, it's location/command. Too many mistakes over the plate, he should be fine as there hasn't been much change on his profile, I think, lol.

[Spanky99]

 

lol... what a dummy. And he's verified?

[Spanky99]

How on earth are the Jays “pretenders”?

 

They have significantly fewer wins compared to their projected pythagorean wins

 

I guess to be fair, Toronto were 5.5 games back of NY and 5 back of the Bosox on Sept 4th when he made that tweet. Oops...

 

Actually after reading through his twitter, guy's a damn troll idiot O's fan living in Australia, what a turd!

Edited September 19, 2021 by Spanky99

[Eat My Shatkins]

I guess to be fair, Toronto were 5.5 games back of NY and 5 back of the Bosox on Sept 4th when he made that tweet. Oops...

 

Actually after reading through his twitter, guy's a damn troll idiot O's fan living in Australia, what a turd!

 

He's obviously a biased f***ing moron.

 

Even back on the 4th the Jays had a +120 run differential. Anybody with half a brain and no bias against the Jays would know they weren't "pretenders". They were a team with a f*** ton less wins than they should have had at that point. Still are, even after the hot streak since.

[intentional wok]

I guess to be fair, Toronto were 5.5 games back of NY and 5 back of the Bosox on Sept 4th when he made that tweet. Oops...

 

Actually after reading through his twitter, guy's a damn troll idiot O's fan living in Australia, what a turd!

 

And obviously needs a history lesson too. It was Encarnacion, not Bautista, who abruptly ended the last meaningful game the O's ever played.

 

Other good choices: Buck Showalter, Ubaldo Jimenez.

 

Bad choice because he didn't appear in that game: Zach Britton

 

More history: the O's are 247-447 since the 2016 Wild Card game.

[Spanky99]

[TwistedLogic]

Ryu taking a break is probably the best thing for this team right now. Guy's been absolutely ass lately.

 

[Jonn]

They really should have just skipped his start but this works as well.

[TwistedLogic]

Also, if he's been dealing with pain in his neck, that could definitely be a cause for bad control.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Also, if he's been dealing with pain in his neck, that could definitely be a cause for bad control.

 

Neck strain probably caused by snapping his head around to catch a glimpse of the ball before going over the fence.

OK, all joking aside, here's hoping this gets him back on track.

[connorp]

Or “pain in the neck” could be the team having a sense of humor in their injury report. First Biggio, now Ryu go to the DL with performance issues

[Sammy225]

Didn't know where to post this but tomorrow might be tough as we face Shane Baz. Good looking prospect but it's hard to face a new guy that you don't have much on

[Jimcanuck]

Didn't know where to post this but tomorrow might be tough as we face Shane Baz. Good looking prospect but it's hard to face a new guy that you don't have much on

 

Tougher for the new guy

[intentional wok]

Didn't know where to post this but tomorrow might be tough as we face Shane Baz. Good looking prospect but it's hard to face a new guy that you don't have much on

 

I forgot the Rays also got this guy in the Archer trade. Pittsburgh traded what could be a core trio for Chris Archer (who himself is back on the Rays).

[Sammy225]

Tougher for the new guy

 

I always thought it would be harder on the hitters that don't have much info on him. Hope I'm wrong

[mellowgold]

I guess I this means Hatch on Wednesday? We only need someone in the third game against the Rays and the middle Baltimore game.

[Laika]

I always thought it would be harder on the hitters that don't have much info on him. Hope I'm wrong

 

These things seem to go one of two ways a lot of the time:

 

- the rookie can't throw strikes or finish his pitches (nerves) and doesn't last long

- the rookie has nerves of steel and the hitters are screwed because they've never seen him

[43211234]

Springer has got to sit a couple games.

 

Doing nothing with that bum knee right now.