General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[Laika]

Was he AA's last first round pick?

 

Not quite.

 

Zeuch was 2016.

AA left before 2016.

But Brian Parker was scouting director in 2016 for the Zeuch pick. Parker was fired two months after that draft.

Shapiro and Atkins basically let the old scouting group complete the 2016 draft and then purged the department. And thank f***ing god they did.

[G-Snarls]

Not quite.

 

Zeuch was 2016.

AA left before 2016.

But Brian Parker was scouting director in 2016 for the Zeuch pick. Parker was fired two months after that draft.

Shapiro and Atkins basically let the old scouting group complete the 2016 draft and then purged the department. And thank f***ing god they did.

 

Thank you

 

Good stuff to know

[Brownie19]

Not quite.

 

Zeuch was 2016.

AA left before 2016.

But Brian Parker was scouting director in 2016 for the Zeuch pick. Parker was fired two months after that draft.

Shapiro and Atkins basically let the old scouting group complete the 2016 draft and then purged the department. And thank f***ing god they did.

 

All except Tinnish correct?

[RustyTrombone]

Zeuch never showed good secondary stuff so I don't think he has the bag to be a good reliever. He is suited for one thing and that is chewing up innings with groundballs

 

Idk....I think he could have been a right mayza. Mayza throws a nasty sinker at 95 and a decent slider nothing special but good enough to get whiffs against same handed batters and Zuech had that cutter type pitch at 88 mph that got some whiffs. Righites wouldn't have much if a chance vs Zoinks sinker if he was able to consistently sit 95 with it. His command was always good enough as a starter, so it's more than good enough as a reliever. Oh well it's not really a move worth crying about at the end of the day.

[saskjayfan]

Not quite.

 

Zeuch was 2016.

AA left before 2016.

But Brian Parker was scouting director in 2016 for the Zeuch pick. Parker was fired two months after that draft.

Shapiro and Atkins basically let the old scouting group complete the 2016 draft and then purged the department. And thank f***ing god they did.

 

That's the same scouting department that fought to get Bo Bichette. The same scouting department that wanted to take Bo Bichette at 57 instead of J.B. Woodman and did not get their way. Bo thank god was still there at 66, but we could have lost him because of J.B Woodman. So let's at least thank Brian Parker for that one.

 

Brian Parker wasn't without a job for long. The Dodgers picked him up not long after leaving the Jays. I wouldn't call the Dodgers a bad organization.

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/simmons-the-fight-to-bring-bo-bichette-to-the-blue-jays

[saskjayfan]

wonder if the greatest beard in baseball might get a call up in favor of Barnes or Dolis. There may not be a whole lot of difference, but the beard clearly gives him the edge. Axford can be our Hawkins. Cimber and Richards are the Bo schultz type players. We just have to trade for our big bat upgrade in Nelson Cruz and have the Nationals go on a losing streak so we can trade for Scherzer and the similarities to 2015 would be remarkable. At that point you'd just let the 11 game win streaks begin.

[TwistedLogic]

Was he AA's last first round pick?

 

He was Atkins' first pick.

 

Not quite.

 

Zeuch was 2016.

AA left before 2016.

But Brian Parker was scouting director in 2016 for the Zeuch pick. Parker was fired two months after that draft.

Shapiro and Atkins basically let the old scouting group complete the 2016 draft and then purged the department. And thank f***ing god they did.

 

That's definitely a fair way to look at it but, if we're following this line of reasoning, a regime that isn't accountable for the Zeuch pick also can't get credit for the Bichette and Biggio picks, along with anyone else in that draft.

[Laika]

That's the same scouting department that fought to get Bo Bichette. The same scouting department that wanted to take Bo Bichette at 57 instead of J.B. Woodman and did not get their way. Bo thank god was still there at 66, but we could have lost him because of J.B Woodman. So let's at least thank Brian Parker for that one.

 

Brian Parker wasn't without a job for long. The Dodgers picked him up not long after leaving the Jays. I wouldn't call the Dodgers a bad organization.

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/simmons-the-fight-to-bring-bo-bichette-to-the-blue-jays

 

He's been a cross checker since he left Toronto. Pretty big step down the ladder. That's like going from managing a restaurant to bussing tables.

 

The Bichette and Biggio draft was a positive conclusion to a pretty bad overall draft record.

[TwistedLogic]

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/simmons-the-fight-to-bring-bo-bichette-to-the-blue-jays

 

Thanks for the link, had no idea the old guys had to fight Shatkins so hard to get Bichette. Thank god they got through to them.

 

Would have been brutal to find out how badly people in the Jays front office wanted him while watching him come up with some other team.

 

Pretty funny how the quintessential pick that gets Shatkins' draft record so much shine was one they fought hard not to make.

[glory]

More and more I find myself not wanting the Jays to trade any of Kirk, Moreno, Martin, Groshans or Martinez. Let them work their way up and onto the MLB roster over the next 1-2 seasons. There is room for all of them if they make it IMO.

 

Also not wanting to see them give up any significant assets for short term rentals.

 

One guy I want to see them get is definitely Kimbrel as he is a beast, would be here for next season too and his contract could make him cheaper to acquire possibly. I don't know how badly the Jays want to spend $16 million on a reliever though. They certainly haven't spent big on the bullpen yet during their tenure.

 

This front office hasn't traded prospects often. The best one they've moved is probably Kendall Williams (unless I'm forgetting someone) who is still very young and far away. I don't think there's any chance they move a top prospect at this stage. My guess is they'll trade for a rental like Jon Gray or someone like that, which should cost something, but not a top prospect.

[Spanky99]

I don't even understand this post man, you drinking? Never said he wasn't.

 

How can you not understand that post? You mentioned "to be fair it's 1 HR", he's hit 34 on the season. f*** off with the drinking ********, it's lame.

[Laika]

Thanks for the link, had no idea the old guys had to fight Shatkins so hard to get Bichette. Thank god they got through to them.

 

Would have been brutal to find out how badly people in the Jays front office wanted him while watching him come up with some other team.

 

Pretty funny how the quintessential pick that gets Shatkins' draft record so much shine was one they fought hard not to make.

 

This is a Steve Simmons article in the Sun, designed to take an unsupported cheap shot at the current regime. There is nothing of substance in the article. He probably talked to one jaded scout fired by Toronto a couple of years prior.

 

The way drafts work is that every pick will have an advocacy group within the org. The pick may be hotly debated. Bottom line is that the Blue Jays picked Bichette. Objectively, picking him over Woodman would have been a mistake because they got Bichette lower.

[Benito]

This is a Steve Simmons article in the Sun, designed to take an unsupported cheap shot at the current regime. There is nothing of substance in the article. He probably talked to one jaded scout fired by Toronto a couple of years prior.

 

The way drafts work is that every pick will have an advocacy group within the org. The pick may be hotly debated. Bottom line is that the Blue Jays picked Bichette. Objectively, picking him over Woodman would have been a mistake because they got Bichette lower.

 

Exactly this. I also find this part from the article dubious: "What Shapiro and Atkins didn’t want — and were adamant about it — were high-school players. They especially didn’t want high-school position players." The insinuation here is that this regime has an extreme bias towards high-school players, which I don't see. They've generally picked the bpa based on their internal evaluation and rankings.

[wilko]

This is a Steve Simmons article in the Sun, designed to take an unsupported cheap shot at the current regime. There is nothing of substance in the article. He probably talked to one jaded scout fired by Toronto a couple of years prior.

 

The way drafts work is that every pick will have an advocacy group within the org. The pick may be hotly debated. Bottom line is that the Blue Jays picked Bichette. Objectively, picking him over Woodman would have been a mistake because they got Bichette lower.

 

If you see Steve Simmons just stop reading.

[Laika]

Exactly this. I also find this part from the article dubious: "What Shapiro and Atkins didn’t want — and were adamant about it — were high-school players. They especially didn’t want high-school position players." The insinuation here is that this regime has an extreme bias towards high-school players, which I don't see. They've generally picked the bpa based on their internal evaluation and rankings.

 

And it's just demonstrably false if you look at their drafts. They have selected their fair share of high school players with high picks. Pitchers and hitters.

[Ryu In My House]

So it sounds as if, and I realize this is not new news, that Pearson has a sports hernia and will probably get surgery in the offseason to correct it. What I think that means is he cannot make it worse, and any discomfort he feels is just part of the situation until the offseason. So for the Jays now, we may have this guy in the 'pen like 2015's Aaron Sanchez. This is really the best possible scenario, given his nagging injury. I am sure he wouldn't be allowed to play if he can make it worse. What a boost for the bullpen.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-hope-pearson-can-reliever-option-near-term/

[Ray]

The reason we picked Woodman first was because we essentially had a deal with Bichette in place and it made sense to pick someone who might not be there at 66 before him. I’m pretty sure the Jays valued Pearson higher than Warmoth, but they still picked Warmoth first. Same strategy there. If you have 2 picks in close proximity, it makes sense to cut a deal and take a guy before him to get someone who might not be there later.

 

Anyways, Bichette was only going to sign with a handful of teams that weren’t going to tinker with his swing, the Jays being one of them.

 

Also lol at Steve Simmons. Literally starts that article with “You may not know the name J.B. Woodman, but he is what can happen when process and charts take precedence over old-school scouting in baseball.” He was out to get Shatkins from the very beginning of that article. And then also eschews the fact that Brian Parker is with the Dodgers and another guy is with the Rays. As if the Dodgers and Rays aren’t the most process driven orgs in the league.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Ray

[Ray]

Alternative spin: Ross Atkins and Mark Shapiro question their scouts to make sure their process is correct, find out how passionate they are about Bichette, and ultimately listen to their expertise and let them pick their guy as opposed to going over their heads and picking Romero 2.0 over Tulowitzki in a drunken power trip.

 

But yeah, they were definitely the bad guys here.

[Brownie19]

Steve Simmons is a f***ing idiot.

[G-Snarls]

Steve Simmons is a f***ing idiot.

 

How does he have a job "writing"?!?!

[Krylian]

How does he have a job "writing"?!?!

 

Because he stirs up s*** and then people rant, Tweet, bitch about him. It's all about clicks. He creates a lot of buzz (never for anything intelligent).

[Jimcanuck]

So it sounds as if, and I realize this is not new news, that Pearson has a sports hernia and will probably get surgery in the offseason to correct it. What I think that means is he cannot make it worse, and any discomfort he feels is just part of the situation until the offseason. So for the Jays now, we may have this guy in the 'pen like 2015's Aaron Sanchez. This is really the best possible scenario, given his nagging injury. I am sure he wouldn't be allowed to play if he can make it worse. What a boost for the bullpen.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-hope-pearson-can-reliever-option-near-term/

 

Uh not sure about that. Sports hernia is a tearing of the soft tissues connecting to the pelvic bone. It could be made worse. What the team said is it can be "managed conservatively", I assume by shorter bullpen outings the risk is reduced, but not eliminated. And maybe additionally, something like a shortened stride to the plate.

 

I'm not sure a sports hernia can be "corrected" by surgery, any procedure would be to help the tearing to fully heal.

 

Sports hernia is poorly named and nothing like a hernia, where an organ is displaced and can be fully corrected by surgery.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Jimcanuck

[P2F]

How does he have a job "writing"?!?!

 

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Because he stirs up s*** and then people rant, Tweet, bitch about him. It's all about clicks. He creates a lot of buzz (never for anything intelligent).

 

you mean like every talking head on sports radio?

[Krylian]

you mean like every talking head on sports radio?

 

If you don't think Simmons is in his own class you're being disingenuous.

[bronson44]

If anyone's interested, use code "HOME" to access the pre-sale for Jays upcoming 10 game homestand.

 

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/tickets/rogers-centre-presale?partnerId=zh-20210721-440606-TOR-1-A&qid&utm_id=zh-20210721-440606-TOR-1-A&bt_ee=GzW3aNZ%2BP18oFHc8DH7BdIOhtbWxTq2RGaRh3YHLK0Roy%2B7QSdKBQy6%2BJ8zQa7Sp&bt_ts=1626877689297

[Spanky99]

If you don't think Simmons is in his own class you're being disingenuous.

 

He sits right along with Stephen A. Smith.

[InvincibleTiger]

14-23 against current AL playoff teams (Red Sox, Rays, Athletics, White Sox, Astros). Says it all.

[Spanky99]

 

[Krylian]

Will we see Merrweather pitch another game this season?