Around Baseball 2021

[Brownie19]

Soto and Vlad in the same lineup. Would probably top Manny and Ortiz.

 

Ohtani/Trout/Rendon is up there too (when healthy) - but yes. Soto/Vlad is Ruth/Gehrig level s***.

[glory]

Soto is a damn stud. There is so much talk about Ohtani/Vlad/Tatis this season, and it is well deserved, but what Soto is doing is absurd. His next 3 years of arb will be interesting to follow. He made $8.5m this season in arb1. He was super 2 so he has 3 more years left. My guess is arb years 3 and 4 will resemble a FA contract if he's not extended by then. Hopefully the Nats are actually good over the next 3 years and don't 'LA Angels' his remaining years of control.

[G-Snarls]

Tony LaRussa first manager to manage a post season team in 5 different decades

 

That's pretty impressive longevity

[keggy]

So Juan Soto is basically the greatest hitter of all time right?

 

Considering that pitching now is as good as its ever been

 

No not even close, because if you don't account for era, we inevitably conclude that Randall Grichuk is a better hitter than Babe Ruth, and that doesn't help anybody.

 

Soto is good enough to start having the conversation about him amongst the all time greats though. At 22, that's insane.

[Jimcanuck]

No not even close, because if you don't account for era, we inevitably conclude that Randall Grichuk is a better hitter than Babe Ruth, and that doesn't help anybody.

 

wat

[Jimcanuck]

Nicky Lopez 4.4 WAR

Freddie Freeman 4.4 WAR

Manny Machado 4.3 WAR

 

Seems about right.

[Laika]

Soto is phenomenal but so far he is just in that Bryce Harper, Frank Thomas bucket. Not sure how you label it but it doesn't say "greatest hitter ever".

[keggy]

wat

 

If you dropped a random college athlete in the 1900 Olympics, he'd be setting world records. A modern scrub like Grichuk would probably hit 65 homers against old timey shitballers.

[FantasyNewb]

Lux is hitting .432 with 1.134 OPS in 13 games since being recalled. Is he no longer a bust?

[Olerud363]

Soto is phenomenal but so far he is just in that Bryce Harper, Frank Thomas bucket. Not sure how you label it but it doesn't say "greatest hitter ever".

 

What is more likely to happen

 

Soto, stays a .450 on base guy but increases power a tad and is a 45 homerun guy

 

Vlad stays a 45 homerun guy but increases the patience a bit and is a .450 on base guy.

[connorp]

If you dropped a random college athlete in the 1900 Olympics, he'd be setting world records. A modern scrub like Grichuk would probably hit 65 homers against old timey shitballers.

 

Baseball a little different than football and basketball in that Babe Ruth is just as physically capable to swing a bat as any player today. But no doubt you can’t just expect him to hit new era of pitching out of a time machine. All you can do is really compare talent wise relative to the era they’re in. So wRC+ is best you can do

[John_Havok]

What is more likely to happen

 

Soto, stays a .450 on base guy but increases power a tad and is a 45 homerun guy

 

Vlad stays a 45 homerun guy but increases the patience a bit and is a .450 on base guy.

 

Both are not really all that unlikely to happen, but...I'd probably lean towards Vlad walking more as pitchers just pitch around him more, plus really good hitters tend to improve their walk rates over time anyways.

[Brownie19]

Luis Roberts is really good.

 

60 games played, 3.1 WAR 160 wRC+

[G-Snarls]

Both are not really all that unlikely to happen, but...I'd probably lean towards Vlad walking more as pitchers just pitch around him more, plus really good hitters tend to improve their walk rates over time anyways.

 

I love that both are only 22 and we get to see what each can do for years to come

[Brownie19]

Soto is phenomenal but so far he is just in that Bryce Harper, Frank Thomas bucket. Not sure how you label it but it doesn't say "greatest hitter ever".

 

Who are we saying is the best hitter of all time? Ted Williams? Are we saying it's Mike Trout, who's career wRC+ is 172 - just 1 point below Bonds. Or are we going back to the 1920's to the Ironhorse and Ruth?

[BTS]

It would be super interesting to see how a dynasty draft would play out these days with the current crop of insane young talent. We should combine BBDL and BORED into one league and restart!

[connorp]

Who are we saying is the best hitter of all time? Ted Williams? Are we saying it's Mike Trout, who's career wRC+ is 172 - just 1 point below Bonds. Or are we going back to the 1920's to the Ironhorse and Ruth?

 

Bonds you kind of have to break up into 2 players. I think Player 1 Bonds (until 2000) is probably comparable to Trout- Player 2 isn’t going to be something you can compare to

[John_Havok]

Who are we saying is the best hitter of all time? Ted Williams? Are we saying it's Mike Trout, who's career wRC+ is 172 - just 1 point below Bonds. Or are we going back to the 1920's to the Ironhorse and Ruth?

 

I find these types of arguments futile for the most part. The simple facts are that every great hitter today would annihilate any great hitter of the past, simply because today's hitters play in the deepest pool of talent there has ever been and the game evolves. It's the same in any sport.

 

The only debate really is whether or not the hitters today are more dominant in their era than those of the past, and even then it's not really apples to apples given the talent pool differences.

[connorp]

I find these types of arguments futile for the most part. The simple facts are that every great hitter today would annihilate any great hitter of the past, simply because today's hitters play in the deepest pool of talent there has ever been and the game evolves. It's the same in any sport.

 

The only debate really is whether or not the hitters today are more dominant in their era than those of the past, and even then it's not really apples to apples given the talent pool differences.

 

Yeah it’s pretty futile- but I just think Mickey Mantle finds his way to the top of the pack if he comes up as a kid in this era. So don’t think you can discount their talent. There’s just no way no compare it

[Laika]

Who are we saying is the best hitter of all time? Ted Williams? Are we saying it's Mike Trout, who's career wRC+ is 172 - just 1 point below Bonds. Or are we going back to the 1920's to the Ironhorse and Ruth?

 

There are two considerations - career performance and peak performance.

 

On the latter, I like to think that anyone who can achieve or sniff a 200 wRC+ in a complete season is on the short list.

 

On career performance the bar is probably 160 wRC+.

 

Ordering the short list is for fools but Babe Ruth is the best hitter of all time.

[John_Havok]

Yeah it’s pretty futile- but I just think Mickey Mantle finds his way to the top of the pack if he comes up as a kid in this era. So don’t think you can discount their talent. There’s just no way no compare it

 

There's no way to compare it fairly. wRC+ and stats like that that rate where you are compared to league average do a decent job as a starting point, but even then, when you consider that a replacement level player now is light years better than a replacement level player in the 50's, it's still not really all that discussion worthy.

 

The game is so different today from back then. Pitching differences especially.

[keggy]

What is more likely to happen

 

Soto, stays a .450 on base guy but increases power a tad and is a 45 homerun guy

 

Vlad stays a 45 homerun guy but increases the patience a bit and is a .450 on base guy.

 

EASILY the first option. Soto's career low OBP is .400. His career OBP is .430. This includes ABs as a teenager. He hit 34 HR in his only full season before this year. Soto's power isn't going to peak at age 20.

[John_Havok]

but Babe Ruth is the best hitter of all time.

 

Best hitter compared to the peers of his era, no doubt. He was just on another planet, but as well know, when the pool of talent is low, outliers are more likely to show up.

 

Him hitting that many HR's so early in the game's history, there's really no fair way to compare that to today. He was light years ahead of his peers. That type of dominance will never be seen again in any sport.

[Scion]

Yeah it’s pretty futile- but I just think Mickey Mantle finds his way to the top of the pack if he comes up as a kid in this era. So don’t think you can discount their talent. There’s just no way no compare it

 

Anyone who didn't compete when blacks were allowed to play should just automatically be disqualified. I don't care what anyone says, you cannot be considered the best if you never went up against the dominant athletic race.

[Laika]

What is more likely to happen

 

Soto, stays a .450 on base guy but increases power a tad and is a 45 homerun guy

 

Vlad stays a 45 homerun guy but increases the patience a bit and is a .450 on base guy.

 

Both seem very possible. Soto has huge power - see the home run derby. He will tap into it at some point.

 

Vlad is so terrifying that pitcher fear could lead to some huge OBP years.

[Laika]

Best hitter compared to the peers of his era, no doubt. He was just on another planet, but as well know, when the pool of talent is low, outliers are more likely to show up.

 

Him hitting that many HR's so early in the game's history, there's really no fair way to compare that to today. He was light years ahead of his peers. That type of dominance will never be seen again in any sport.

 

Best hitter of all time, full stop. I don't want to read any of that era comparison s*** when it comes to Ruth.

[Jimcanuck]

If you dropped a random college athlete in the 1900 Olympics, he'd be setting world records. A modern scrub like Grichuk would probably hit 65 homers against old timey shitballers.

 

You said Grichuk is better than Ruth, which is absurd. FYI, Ruth was a phenomenal athlete.

 

Best hitter all time atm is between Ruth, Williams, and Bonds.

[keggy]

You said Grichuk is better than Ruth, which is absurd. FYI, Ruth was a phenomenal athlete.

 

Best hitter all time atm is between Ruth, Williams, and Bonds.

 

Babe Ruth is the greatest player of all time. Grichuk is better than Ruth if you don't account for context and era. Both of those things are true.

[Jimcanuck]

Williams:

 

Age 22 - 221 wRC+

Age 23 - 209 wRC+

Age 24 - WWII

Age 25 - WWII

Age 26 - WWII

Age 27 - 215 wRC+

Age 28 - 207 wRC+

 

Age 33 - 12 PA (Korean War)

Age 34 - 110 PA (Korean War)

 

Without the war interruptions, he would be #1 in career WAR.

[Jimcanuck]

Babe Ruth is the greatest player of all time. Grichuk is better than Ruth if you don't account for context and era. Both of those things are true.

 

Strongly disagree. Ruth had more power and WAY more hitting ability than K machine Grichuk.