Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[G-Snarls]

Never been a fan of Odorizzi

[BTS]

I don't really want Odorizzi.

[glory]

After Bauer and Tanaka (and Morton who definitely won't sign with the Jays), the SP market as a whole is filled with pitchers coming off injury/down years (Kluber, Paxton, Odorizzi, Quintana, Archer, etc). Ray is included in that group as well and the Jays signed him. Upside is there on all of them but health/performance is going to be hard to predict. I've said before I think they end up with 2 more SP's before the off season is over, but I have no clue which direction they'll end up going in. The trade market might end up being a better option.

[connorp]

I’d take JO. Picky mofos. As other have said, need 2 more- hopefully one better than Ray or JO

[z3r0s]

I've always wanted Pax on the Jays. A short value rebuilding stop might be the most palatable way for that to happen

[saskjayfan]

After Bauer and Tanaka (and Morton who definitely won't sign with the Jays), the SP market as a whole is filled with pitchers coming off injury/down years (Kluber, Paxton, Odorizzi, Quintana, Archer, etc). Ray is included in that group as well and the Jays signed him. Upside is there on all of them but health/performance is going to be hard to predict. I've said before I think they end up with 2 more SP's before the off season is over, but I have no clue which direction they'll end up going in. The trade market might end up being a better option.

 

I feel like Bauer is going to be difficult to land. I don't love Tanka or Odorizzi on multi year deals. I'm not sure why you are convinced Morton won't come here. Robert Murray is reporting the Blue Jays "love" Springer. I've come around a bit on Springer. I mean he's a fantastic player. If we somehow got springer go get Morton, Paxton or Kluber. Overpay for a one year deal. The starting pitching market is insane next year. I'd rather overpay on a one year than give multi year deals to tanaka or Odorizzi.

[Brownie19]

I feel like Bauer is going to be difficult to land. I don't love Tanka or Odorizzi on multi year deals. I'm not sure why you are convinced Morton won't come here. Robert Murray is reporting the Blue Jays "love" Springer. I've come around a bit on Springer. I mean he's a fantastic player. If we somehow got springer go get Morton, Paxton or Kluber. Overpay for a one year deal. The starting pitching market is insane next year. I'd rather overpay on a one year than give multi year deals to tanaka or Odorizzi.

 

what makes your think Odorizzi is getting a multi year deal?

[Spanky99]

This FO was interested in Odorizzi last season, makes sense why their kicking tires.

[connorp]

what makes your think Odorizzi is getting a multi year deal?

 

Depends on your definition of “multi”. As in 2 or more, or more than 2

Because he’ll likely get 2 max

[saskjayfan]

what makes your think Odorizzi is getting a multi year deal?

 

fair enough...if he's a one year guy he's still behind kluber, paxton and Morton for me. MLB trade rumors had Odorizzi going to us on a three year deal.

[Grant77]

Depends on your definition of “multi”. As in 2 or more, or more than 2

Because he’ll likely get 2 max

 

His definition? Multiple means more than one. There is no other definition.

[Dick_Pole]

I’d take JO. Picky mofos. As other have said, need 2 more- hopefully one better than Ray or JO

 

I don't feel he's a significant upgrade over what the Jays could throw out there already. If it's a one year deal and otherwise the cash goes to Rogers' shareholders, then hey might as well if nothing else comes the team's way.

[connorp]

His definition? Multiple means more than one. There is no other definition.

 

From Merriam Webster. The phrase in question is “multi-“ and not “multiple”.

Though basically same thing

 

multi- combining form

English Language Learners Definition of multi-

: many : much

: more than two

: many times over

[Dick_Pole]

Holy f*** before this nonsense gets out of control I'd like to chime in that I completely understood the spirit of conner's post and that multi-year deals *tend* to mean 3+ years while one and two-year deals are generally mentioned as such. And I would guess that most of the non-autistic contributors here understood the spirit of what he is saying too. Language doesn't have to be literal at all times.

[Spanky99]

[glory]

I feel like Bauer is going to be difficult to land. I don't love Tanka or Odorizzi on multi year deals. I'm not sure why you are convinced Morton won't come here. Robert Murray is reporting the Blue Jays "love" Springer. I've come around a bit on Springer. I mean he's a fantastic player. If we somehow got springer go get Morton, Paxton or Kluber. Overpay for a one year deal. The starting pitching market is insane next year. I'd rather overpay on a one year than give multi year deals to tanaka or Odorizzi.

 

Morton apparently wants to stay in Florida, so unless that changes, I don't think the Jays have a shot. Obviously if he's willing to go to the highest bidder regardless of location, then a one year deal for him would be the ideal fit.

 

This does seem like the type of market where if the Jays are going to go big on someone, it would be better to do it on a position player (Springer or DJ specifically). Other than Bauer, I'm lukewarm on the free SP's. Almost all of them come with risk and varying degrees of upside, and I don't think there is one besides Bauer I'd go more than 1-2 years on and feel confident about it (mostly due to health, ex. Paxton, Kluber, Archer).

[THANOS]

Morton apparently wants to stay in Florida, so unless that changes, I don't think the Jays have a shot. Obviously if he's willing to go to the highest bidder regardless of location, then a one year deal for him would be the ideal fit.

 

This does seem like the type of market where if the Jays are going to go big on someone, it would be better to do it on a position player (Springer or DJ specifically). Other than Bauer, I'm lukewarm on the free SP's. Almost all of them come with risk and varying degrees of upside, and I don't think there is one besides Bauer I'd go more than 1-2 years on and feel confident about it (mostly due to health, ex. Paxton, Kluber, Archer).

 

Yeah. I would much rather spend big on a position player and Springer or DJ look like the best choices.

 

Springer would cost money and the 2nd round pick but that's worth it on paper. I would also trade LGJ, #8-10 prospect and #14-20 prospect to try and get Lindor. Don't really want to deal any of our top 7 prospects for Lindor. Otherwise, I'd rather just sign DJ.

 

And then we could sign Kluber and Paxton to 1YR pillow deals. Hopefully a couple of Kay/Hatch/SWR/Manoah would be ready to take over if either of them get injured.

[Brownie19]

I don't feel he's a significant upgrade over what the Jays could throw out there already. If it's a one year deal and otherwise the cash goes to Rogers' shareholders, then hey might as well if nothing else comes the team's way.

 

I don't know what the hate for Odorizzi is. He was solid in 2018 (2.6 WAR) and really good in 2019 (4.3 WAR) before being injured last year. He's not as sexy as Kluber or Paxton and may not have quite the ceiling, but he's younger than both and his injuries last year (chest and blister) are more promising than the ones that Kluber, Paxton, Archer, etc. are coming off.

 

That said - I'm really not sure I want him on a 3 year deal, but for 1 year, 1 year with an option or even a 2 year deal - I'm not going to turn my nose at it.

[glory]

Yeah. I would much rather spend big on a position player and Springer or DJ look like the best choices.

 

Springer would cost money and the 2nd round pick but that's worth it on paper. I would also trade LGJ, #8-10 prospect and #14-20 prospect to try and get Lindor. Don't really want to deal any of our top 7 prospects for Lindor. Otherwise, I'd rather just sign DJ.

 

And then we could sign Kluber and Paxton to 1YR pillow deals. Hopefully a couple of Kay/Hatch/SWR/Manoah would be ready to take over if either of them get injured.

 

I wouldn't mind one of the high upside targets (Kluber, Paxton), assuming they'd be willing to take a pillow contract with the Jays (not an easy bargaining position), but preferably the Jays would also add someone who is a more reliable top/mid rotation option. The only pitcher who I can think of that mixes reliability/performance and might be available in this market is Lance Lynn. Find a way to trade for him and then sign Paxton or Kluber (or someone in that category), and the rotation would suddenly look pretty decent with real depth behind them.

[Grant77]

Holy f*** before this nonsense gets out of control I'd like to chime in that I completely understood the spirit of conner's post and that multi-year deals *tend* to mean 3+ years while one and two-year deals are generally mentioned as such. And I would guess that most of the non-autistic contributors here understood the spirit of what he is saying too. Language doesn't have to be literal at all times.

 

I expect that the vast majority of people here would call a 2 year contract a multi year deal. There is no understanding that a 2 year deal is not for multiple years. That's just something you are imagining.

[Brownie19]

I wouldn't mind one of the high upside targets (Kluber, Paxton), assuming they'd be willing to take a pillow contract with the Jays (not an easy bargaining position), but preferably the Jays would also add someone who is a more reliable top/mid rotation option. The only pitcher who I can think of that mixes reliability/performance and might be available in this market is Lance Lynn. Find a way to trade for him and then sign Paxton or Kluber (or someone in that category), and the rotation would suddenly look pretty decent with real depth behind them.

 

I don't disagree, but Lynn is entering his age 34 season and is a FA after 2021. How much would you give up for that? This is like the Lindor s***. How much do you give up for 1 year? Assuming Lynn costs a legit prospect, I think I'd rather try and sign 2 of Kluber, Paxton, Odorizzi, Archer, etc.). The issue is who the f*** wants to pitch in Toronto on a pillow contract to rebuild their value? Good chance we have to offer multiple years to attract those options.

[Brownie19]

Maybe we look overseas again for some pitching...

 

MLB.com's Jon Morosi reports that Kohei Arihara is "increasingly likely to be posted by the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters prior to Thanksgiving."

 

Arihara took home the Japanese version of the Cy Young Award in 2019 with a 2.46 ERA, 0.919 WHIP, and 161/40 K/BB ratio in 164 1/3 innings (24 starts) for Hokkaido. He then followed that up with a 3.46 ERA, 1.168 WHIP, and 106/30 K/BB ratio over 132 2/3 innings in 2020. The 28-year-old right-hander could draw interest from several MLB teams this winter given the lack of high quality starters on the free agent market.

[glory]

I don't disagree, but Lynn is entering his age 34 season and is a FA after 2021. How much would you give up for that? This is like the Lindor s***. How much do you give up for 1 year? Assuming Lynn costs a legit prospect, I think I'd rather try and sign 2 of Kluber, Paxton, Odorizzi, Archer, etc.). The issue is who the f*** wants to pitch in Toronto on a pillow contract to rebuild their value? Good chance we have to offer multiple years to attract those options.

 

Not sure what type of return the Rangers would get for one year of Lynn. I wouldn't give up a top prospect for him either, but I'm assuming due to lack of team control it wouldn't require one. Depends on what type of return they are looking for. I think a trade for someone like Lynn is more realistic than a one year deal for some of the names mentioned, primarily because of what you said. The Jays are not a team that pitchers who want to rebuild value will go to, for a multitude of reasons. Ray is just someone who happened to enjoy his time here so that gave the team the leg up on him. I don't think other FA's in similar spots would feel the same way.

[connorp]

I expect that the vast majority of people here would call a 2 year contract a multi year deal. There is no understanding that a 2 year deal is not for multiple years. That's just something you are imagining.

 

As I’m never one to shy away from nonsense arguments... maybe the vast majority would consider 2 years a multi-year deal but it wouldn’t make the person that didn’t wrong. As pointed out, there is more than one definition to the word.

 

Typically 2 is referenced differently.. such as bi-racial instead of multi-racial in case where it’s only 2 races. A property manager that covers 2 properties is a Dual Property manager and after that its multi-unit manager. All sorts of other terms for 2 such as pair, couple, etc and then multi ends up being used to mean more than 2

[Spanky99]

Why do you guys never bring up Tanaka?

[max silver]

Why do you guys never bring up Tanaka?

 

He's just not nearly as exciting as many of the other arms out there. What is his likely ceiling going forward? I see a guy that's likely only a 2-2.5 win starter at this point of his career.

[Spanky99]

He's just not nearly as exciting as many of the other arms out there. What is his likely ceiling going forward? I see a guy that's likely only a 2-2.5 win starter at this point of his career.

 

The only exciting arm out there over Tanaka is Bauer, Kluber could be close. Meh, I want him and Springer.

[max silver]

The only exciting arm out there over Tanaka is Bauer, Kluber could be close. Meh, I want him and Springer.

 

I like Odorizzi over Tanaka, more upside, several years younger and likely takes less years at a lower annual value as well.

[Brownie19]

Why do you guys never bring up Tanaka?

 

Tanaka's prime advantage over the others typically listed is he was actually healthy and pitched well last year. Almost everyone else mentioned was hurt

[Spanky99]

I like Odorizzi over Tanaka, more upside, several years younger and likely takes less years at a lower annual value as well.

 

Meh, to each their own I guess, just looking at Steamer600 projections; some of these guys are a full win better Bauer 3.6, Morton 3.6, Kluber 3.5, Paxton 3.3, 3.1 to Odorizzi's 2.3

 

I wouldn't cry if we signed any of them.