Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Spanky99]

Hiraldo is rule 5 eligible in 2 years. We have Bo, Cavan, Martin, Groshans, and Martinez ahead of him. You might have a hard time fitting him on the 40 man in 2 years and lose him for nothing. Even if you get him on the 40. Who is he replacing on the active roster in a couple years? He could play really well and jump other prospects over the next 2 years. You come to these points and you have to make evaluations. Sometimes you are wrong. There isn't room on the active roster for Martin, Groshans, Martinez and Hiraldo when you have Bo and Cavan ahead of them.

 

If you think Bryant is capable of bouncing back being a 5 win player in one year. That's more valuable to me than a guy who might be a 8 to 10 win player over 6 years when we are going to have a hard time finding a place on the 40 in 2 years.

 

If I can get Bryant and the center piece Hiraldo, giddy up! I do that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

I believe his comment was due in large because you mentioned Adams and another piece... that's a lot when you're swallowing 20 million.

[saskjayfan]

Don’t get tunnel vision. Two years is a looooong time in baseball.

 

They could just sign Justin Turner.

 

They could trade Hiraldo (or anyone else they deem expendable) for someone who has more objective trade value and maybe more team control than Bryant

 

I'm just playing devils advocate. I'm all for signing Turner over trading for Bryant. I'm just saying if all else fails and you don't get LeMahieu, Turner, Springer or can't trade Lindor, Storey or sign a number of impact pitchers that I would be open to the idea of trading for Bryant if you felt he could still be a 5 win player. I'm not saying it's the first move out of the gate. I'm saying as a fall back plan I would have no issue pulling the trigger on the deal if you couldn't impact your team with other moves.

[glory]

Hiraldo being two years away from Rule 5 eligibility gives the Jays less incentive to trade him, not more. They have time with him, and a lot can happen in two years, including trading him for someone else with 2-3 years of control instead of 1. A more realistic trade candidate due to Rule 5 eligibility might be Moreno since Kirk already beat him to the 40 man and Jansen still has 4 years of control. I wouldn't move him for Bryant, but he's probably a candidate to get moved.

[Laika]

I'm just playing devils advocate. I'm all for signing Turner over trading for Bryant. I'm just saying if all else fails and you don't get LeMahieu, Turner, Springer or can't trade Lindor, Storey or sign a number of impact pitchers that I would be open to the idea of trading for Bryant if you felt he could still be a 5 win player. I'm not saying it's the first move out of the gate. I'm saying as a fall back plan I would have no issue pulling the trigger on the deal if you couldn't impact your team with other moves.

 

Fair enough. My take is that unless Bryant doesn't cost much of anything in terms of prospect capital he should be way down the preference list. Moving Hiraldo + for him just seems like a sort of desperate move, something a team like the Diamondbacks would do before finishing .500 again.

[saskjayfan]

Fair enough. My take is that unless Bryant doesn't cost much of anything in terms of prospect capital he should be way down the preference list. Moving Hiraldo + for him just seems like a sort of desperate move, something a team like the Diamondbacks would do before finishing .500 again.

 

I can also acknowledge I understand he wouldn't be on some potential non-tender lists if he had tremendous value. It probably isn't going to cost much for Bryant because you're going to have to pay a lot of salary. The cost might be less than what someone else suggested. Depending what else happened in the offseason I also wouldn't mind a slight overpay to ensure you don't lose a deal given our current state of prospect capital either. I'm pretty much Switzerland on this one. I'd much prefer to go after Storey as a rental.

[Brownie19]

Jon Gray surprises me as a name on that list, Pham too.

 

and Schwarber?

[glory]

If the Jays can't sign LeMathieu, then I think I'd rather have Bryant (assuming he comes as cheap as people seem to think) than any of the alternatives. I'd rather not move Bichette off short unless it was for a superstar (Lindor), so I don't particularly care for the SS market this winter (Semien, Didi, Simmons, etc). Moving Biggio to 3B and getting a 2B probably doesn't improve the IF defense as a whole all that much. Bryant in a lot of the ways is the perfect answer. It's not like plugging Shaw in there for a year. Bryant could put up a 4-5 WAR and it wouldn't be all that surprising. He can play 3B for a year, with real superstar upside if he bounces back, and the team can give him the QO and reassess 3B after the season. Really just depends on what it would take to get him.

[RobinThicc]

The price for Bryant would have to be really cheap considering he's a lock to test FA.

[Ray]

too much for me. i wouldn't deal a top 10 prospect for him. i don't think there is a Miguel Hiraldo sized gap between Bryant's salary and projected production, and there are a good number of solid free agent infielders right now

 

If we can get him for Riley Adams and Kevin Smith instead, even better. Try to unload potential Rule 5 guys for him if possible.

[connorp]

If we can get him for Riley Adams and Kevin Smith instead, even better. Try to unload potential Rule 5 guys for him if possible.

 

You guys are plan nuts. What would be the motivation to move a star player from your big market team that’s still a contender for org guys. I mean, sometimes teams will see what others think is an org guy and think they can be a star but are Riley or Smith that? They aren’t the 76ers going to tank nation just to shred payroll. They have a brand they’re running and fans to answer to, at least to a certain extent. The optics would be really bad if they just blatantly dumped KB

 

Off the cuff I’d expect the return to be something like Baty with the Mets. Top 100ish guy that they’re high on.

[connorp]

Guess I already made that argument though. Apologies for that but Smith and Riley?

[Brownie19]

You guys are plan nuts. What would be the motivation to move a star player from your big market team that’s still a contender for org guys. I mean, sometimes teams will see what others think is an org guy and think they can be a star but are Riley or Smith that? They aren’t the 76ers going to tank nation just to shred payroll. They have a brand they’re running and fans to answer to, at least to a certain extent. The optics would be really bad if they just blatantly dumped KB

 

Off the cuff I’d expect the return to be something like Baty with the Mets. Top 100ish guy that they’re high on.

 

I agree with this.

[Laika]

You guys are plan nuts. What would be the motivation to move a star player from your big market team that’s still a contender for org guys. I mean, sometimes teams will see what others think is an org guy and think they can be a star but are Riley or Smith that? They aren’t the 76ers going to tank nation just to shred payroll. They have a brand they’re running and fans to answer to, at least to a certain extent. The optics would be really bad if they just blatantly dumped KB

 

Off the cuff I’d expect the return to be something like Baty with the Mets. Top 100ish guy that they’re high on.

 

Is Kris Bryant still a star? That's not obvious.

He was a star for his first three years. The he was just above average in 2018. A borderline star in 2019 (but still worse than his first three years). Awful in 2020.

 

His exit velocity has trended down his entire career. His xwOBA in 2019 was the same as in 2018 so the WAR totals might be misleading - possible his solid 2019 was a bit lucky.

 

He looks like maybe a 3 WAR player to me, and at $21M or whatever there just isn't much surplus value unless you throw his 2020 entirely out the window and expect a bounce back to 2019 which is just plain optimistic.

 

If the Cubs can get a fringe top 100 prospect it's a no-brainer considering Bryant's salary and one year of control and Jed Hoyer would be doing cartwheels, I think.

[connorp]

Bryant has been streaky during his career, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable not to put too much weight in a 30 game sample size compared to his total resume. Even in his really bad year he was at 125 wRC+ and so projecting 115 is pretty aggressive downward IMO. We’ll see

[THANOS]

Don’t get tunnel vision. Two years is a looooong time in baseball.

 

They could just sign Justin Turner.

 

They could trade Hiraldo (or anyone else they deem expendable) for someone who has more objective trade value and maybe more team control than Bryant

 

Case in point, packaging him & a Top 15ish prospect with LGJ for Lindor.

[THANOS]

You can get him with less than Hiraldo. The Cubs have no reason to pay his salary next year, they seem headed for a rebuild. You could probably get him for free if you took Kimbrel. Actually, if you took Kimbrel, the Cubs would have to add lol.

 

Bryant & Kimbrel for Randal Grichuk and Riley Adams

 

Then go and sign Springer

 

I would do that trade.

[saskjayfan]

Bryant & Kimbrel for Randal Grichuk and Riley Adams

 

Then go and sign Springer

 

I would do that trade.

 

While we are raiding the Cubs, Darvish at 3 years 62 looks pretty tempting to me. His velocity ticked up and I still remember that cruel rumour that was floated on his original posting that we might have won the bid. I think he'd be a nice add...not sure what the cost would be.

[wamco]

While we are raiding the Cubs, Darvish at 3 years 62 looks pretty tempting to me. His velocity ticked up and I still remember that cruel rumour that was floated on his original posting that we might have won the bid. I think he'd be a nice add...not sure what the cost would be.

 

Espinal

[saskjayfan]

Espinal

 

So Davish was a 3 win player in 60 games and his salary actually went up a million a year because of performance bonuses and his cost is Espinal. Giddy up. Where do I sign..lol. There is a possibility the Cubs go into fire sale mode and he might come at a discount, but it's probably going to cost more than Espinal!

[The Cats Ass]

Marlins trade 2.0 - “The Cub Den”

[saskjayfan]

Man there are a lot of relievers on the market this year. Liam Hendriks, Trevor May, Trevor Rosenthal, Treinen are the head liners but there are lots of intriguing cheaper options. Yates, Holland had an interesting year, Melancon, Greene, McGee, Jeffress, Soria, O'day, Anthony Bass. There are lots of filler guys beyond this.

 

It would be nice to sign one or two veteran relievers. We might just bring Bass back because he might be the easiest to sign and won't cost that much. McGee really had a really good year. Uptick in velocity and got a crazy amount of swing and misses. Do you even factor 2020 numbers in? McGee's a guy I might throw a 1 and 4 mil a year gamble on.

[Laika]

Marlins trade 2.0 - “The Cub Den”

 

lol

 

Bryant, Darvish, Kimbrel, something else

 

For

 

Anthony Kay, Reese McGuire, Santiago Espinal, Adam Kloffenstein, and Dasan Brown

[saskjayfan]

lol

 

Bryant, Darvish, Kimbrel, something else

 

For

 

Anthony Kay, Reese McGuire, Santiago Espinal, Adam Kloffenstein, and Dasan Brown

 

You're giving away our Canadian! If we're taking on Kimbrel at one and 17 mil with the risk of a vesting option I have to include Roark going the other way. Darvish is basically Bauer, but he's 10 to 15 mil a year cheaper and you only have a 3 year commitment. Now he's got age risk. Can he keep this level up for one more year, 2 years or 3? He's an interesting guy and they probably want more prospect wise.

 

Bryant, Darvish, Kimbrel something else

 

for Anthony Kay, McGuire, Roark, Manoah and Moreno and maybe another flyer.

[Spanky99]

lol... you guys are f***ed.

[The Cats Ass]

lol

 

Bryant, Darvish, Kimbrel, something else

 

For

 

Anthony Kay, Reese McGuire, Santiago Espinal, Adam Kloffenstein, and Dasan Brown

 

Maybe take Reese out and do a catcher swap; Willson Contreras and Danny Jansen. Albert Almora can be the Bonfacio(5th piece).

[connorp]

At this point I think Rizzo needs to be added to the package. Rowdy can go back their way. So Vlad will get his shot at 3b and if it doesn’t work, he’ll be DH for betterment of the team

[Jays24]

So when do we expect the free agent action to begin? We gonna have to wait until the zoom winter meetings?

[Carlos Danger]

At this point I think Rizzo needs to be added to the package. Rowdy can go back their way. So Vlad will get his shot at 3b and if it doesn’t work, he’ll be DH for betterment of the team

 

I think at this point we should not even be contemplating giving him a shot. We just need to go fwd in planning with Vlad at 1b or DH.

 

Run prevention is supposed to be a goal for 2021 and Vlad at 3b does not meet that goal.

[connorp]

I think at this point we should not even be contemplating giving him a shot. We just need to go fwd in planning with Vlad at 1b or DH.

 

Run prevention is supposed to be a goal for 2021 and Vlad at 3b does not meet that goal.

 

My post was kind of joking around but switching to serious, depends on the situation as far as how much he wants to play there. There are other considerations to consider other than stat nerd stuff (joking here too, I realize D at the corner in important).

 

If he turns into the generational guy he was thought to be, do you risk putting him where he doesn’t want to be and then he walks first chance FA pops up?

[King]

So, who gets added to the 40-man rotnight and who gets left off?