Fire Charlie Montoyo - The thread worked guys!

[Spanky99]

Pretty sure that run differential thing was an Olerud troll and the sensitive bunch fell for it.

Shut-up, Dick!

[Olerud363]

I took you for being more astute than that. My mistake.

 

"Main job of the manager is to coordinate the coaching staff, keep players healthy, keep players productive as possible given their talent, put players in a position to succeed. "

 

No, those are all very important roles of the manager, but his most important role is to be a 'leader' and run a professional operation that does not continuously make the same old mental errors, show up out of shape, etc. This f***ing guy is a joke. Do you think Roy Halladay would have put up with Vlad's shenanigans? He would have had that fat f*** down doing 20 pushups regularly until the kid got his head out of his ass!

 

This seems another case where we are saying the same thing. To keep players as productive as possible you do everything you can to make sure they are in shape and don't make mental errors.

 

Not saying we hold him responsible for every player's success and failure, just evaluate him as the "quarterback" of the coaching staff and training staff. Coaching staff is responsible for keeping team healthy, producitve (hitting mechanics) and mentally ready. There are arguments to be made both ways.

[Olerud363]

-38 run differential in their last 6 games, Olerud brings up run differential... *face palm*

 

You can't cherry pick it. Run differential is often like that. If you used that logic you could say the Jays are as good as the Yankees because the differences between them only occurred in 6 games.

 

You could say the 2015 Jays weren't as good as their differential because 35 of that was done in a 5 game winning streak in late August.

[Olerud363]

not walking Harper with first base open and 2 outs are much bigger, and more glaring errors (I mean, the goddamn broadcasters called that one out...).

 

Brom was on deck and he has the same lifetime OPS as Harper. I admit it would of been righty vs lefty with Harper, righty vs righty with Brom.

 

I am suspect he made the move that was correct in the win probability sense. Putting the winning run on is almost never a good move.

 

I guess you are discounting Brom, as you assume he isn't for real. His minor league record is decent enough.

 

It doesn't seem an "obvious" decision to me, unless you are player development expert and are able to confidently discount Brom.

[Olerud363]

Pretty sure that run differential thing was an Olerud troll and the sensitive bunch fell for it.

 

You can't just forget the last 6 games. I guess if you really want to remove the 6 game losing streak, in that case we need to evaluate Charlie as 26-20 on a +8

 

or do you want to take away the Mets blow out too??

 

Charlie 26-19 - on a + 27 run differential. So if we remove the blowouts, it seems Charlie is performing about at his run differential.

 

Is it fair to just remove the Blue Jays blow outs though?? If you wanted to use 'Run differential - top 6 blow outs' Charlie would still look good compared to other managers.

 

I'm not saying Charlie is good. Just that he is not having a huge effect on the W/L.

 

Logic on the other side seems to be "Charlie has made 5 terrible moves that resulted in a TSN turning point. Let's back track, undo those moves and we get 5 more wins"

 

When really that's just saying, if we undo the TSN turning point it helps a lot... and it would if you had a time machine.

 

Since we don't have a time machine the best we can do is change the future.

 

If you have 15 moves you are concerned about that resulted in 5 losses, you could do all 15 correct moving forward, but it would probably result in 5 losses again.

 

In the real long term over many years you could gain a win or 2... maybe. If there were 150 moves that resulted in 50 losses, doing it the other way might get you an extra win.

 

"Strategy" doesn't swing things more that a game or 2 in a 160 game season, or a fractional game in a 60 game season.

[wilko]

Charlie should be fired for letting Vladdy learn 1B. Stick him at DH and see if he can figure out hitting the ball in the air.

[glory]

The blame for Vlad to 1B is on Shatkins. They tried him at 3B for years, knowing that he was fat and not likely to stick there, then gave him like a week notice before the season started that he’s permanently moving to 1B. They could have tried Vlad at 1B in the minors or slowly worked him into that role. Instead they thrust him in there with no prior experience and expected it to be seamless.

[The Iceman]

My biggest beef is Chucks horrible use of the bullpen.

 

You need to do more than work off your pregame chart of who is going to pitch which innings based on availability.

Unless you are a top RP you will not have your best stuff every time out. Yet Montoya will pull a RP that clearly has his good stuff just because he wasn't scheduled to go more than an inning.

Borucki threw 13 pitches in a clean outing on the weekend. He was super sharp. Pulled him after the inning with disasterous results. And I have to say Borucki is a poster child for the misuse. Limited to a 1 inning guy when he clearly has the stuff to go longer. Really limits his value to the team. I prefer him as a starter but that is another story.

[Stangstag]

The blame for Vlad to 1B is on Shatkins. They tried him at 3B for years, knowing that he was fat and not likely to stick there, then gave him like a week notice before the season started that he’s permanently moving to 1B. They could have tried Vlad at 1B in the minors or slowly worked him into that role. Instead they thrust him in there with no prior experience and expected it to be seamless.

 

Under normal circumstances he would have showed up fat to spring training and they would have moved him to first base and he would have had a month to work practice at the position. Just so happened that he was fit for ST, then we had lockdown for a few months and the season was delayed. When the season finally began he was fat as fk and they realized that he wouldn’t be able to manage third.

 

I would blame Vlad for being unable to control his weight.

[Grant77]

I've defended Montoyo a lot, but this is too much. Pulling Shoemaker is the single stupidest managerial decision I have ever seen. I'm a loss to even start explaining it.

[Abomination]

I've defended Montoyo a lot, but this is too much. Pulling Shoemaker is the single stupidest managerial decision I have ever seen. I'm a loss to even start explaining it.

 

This seems very clearly predetermined. I doubt it was his decision.

[Deadpool]

I've defended Montoyo a lot, but this is too much. Pulling Shoemaker is the single stupidest managerial decision I have ever seen. I'm a loss to even start explaining it.

 

"I SAID THREE INNINGS ONLY DAMMIT!"

 

That's the explanation, it's a STUPID explanation, but that's what it is.

[Grant77]

"I SAID THREE INNINGS ONLY DAMMIT!"

 

That's the explanation, it's a STUPID explanation, but that's what it is.

 

Montoyo should call Shapiro and tell him to go f*** himself if that is the case, but I think he played a part in the decision.

[JuniorFelix54]

I've defended Montoyo a lot, but this is too much. Pulling Shoemaker is the single stupidest managerial decision I have ever seen. I'm a loss to even start explaining it.

 

It's not bad enough that he pulls him, to bring in ROBBIE RAY the walk machine and his 7.00 ERA???????????? ARE YOU F'N KIDDING ME?????? Why the hell did he put Hatch out there for a 5 inning start on Sat. after he was a middle reliever all year long instead of bringing him in a situation like this? Montoya is obviously a clown, bring in Stripling too you baffoon

[Grant77]

It's not bad enough that he pulls him, to bring in ROBBIE RAY the walk machine and his 7.00 ERA???????????? ARE YOU F'N KIDDING ME?????? Why the hell did he put Hatch out there for a 5 inning start on Sat. after he was a middle reliever all year long instead of bringing him in a situation like this? Montoya is obviously a clown, bring in Stripling too you baffoon

 

I don't have a problem with Robbie Ray pitching. I have a problem with when he pitched. You have to give Shoemaker more rope, especially 2 RHB and a not very good LHB coming up.

[Spanky99]

It was an obvious FO call, geez!

[Spanky99]

Montoyo should call Shapiro and tell him to go f*** himself if that is the case, but I think he played a part in the decision.

 

Of course he did, c'mon... be our puppet, simple.

[JuniorFelix54]

It was an obvious FO call, geez!

 

The FO is trash! What great trade deadline moves : Robbie Ray, Stripling, Villar ... what a joke. What a huge help they've been, the FO and manager are equally inept

[Deadpool]

The FO is trash! What great trade deadline moves : Robbie Ray, Stripling, Villar ... what a joke. What a huge help they've been, the FO and manager are equally inept

 

The trade deadline moves were fine man, no issue with any of those moves.

[Spanky99]

The FO is trash! What great trade deadline moves : Robbie Ray, Stripling, Villar ... what a joke. What a huge help they've been, the FO and manager are equally inept

 

Easy Champ, the Birds and Padres did their best to get us here? (Big deadline movers)

 

The interference was obvious in this game, lol. It's still only 1-0, be happy! lol

[Spanky99]

The trade deadline moves were fine man, no issue with any of those moves.

 

Dude needs a Snickers...

[JuniorFelix54]

Yeah I guess 3 ip 1 run from Ray is better than expected, can't pin this on him the bats have been pathetic

[Deadpool]

Yeah I guess 3 ip 1 run from Ray is better than expected, can't pin this on him the bats have been pathetic

 

I mean, Snell is a really good pitcher, so it's not like one of those games where we got dominated by a lefty throwing 85MPH meatballs.

[JuniorFelix54]

I mean, Snell is a really good pitcher, so it's not like one of those games where we got dominated by a lefty throwing 85MPH meatballs.

 

Snell was a great pitcher for 1 year. Last year he was average at best and this year he had a 3.24 ERA and 1.20 WHIP I would call that good not very good. He also gave up 10 HRs in 50 innings. They should be able to do better than 1 hit in 5 2/3 with 9 whiffs

[JuniorFelix54]

And not only do they not hit any HRs off a guy who would be on pace for giving up 40 in a 200 inning season, they give up a 2 run shot to a guy with 1 all year. Oh well, they're basically playing as I thought they would. Probably get shutout tomorrow too and that'll be the end of this fluke 8th seed playoff berth.

[bones10]

Snell was a great pitcher for 1 year. Last year he was average at best and this year he had a 3.24 ERA and 1.20 WHIP I would call that good not very good. He also gave up 10 HRs in 50 innings. They should be able to do better than 1 hit in 5 2/3 with 9 whiffs

 

lol

[Orgfiller]

And not only do they not hit any HRs off a guy who would be on pace for giving up 40 in a 200 inning season, they give up a 2 run shot to a guy with 1 all year. Oh well, they're basically playing as I thought they would. Probably get shutout tomorrow too and that'll be the end of this fluke 8th seed playoff berth.

 

Embarrassing post.

[saskjayfan]

Embarrassing post.

 

especially with Grichuk absolutely smoking a line drive, Jansen hit a ball really hard that just didn't drop, Panik his a ball hard in key spot, so did Bo.....we just didn't get the breaks tonight. The bats weren't fantastic, but they could have easily got 3 runs across given the contact tonight.

[glory]

Unfortunately this "bastardized Rays" type of managing style is probably the norm with Atkins/Montoyo around. Even if the moves end up working or make sense at the time, being a fan of a personality-less, formulaic, numbers-obsessed team like the Rays is not appealing at all.

[Olerud363]

Unfortunately this "bastardized Rays" type of managing style is probably the norm with Atkins/Montoyo around. Even if the moves end up working or make sense at the time, being a fan of a personality-less, formulaic, numbers-obsessed team like the Rays is not appealing at all.

 

In Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Gurriel, Grichuk, Hernandez, Kirk, Ryu this team has a lot of name recognition and personality.

 

I mean Kirk showed up and he's already very recognizable... unique guy obviously. Point is ... this team lacks personality??

 

Also will Pearson have more personality if he becomes the next Aaron Sanchez?? Or if he becomes a 4-5 inning piggy back guy who has mind blowing numbers in 145 innings and does it for 4 years??

 

Will Shoemaker have more personality being a 10-12 guy or being a 9-4 guy if he can perform better being used less??