Blue Jays All-Time Roster

[Dick_Pole]

I think Seattle would smash us. Pitching wise we do probably have the edge because of the two Roger Clemens seasons. Otherwise they have Randy Johnson to matchup against Doc and then Felix and Stieb are probably similar. For position players they have A-Rod, Griffey, Edgar, Beltre, Vizquel, etc.

 

We should compare to the Padres then. Funny enough because of the blockbuster trade a lot of the top players will cancel each other out. Sad for the Padres that all four of those guys had immensely more successful careers in Jays uniforms than Padres.

[Grant77]

The Mariners have had 4 first overall picks and a total of 9 bottom 3 picks. Outside of Griffey and Rodriguez, the most well known is probably Jose Cruz Jr, who had almost all of his success with the Jays.

 

They have lost over 90 games in more than one third (15) of their seasons. The Jays have done so 6 times and only twice after their inaugural seasons. In fact, last season was our worst since 1979. The Mariners don't get the credit they deserve for their futility, especially with all of the star players mentioned in this thread.

[max silver]

We should compare to the Padres then. Funny enough because of the blockbuster trade a lot of the top players will cancel each other out. Sad for the Padres that all four of those guys had immensely more successful careers in Jays uniforms than Padres.

 

I wanted to call ******** on Joe Carter but after looking up his Padres numbers he actually had the worst season of his career in a Padres uniform, despite how ugly his post world series years were in a Blue Jays uniform.

[max silver]

The Mariners have had 4 first overall picks and a total of 9 bottom 3 picks. Outside of Griffey and Rodriguez, the most well known is probably Jose Cruz Jr, who had almost all of his success with the Jays.

 

They have lost over 90 games in more than one third (15) of their seasons. The Jays have done so 6 times and only twice after their inaugural seasons. In fact, last season was our worst since 1979. The Mariners don't get the credit they deserve for their futility, especially with all of the star players mentioned in this thread.

 

This original comparison wasn't comparing overall franchise results, that's obviously heavily slanted in the Jays favor, but when comparing actual player performances in the franchises history things tilt in the Mariners favor.

[Grant77]

This original comparison wasn't comparing overall franchise results, that's obviously heavily slanted in the Jays favor, but when comparing actual player performances in the franchises history things tilt in the Mariners favor.

 

I wasn't exactly staying on script, but I meant to show how their poor performance has had such a huge impact on the composition of their all-time team. Who's to say there isn't a Chipper Jones, Derek Jeter, or Barry Bonds on our all-time team in an alternate universe where the Jays are bad. One that stands out to me is 1979 where the Mets got the first overall pick, despite winning 10 more games than us. Darryl Strawberry could have (maybe should have) been a Hall of Famer in different circumstances. It's interesting to think about.

[Brownie19]

I wasn't exactly staying on script, but I meant to show how their poor performance has had such a huge impact on the composition of their all-time team. Who's to say there isn't a Chipper Jones, Derek Jeter, or Barry Bonds on our all-time team in an alternate universe where the Jays are bad. One that stands out to me is 1979 where the Mets got the first overall pick, despite winning 10 more games than us. Darryl Strawberry could have (maybe should have) been a Hall of Famer in different circumstances. It's interesting to think about.

 

What the hell happened to Strawberry? I know he was cocaine and sex addict (actually fooling around with women between innings), but he went from a 4 WAR full time player to playing like 40 games a year for his last 8 years.

 

Just injuries?

[Spanky99]

What the hell happened to Strawberry? I know he was cocaine and sex addict (actually fooling around with women between innings), but he went from a 4 WAR full time player to playing like 40 games a year for his last 8 years.

 

Just injuries?

 

Injuries and suspensions, lol. He was a mess, clean now though.

[Grant77]

What the hell happened to Strawberry? I know he was cocaine and sex addict (actually fooling around with women between innings), but he went from a 4 WAR full time player to playing like 40 games a year for his last 8 years.

 

Just injuries?

 

Definitely a combination of injuries and off field distractions. It's fair to wonder if New York and Los Angeles were the best places for him to deal with those issues. In his somewhat healthy age 36 season, he was still raking so he never lost the ability. He could have been the 4th member of the 500 HR and 300 SB club with Mays, Bonds, and Rodriguez with better health.

[Brownie19]

Injuries and suspensions, lol. He was a mess, clean now though.

 

crazy. I was just reading stories about him asking staff to hunt down women from the stands who would fool around with him during the game. I can't image.

[Grant77]

crazy. I was just reading stories about him asking staff to hunt down women from the stands who would fool around with him during the game. I can't image.

 

I highly recommend reading this article if you don't already know the story.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mantle-piece/

[Dick_Pole]

I wanted to call ******** on Joe Carter but after looking up his Padres numbers he actually had the worst season of his career in a Padres uniform, despite how ugly his post world series years were in a Blue Jays uniform.

 

Do not, and I mean DO NOT, try to debate me on baseball stats between 1989-1993. That was my heyday as an awkward pre-teen with nothing better to do than watch baseball, collect cards and look at stats on those cards.

[Spanky99]

I highly recommend reading this article if you don't already know the story.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mantle-piece/

 

This cracks me up, everytime, lol.

[TheHurl]

Most underrated Jay of all time has to be Juan Guzman 21.0 bWAR in 1200 IP. I'd be okay with him being on someone's rotation...okay with him missing out and being long relief too. I just want his name mentioned. And I've done that so I'll move on now.

[Spanky99]

Most underrated Jay of all time has to be Juan Guzman 21.0 bWAR in 1200 IP. I'd be okay with him being on someone's rotation...okay with him missing out and being long relief too. I just want his name mentioned. And I've done that so I'll move on now.

 

Top 20 or so for 3 years(all SP), what happened to the oily bastard, injuries? He had a career similar to Jim Abbott.

[max silver]

Most underrated Jay of all time has to be Juan Guzman 21.0 bWAR in 1200 IP. I'd be okay with him being on someone's rotation...okay with him missing out and being long relief too. I just want his name mentioned. And I've done that so I'll move on now.

 

Juan Guzman was definitely my favorite Jays starter during the championship seasons. He was awesome during those playoff runs.

[Orgfiller]

Top 20 or so for 3 years(all SP), what happened to the oily bastard, injuries? He had a career similar to Jim Abbott.

 

Yup, injuries to his shoulder.

[Spanky99]

Yup, injuries to his shoulder.

 

Ahh... the death kiss!

[Brownie19]

Yup, injuries to his shoulder.

 

He was a beast. Would have been elite if his control ever improved.

[Beans]

I highly recommend reading this article if you don't already know the story.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mantle-piece/

 

lol, had not come across this before.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Beans

[Beans]

Most underrated Jay of all time has to be Juan Guzman 21.0 bWAR in 1200 IP. I'd be okay with him being on someone's rotation...okay with him missing out and being long relief too. I just want his name mentioned. And I've done that so I'll move on now.

 

Looking back, I can't believe he got snubbed for the AL All-Star Team in '96. His 1st half was better than every SP's 1st half on that AS team. And then he went on to have an even stronger 2nd half, winning the ERA title and leading the league in WHIP.

[Olerud363]

Looking back, I can't believe he got snubbed for the AL All-Star Team in '96. His 1st half was better than every SP's 1st half on that AS team. And then he went on to have an even stronger 2nd half, winning the ERA title and leading the league in WHIP.

 

I know... baseball shutdown, world shutdown, crazy pandemic, humanity on the brink, Olerud363 not seen for weeks, mention the 90s Jays... boom there he is (Hurl has pointed out this before)

 

But anyway the 95 Jays are by far the most talented team ever to suck. Could of easily had the opposite record they did, if the luck went the other way. At least that's my impression

 

Rotation - David Cone, Pat Hentgen, Juan Guzman, Al Leiter

 

All Stars, ERA Champions, Cy Young winners, big parts of big teams both pre and post 95

 

Infield - Olerud, Alomar, Alex Gonzales, Sprague I guess

 

Not as strong as rotation, hall of famer, border line of famer, two servicaeble dudes

 

DH - Paul Molitor (had a .340 season with 200 hits ahead)

 

Outfield - Carlos Delgado, Devon White, Shaun Green

 

Here's where old wounds open up. Throw Joe Carter off the boat, and give Delgado and Green a full shot earlier.

[Dick_Pole]

The problem is the 1995 bullpen was atrocious. From elite to the worst (probably) in a span of two seasons.

[glory]

The problem with the 1995 team was Gord Ash was the GM. No amount of talent was going to compensate for that, as we saw through 2001.

[Dick_Pole]

My gosh man...Ash did fine to acquire Cone. Yes he was s***** later on but he wasn't SO s***** SO fast that he was responsible for the first half of 1995 that ignited the half-assed tear down.

[glory]

Yeah that WS team had to be dismantled as it had run its course, but Ash was not the guy who was going to squeeze more juice out of that roster, and he was not the guy who was going to pivot to maximize assets. That 1995-2001 team had no chance because they had the worst GM in Toronto sports history running it (Babcock wasn't GM long enough to hold that honor).

[Grant77]

Yeah that WS team had to be dismantled as it had run its course, but Ash was not the guy who was going to squeeze more juice out of that roster, and he was not the guy who was going to pivot to maximize assets. That 1995-2001 team had no chance because they had the worst GM in Toronto sports history running it (Babcock wasn't GM long enough to hold that honor).

 

The Jays went 541-575 under Gord Ash. I'm not saying he did a good job, but you don't have to look far to find a Toronto GM that did worse than a ~.500 record.

[Terminator]

I know... baseball shutdown, world shutdown, crazy pandemic, humanity on the brink, Olerud363 not seen for weeks, mention the 90s Jays... boom there he is (Hurl has pointed out this before)

 

But anyway the 95 Jays are by far the most talented team ever to suck. Could of easily had the opposite record they did, if the luck went the other way. At least that's my impression

 

Rotation - David Cone, Pat Hentgen, Juan Guzman, Al Leiter

 

All Stars, ERA Champions, Cy Young winners, big parts of big teams both pre and post 95

 

Infield - Olerud, Alomar, Alex Gonzales, Sprague I guess

 

Not as strong as rotation, hall of famer, border line of famer, two servicaeble dudes

 

DH - Paul Molitor (had a .340 season with 200 hits ahead)

 

Outfield - Carlos Delgado, Devon White, Shaun Green

 

Here's where old wounds open up. Throw Joe Carter off the boat, and give Delgado and Green a full shot earlier.

 

Decent on paper but no depth at all, bad defense and a few blackholes throughout the roster. Had some solid players but no stars providing surplus to cover for problems elsewhere either. Kind of fun to look back on these old teams though.

[Terminator]

Speaking of post WS teams, that 1998 team was a fun one. They ended the season on fire but it wasn't enough to overcome a poor April.

 

Lots of good players. Clemens won his 2nd consecutive CY with us. Delgado mashed. Green had a 35/35 season. Stewart stole 51 bases. Canseco hit 46 homers. Tony Fernandez balled at age 36. Dave Stieb even made a comeback.

[glory]

Those late 90's Jays teams should have made the playoffs at least once or twice during that time. Ash didn't do much to help those teams aside from the one great trade he ever made (Jose Cruz Jr). Let Alomar go for nothing. Traded Olerud AND CASH for Robert Person. Traded Cone (for s***) and Clemens to the Yankees because why the f*** not help a dynasty in your own division get even better. Didn't get a damn thing for the remnants of the World Series crew (Julian f'n Merryweather might end up having a higher big league WAR than any player Ash got back for Alomar, White, Olerud, Guzman, Leiter, etc). Traded Woody Williams for Joey Hamilton for no reason other than because Dave Stewart (we know how great of a GM he ended up becoming) liked Hamilton from his Padres days. Signing Clemens was a Beeston move if I recall, but could be remembering that wrong. Ash also cut resources with the DR when he took over (an area the Jays were dominating during their heyday), which caused a rift with Epy Guerrero, if I'm remembering that right. I could go on and on.

 

All Ash did was sprinkle in the players he inherited into big league spots (Delgado, Green, Stewart, Carpenter, Escobar, etc) but did such a piss poor job in practically every trade and FA signing he ever made that he wasted what should have been a much better run for the Jays.

 

Yes, I'm bitter about those years! Ricciardi wasn't great either, but his only real weakness was drafting. Ash's weakness was everything related to baseball.

[Beans]

Speaking of post WS teams, that 1998 team was a fun one. They ended the season on fire but it wasn't enough to overcome a poor April.

 

Lots of good players. Clemens won his 2nd consecutive CY with us. Delgado mashed. Green had a 35/35 season. Stewart stole 51 bases. Canseco hit 46 homers. Tony Fernandez balled at age 36. Dave Stieb even made a comeback.

 

That 1998 team is one of my all-time favourites. I really enjoyed the whole MLB season in '98, in fact, because at that young age I didn't know or care about the steroid rumours, I was just so impressed by all the numbers and records being broken that year.