General 2018 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[saskjayfan]

huge difference here ,in oakland he had the future ahead of him now he cant get healthy, and whatever one wants to say, the front office would be insane to want to build around him after he has shown he cant get on the field in two years

 

Donaldson asked for a day off before the all star break and Melvin granted it. The lineup card came out Billy asked Melvin why Donaldson wasn't on it and Melvin explained Josh had requested a day off. That prompted a shouting match where Donaldson called Billy Beane Billy boy. Reports came out that no one talks to Billy that way. Josh was traded in the off season.

 

Josh has got into it with Gibby a couple of times in his time as a Jay. A couple days later neither Gibby or Josh had any problems with each other. Josh is a guy who will blow his top from time to time, but Gibby characterized him as one of the best club house presences he's every been around. The guy grinds and is all about winning. The difference with Gibby is he isn't a sensitive baby. Josh says FU and gibby says FU back and a couple days later they hug it out. I think the characterization of Josh being a club house cancer is way off base. He can be prickly at times, but for the most part he's a good dude and more importantly a winner.

[Olerud363]

lol @ ALDS reunion

 

they pissed on Goinsy too

 

this front office has been a PR disaster. robotic and cold. bleeding fans and losing any connection with the players. tsk tsk

 

all hope for the fans and franchise is firmly attached to a teenager (Vladdy) that Shatkins inherited rather than acquired. pathetec

 

I have a relative who is a casual, great guy, smart guy, but doesn't know a tonne of baseball stuff.

 

When I mentioned Vladdy he makes a point to emphasize that AA acquired him.

 

He is royally pissed they released Goins as that would of solved the short stop "problem".

 

He tells me that the front office messed up Tulo and Donaldson, and that AA would of kept them on the field. It' all about the relationship with the trainers.

 

He hates Shapiro to an extreme and claims he won't watch the Jays until Shapiro is gone. He says he was a jerk in moneyball and is a jerk now.

[saskjayfan]

huge difference here ,in oakland he had the future ahead of him now he cant get healthy, and whatever one wants to say, the front office would be insane to want to build around him after he has shown he cant get on the field in two years

 

He put up a 5.1 win season last year, which is pretty impressive for a guy that didn't see the field. The guy has a calf injury. We're not talking about a pitcher with a shoulder injury, or a knee injury. We're talking about a calf injury. This shouldn't be something medical science shouldn't be able to solve. I've never heard of a guy's calf injury ending his career. We're not talking about building around him. We are talking about a 1 year contract for a guy who could return to being a 5 to 6 win player for 18 million dollars.

[saskjayfan]

I have a relative who is a casual, great guy, smart guy, but doesn't know a tonne of baseball stuff.

 

When I mentioned Vladdy he makes a point to emphasize that AA acquired him.

 

He is royally pissed they released Goins as that would of solved the short stop "problem".

 

He tells me that the front office messed up Tulo and Donaldson, and that AA would of kept them on the field. It' all about the relationship with the trainers.

 

He hates Shapiro to an extreme and claims he won't watch the Jays until Shapiro is gone. He says he was a jerk in moneyball and is a jerk now.

 

My dislike with Shatkins are their aversion to risk. Some times you need to roll the dice.

[Olerud363]

FTFY /s

 

He is a fat teenager with bad knees. This just means there is a level of risk here, that there wouldn't be if he had a better physique and didn't miss 5 weeks this year.

 

The good news is he came back and hit well. It wasn't a Tulo/Donaldson situation where he was 3 days away from "running the bases" for several months (which was my fear and so far I've been wrong about that).

 

After not walking for a month and bottoming out at .260 Bichette has returned to 2017 form... so maybe, just maybe that gives us back a second super prospect to hang our hats on...

 

Or maybe Bichette still doesn't walk enough, after bottoming out he passed my stat scouting by walking a reasonable amount lately... but I heard Tercet think he's still too impatient. That could be based on real scouting and video of Bichette swinging at bad pitches. I don't know....

[Pendleton]

I have a relative who is a casual, great guy, smart guy, but doesn't know a tonne of baseball stuff.

 

When I mentioned Vladdy he makes a point to emphasize that AA acquired him.

 

He is royally pissed they released Goins as that would of solved the short stop "problem".

 

He tells me that the front office messed up Tulo and Donaldson, and that AA would of kept them on the field. It' all about the relationship with the trainers.

 

He hates Shapiro to an extreme and claims he won't watch the Jays until Shapiro is gone. He says he was a jerk in moneyball and is a jerk now.

 

Doesn't he realize Shapiro got his comeuppance when Beane completely owned him at the trade deadline?

[Olerud363]

My dislike with Shatkins are their aversion to risk. Some times you need to roll the dice.

 

What specific risks do you think they should take which they haven't??

[BTS]

What specific risks do you think they should take which they haven't??

 

The most obvious opportunities for risk have been extensions for stars approaching free agency (Donaldson, Price, Encarnacion, Bautista) or long-term extensions for younger established players (Travis, Sanchez, Stroman).

[Boxcar]

The most obvious opportunities for risk have been extensions for stars approaching free agency (Donaldson, Price, Encarnacion, Bautista) or long-term extensions for younger established players (Travis, Sanchez, Stroman).

 

I see wut u did thar

[saskjayfan]

What specific risks do you think they should take which they haven't??

 

We traded, for Grichuk, Diaz, Solarte. We signed Granderson, Estrada, Garcia. I'd rather trade a bit more prospect capital and get a difference maker or spend more on one player to get a difference maker and go with youth. There really wasn't much in free agency this year, but Yellich was the one that got away. I do believe they could have got that deal done without Vlad. I think if they look at the prospects they could have parted with to get Yellilch and looked at the years some of those prospects had, they will have regrets.

 

It's just a sense of what I believe is their style. Pulling off the big trade can make you look like a fool sometimes. They may surprise me and make the big trade at some point or make a big free agent signing in the next couple years. I just don't see it though.

[saskjayfan]

The most obvious opportunities for risk have been extensions for stars approaching free agency (Donaldson, Price, Encarnacion, Bautista) or long-term extensions for younger established players (Travis, Sanchez, Stroman).

 

How about Yellich for Bo, Alford and a couple lower level prospects? Now alford's stock has dropped a lot after this year, and Bo's stock has taken a slight dip. Your man love for Shatkins runs deep. We'll see if they can get the Jays to the playoffs in the next 7 years.

[BTS]

How about Yellich for Bo, Alford and a couple lower level prospects? Now alford's stock has dropped a lot after this year, and Bo's stock has taken a slight dip. Your man love for Shatkins runs deep. We'll see if they can get the Jays to the playoffs in the next 7 years.

 

Yeah, obviously that would be nice. Who knows if it was on the table.

[Boxcar]

Yeah, obviously that would be nice. Who knows if it was on the table.

 

Apparently he does. Can you not appreciate that we have a clairvoyant member of the board?

[saskjayfan]

Apparently he does. Can you not appreciate that we have a clairvoyant member of the board?

 

so you can't look for what he was actually traded for, and reasonably assume what it would have taken to get him? I've pretty much acknowledged that Shatkins have done some really good moves in their time here. I'm not saying their terrible. I just think their handling of the Donaldson situation is pretty much their MO. They don't like risk.

[justafan]

I'm gonna enjoy hearing what this is all about. A sore calf and basically misses the entire season. Someone f***ed up here.

 

Totally agree. Something is not right.

[Brownie19]

so you can't look for what he was actually traded for, and reasonably assume what it would have taken to get him? I've pretty much acknowledged that Shatkins have done some really good moves in their time here. I'm not saying their terrible. I just think their handling of the Donaldson situation is pretty much their MO. They don't like risk.

 

Go read what BTS posted and thanks the f***ing heaven's they didn't roll the dice man.

[saskjayfan]

Go read what BTS posted and thanks the f***ing heaven's they didn't roll the dice man.

 

There isn't a GM in the game that would have offered Bautista an extension at the years and dollars he was talking about. No one was going to pay price the dollars the Sox did. They offered Eddie 4 years 20 mil and Eddie gets paid to hit. I think he'll be put up an ops north of .800 this year and the next two. No GM would have offered Travis an extension. A more aggressive GM would have offered Sanchez and Stroman deals. Sometimes they work out sometimes they don't. I'm not sure what either pitcher will be down the road.

 

I'm not saying the manner in which Shatkins runs a team is any less likely to produce a playoff team than a more aggressive management style. My preference is the latter. Donaldson will be traded at the end of the day for a player who will most likely never make the majors. Many on here will champion the move for being able to trade Donaldson. I am on the opposite end of this. I think they should offer him the QO. It's just my opinion.

[Pendleton]

FWIW

 

https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/956673492728020993?s=19

[BTS]

FWIW

 

https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/956673492728020993?s=19

 

Can someone post this for those of us who can't see the twitter at work?

[metafour]

Can someone post this for those of us who can't see the twitter at work?

 

It says that Miami wouldn't do a deal with us unless Vlad was in it. Once we said no, they imediately went with Milwaukee's offer.

 

I.E: saskjayfan is stupid.

[Maahfaace]

What do you guys think would be a realistic return from the Cards if the Jays do work out a deal involving JD? Seth Elledge? Wadye Ynfante? PTBNL?

[LGBJ29]

maybe we'll get Connor Greene back

[saskjayfan]

It says that Miami wouldn't do a deal with us unless Vladd was in it. Once we said no, they imediately went with Milwaukee's offer.

 

I.E: saskjayfan is stupid.

 

They didn't get anything approaching Vlad from Milwaukee. The Jays offered Bo plus 2 or 3 lower level prospects. Miami may have said we want Vlad plust 2 or 3 lower level prospects. That doesn't mean you couldn't have offered Bo plus Alford plus a couple other decent prospects and got a deal done. There's conjecture in the tweet, there's conjecture in my theory. No one really knows what would have gotten a deal done. Bo plus Alford plus a couple other prospects would have been viewed just as good or better than what they got at the beginning of the season from Milwaukee.

 

You guys feel the need to try and prove right or wrong on subjects that are clearly subjective and where all the facts clearly aren't known.

[BTS]

They didn't get anything approaching Vlad from Milwaukee. The Jays offered Bo plus 2 or 3 lower level prospects. Miami may have said we want Vlad plust 2 or 3 lower level prospects. That doesn't mean you couldn't have offered Bo plus Alford plus a couple other decent prospects and got a deal done. There's conjecture in the tweet, there's conjecture in my theory. No one really knows what would have gotten a deal done. Bo plus Alford plus a couple other prospects would have been viewed just as good or better than what they got at the beginning of the season from Milwaukee.

 

You guys feel the need to try and prove right or wrong on subjects that are clearly subjective and where all the facts clearly aren't known.

 

Bichette and Brinson were similarly valued by prospect lists before the season, but it might be that Miami's internal valuations had Brinson significantly higher than Bichette. If Toronto could have had Yelich for, like, Bichette, Alford, SRF, and some guy I'm sure they would have done it.

[Grant77]

What do you guys think would be a realistic return from the Cards if the Jays do work out a deal involving JD? Seth Elledge? Wadye Ynfante? PTBNL?

 

If we're eating salary, I would expect some decent SP depth like Ryan Helsley. Our FO hasn't shown much interest in low level prospects.

[Laika]

How about Yellich for Bo, Alford and a couple lower level prospects? Now alford's stock has dropped a lot after this year, and Bo's stock has taken a slight dip. Your man love for Shatkins runs deep. We'll see if they can get the Jays to the playoffs in the next 7 years.

 

You guys feel the need to try and prove right or wrong on subjects that are clearly subjective and where all the facts clearly aren't known.

 

You are the one taking a position here that the FO should have done a specific thing that didn't happen, my friend.

 

Apparently you "feel the need" to do such and such with respect to such things insofaras you have herein outlined

[BTS]

You are the one taking a position here that the FO should have done a specific thing that didn't happen, my friend.

 

Apparently you "feel the need" to do such and such with respect to such things insofaras you have herein outlined

 

This guy knows bird law

[saskjayfan]

You are the one taking a position here that the FO should have done a specific thing that didn't happen, my friend.

 

Apparently you "feel the need" to do such and such with respect to such things insofaras you have herein outlined

 

I was asked for a specific example of something Shatkins should have done. I outlined what I thought they could have and should have done and even capitulated to the point to suggest I'm not sure it could have been done, but I believe it could have been done. I've even said I don't believe they are bad baseball people. There are many approaches to the game and more than one approach can provide success. I simply outlined a preference for a different management style. I know that many people here love Shatkins. I totally understand why people would feel that way. Maybe Donaldson won't be moved today, and I will feel better about the dynamic duo.

[Grant77]

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Brewers are after Granderson. He'd be a nice fit and deserves to play for a contender. I'd let him go for a bag of balls.

[Boxcar]

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Brewers are after Granderson. He'd be a nice fit and deserves to play for a contender. I'd let him go for a bag of balls.

 

Board overlord Spanky99 has already established that Granderson will not be traded. Please do not violate this rule again, thank you.

 

- BJMB Moderation Team