Toronto Blue Jays Rebuilding Thread

[StubbinHub]

My prize is dirt cheap tickets, elbow room at the games and satisfaction.

[4thOFan]

Benintendi for Donaldson, lol

[Jonn]

My prize is dirt cheap tickets, elbow room at the games and satisfaction.

 

Yea.... We all miss the gloomy dome days of 11k. That weird echo that's in the ballpark when nobody is there and being able to hear the beer vendors loud and clear on our television.

[Pendleton]

Yea.... We all miss the gloomy dome days of 11k. That weird echo that's in the ballpark when nobody is there and being able to hear the beer vendors loud and clear on our television.

 

Basically like watching a game in Tampa.

[StubbinHub]

No worries, it'll still be full of hipsters and clueless hordes on giveaway weekends. Weeknight games will be crickets chirping.

[GD]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/04/mark-shapiro-not-looking-to-overhaul-blue-jays-despite-1-9-start.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

“Less than 10 games in, this is not the time to start looking at external help,” says Shapiro, issuing the standard line executives (mostly correctly) use when their teams struggle in April. “There may be a time and a place when you start to think about that, but you’re not going to replace five hitters.”

 

Indeed, teams are rarely willing to make big trades in April, either as buyers or sellers, and teams’ early-season problems can be misdiagnosed due to sample-size issues. The Blue Jays have scored just 2.8 runs per game thus far, and Devon Travis, Russell Martin, Jose Bautista and Steve Pearce in particular have struggled. With what would appear to be a good veteran lineup, though, that could change in time. Shapiro says the team is now focused on making the most of the talent it has.

“When it goes collectively as badly as it does right now with our offence, a lot of what we’re dealing with is we need to get to a point where guys stop trying to do too much and stop trying to take responsibility for it individually,” says Shapiro.

And as Shapiro also notes, the team’s pitching has been capable. The team has gotten good performances thus far from Marcus Stroman and relievers Joe Biagini, Joe Smith, Ryan Tepera and Aaron Loup in particular, and J.A. Happ currently has 17 strikeouts and no walks despite posting a 5.40 ERA in the early going.

“Not everything is wrong,” says Shapiro. “We’re pitching well, dominant at times, there are a lot of good things going on both in the rotation and in our bullpen and we’re playing good defense. We’re not looking at overhauling the entire team.”

[Daniel Labude]

We need to trade all of our FA to be pitchers and hitters at the deadline if we are out of it. Start the rebuild quickly.

Tra ding Donaldson for the best package available may be needed as well (most like in the offseason).

 

Stroman

Sanchez

Osuna

 

Should be the only players we keep and build around. Also try and get out from the Martin and Tulo contracts if therequired is a good deal available

[glory]

Yep, my thought was Donaldson for Conforto+more as well. Seems like a good fit.

[L54]

This thread suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Then don't open it Spanky. It's obvious that you want to cheer really hard and keep a positive attitude about the team, which is great. But there is a very real possibility that selling before the deadline makes sense for this team. What better place than a Blue Jays message board to discuss the possibility.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

We need to trade all of our FA to be pitchers and hitters at the deadline if we are out of it. Start the rebuild quickly.

Tra ding Donaldson for the best package available may be needed as well (most like in the offseason).

 

Stroman

Sanchez

Osuna

 

Should be the only players we keep and build around. Also try and get out from the Martin and Tulo contracts if therequired is a good deal available

 

Osuna should be one of the first players we trade due to his injury risk. We should be able to get a huge haul for him too.

[Daniel Labude]

Osuna should be one of the first players we trade due to his injury risk. We should be able to get a huge haul for him too.

 

We could, probably depends on how much the other players could net us

[bzapple]

Benintendi for Donaldson, lol

 

Easy to laugh off maybe, but a lot of Benintendi's value depends on what he does this season. He's in a very similar position to where Brett Lawrie was following 2011. Top prospect who comes up for a couple months and looks like a stud. People were putting Lawrie on the same tier as Trout at that point. Obviously, the 2012 season made that look ridiculous.

 

Benintendi could be a star, but he isn't yet.

[glory]

Out of the "young players" on this team, I think Pillar and Osuna can/should be traded if they decide to rebuild. Don't need a closer on a rebuilding team (sign some cheap rec projects every year until you develop another one), and Pillar as he gets expensive and older will start to lose value as it's unlikely he will keep this level of D for the next 3 years, and he's a s*** hitter. If Pompey isn't completely broken, just put him at CF and let him sink or swim in that role until someone better comes along.

[Spanky99]

Then don't open it Spanky. It's obvious that you want to cheer really hard and keep a positive attitude about the team, which is great. But there is a very real possibility that selling before the deadline makes sense for this team. What better place than a Blue Jays message board to discuss the possibility.

 

So talk about it then. Sorry dad.

[glory]

The only reason Benintendi might be realistic is because you'd be dealing with Dave Dumnbrowski. That man is AA on steroids when it comes to trading prospects.

 

Otherwise, yeah, that's kind of far fetched.

[BTS]

Out of the "young players" on this team, I think Pillar and Osuna can/should be traded if they decide to rebuild. Don't need a closer on a rebuilding team (sign some cheap rec projects every year until you develop another one), and Pillar as he gets expensive and older will start to lose value as it's unlikely he will keep this level of D for the next 3 years, and he's a s*** hitter. If Pompey isn't completely broken, just put him at CF and let him sink or swim in that role until someone better comes along.

 

I don't think there are any players on the 25-man that you keep if the team actually does go into a down cycle. Maybe Travis if he gets healthy.

 

Pillar - defense only guy in his age-28 season

Osuna - closer, who is at the apex of his value now. No don't keep relievers through a rebuild.

Sanchez - pitcher, only three years of team control after this season

Stroman - pitcher, only three years of team control after this season

 

If you're at the point where you're trading Donaldson, the team simply isn't going to be doing much winning. At that point, keeping pitchers that will be on free agent deals by the time the team is ready is bad business. Scorched earth rebuild would be the best option. I don't want the next version of this team to be built around Stroman and Sanchez on 120M contracts.

[baubau]

I don't think there are any players on the 25-man that you keep if the team actually does go into a down cycle. Maybe Travis if he gets healthy.

 

Pillar - defense only guy in his age-28 season

Osuna - closer, who is at the apex of his value now. No don't keep relievers through a rebuild.

Sanchez - pitcher, only three years of team control after this season

Stroman - pitcher, only three years of team control after this season

 

If you're at the point where you're trading Donaldson, the team simply isn't going to be doing much winning. At that point, keeping pitchers that will be on free agent deals by the time the team is ready is bad business. Scorched earth rebuild would be the best option. I don't want the next version of this team to be built around Stroman and Sanchez on 120M contracts.

 

Jays are in an interesting position where half of the roster is controllable for a decent while. When was the last time a team a rebuilding team traded pitchers that had years of control? I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, I am just wondering if there has ever been an example of it.

[KevinGregg]

I don't want the next version of this team to be built around Stroman and Sanchez on 120M contracts.

 

Trade them both now and try to sign them back in 3 years if they are on the market

[wk680]

We look forward to you telling us which player you were thinking of once your kid finishes up with their snooty equestrian club.

 

Yoan Moncada was the #1 rated prospect by some prominent outfit (Baseball America?) at the end of last season. And he went with the fireballer Kopech in the Chris Sale trade. So maybe Moncada is the one he was thinking of. Or maybe Rizzo?

[BTS]

Jays are in an interesting position where half of the roster is controllable for a decent while. When was the last time a team a rebuilding team traded pitchers that had years of control? I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, I am just wondering if there has ever been an example of it.

 

I like what the White Sox just did with Eaton and Sale and what they attempted with Quintana. W, all of whom had 3+ years remaining. With pitching especially, if the team isn't going to be good for 2-3 years, I just don't see a reason to sit on Stroman and Sanchez's last three years. All of this under the hypothetical situation in which things are bad enough that a Donaldson trade becomes reality.

[bzapple]

Trade them both now and try to sign them back in 3 years if they are on the market

 

So, trade them in their primes, giving up on this season, and then handcuff the team with large contracts to pitchers in their 30s. Good stuff.

[CrackerJack]

so the board consensus for the 2017 Blue Jays was something like 89 wins and a 2nd WC birth, and after two times thru the rotation, it's turned to blow it up haha

[StubbinHub]

My prediction was 81-84 wins and 4-5 games out of a playoff spot, 12-15 behind the Sox in the East. That was a rosy prediction.

[Jonn]

so the board consensus for the 2017 Blue Jays was something like 89 wins and a 2nd WC birth, and after two times thru the rotation, it's turned to blow it up haha

 

Well when you start 1-9. Lose your best player for a few weeks and watch Pillar and Zeke hit 1st and second yes. We are already 6.5 games out of first place lol.

[CrackerJack]

Well when you start 1-9. Lose your best player for a few weeks and watch Pillar and Zeke hit 1st and second yes. We are already 6.5 games out of first place lol.

 

could also look at it like ... most pick the Red Sox to win the division and we're 4 back of them with 19 games left between us (and 150 left on the sched.)

 

edit : 152 left (haha)

[Daniel Labude]

I think we could have a quick rebuild if we signed Stroman and Sanchez to an extension and traded Estrada, Happ, Osuna, Bautista, and Tulo at the deadline. We would have a solid core pitching, with great offensive potential in the minors and in 2-3 years we might be able to be back to competing with the top of the division. If we needed to we could grade Donaldson as well and we could be looking great in a few years. No need to trade away young star quality pitchers....if they are willing to sign an extension

[BTS]

so the board consensus for the 2017 Blue Jays was something like 89 wins and a 2nd WC birth, and after two times thru the rotation, it's turned to blow it up haha

 

I don't think anyone wants it blown up yet. That conversation is still two months away.

[Jonn]

could also look at it like ... most pick the Red Sox to win the division and we're 4 back of them with 19 games left between us (and 150 left on the sched.)

 

They have to overcome a lot including the fact that no 1-9 team has ever made the playoffs in the history of Baseball.

[glory]

I don't think there are any players on the 25-man that you keep if the team actually does go into a down cycle. Maybe Travis if he gets healthy.

 

Pillar - defense only guy in his age-28 season

Osuna - closer, who is at the apex of his value now. No don't keep relievers through a rebuild.

Sanchez - pitcher, only three years of team control after this season

Stroman - pitcher, only three years of team control after this season

 

If you're at the point where you're trading Donaldson, the team simply isn't going to be doing much winning. At that point, keeping pitchers that will be on free agent deals by the time the team is ready is bad business. Scorched earth rebuild would be the best option. I don't want the next version of this team to be built around Stroman and Sanchez on 120M contracts.

 

That works if you're going to gut everything and start from scratch, which is probably the better way to go if they are trading Donaldson, but a team owned by Rogers probably isn't going to risk it. I'd be pleasantly surprised if they let Shatkins trade Donaldson if the team is out of it, but even if that were to happen, then they may want to keep Sanchez and Stroman to at least give fans a reason to show up to the park.

 

It wouldn't shock me if the team keeps Donaldson, trades some vets at the deadline, and then tries to win again in 2018. Not because Shatkins wants it, but because Rogers wouldn't want revenue to plummet short term.

[Ray]

I would trade Osuna for sure. The prices for good relievers right now are insane, and that bubble will pop soon. Take advantage while you can.