General 2017 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[closetjaysfan]

It's so depressing when you invest so much time as a fan and the season is essentially over already. I have absolutely no reason to tune in anymore. I mean if there were some good young players to watch develop, grow, etc. but there is nothing of that to be seen unless Tellez is called up. I'll need to find a new escape from real life.

 

I'm gonna have to gut this season out as my 6 year old son won't care that it's all for not and I certainly don't want to ruin it for him. It's a sad reality. Everyone is going to have to find their own way to make the best out of it.

 

Pretty much defined yourself as a casual. We have all stuck out worse than this.... more than 20 years worth

[Krylian]

Pretty much defined yourself as a casual. We have all stuck out worse than this.... more than 20 years worth

 

Not accepting garbage doesn't make you a casual.

[LGBJ29]

If they do continue this tailspin and go the rebuild route, I'm still gonna watch when its convenient but not to the extent of what Im used to. Last year I rushed home to make sure I didnt miss first pitch and would record games I missed. I'll follow them closely obviously and watch what I can, but won't go out of my way. Im sure most people here will do the same

[Boxcar]

http://i.imgur.com/hoILFpH.png

 

woof

 

Holy jeeze, look at them BABIPs

[Terminator]

If they do continue this tailspin and go the rebuild route, I'm still gonna watch when its convenient but not to the extent of what Im used to. Last year I rushed home to make sure I didnt miss first pitch and would record games I missed. I'll follow them closely obviously and watch what I can, but won't go out of my way. Im sure most people here will do the same

 

I'll watch them all until the weather gets hot and vacations start happening and I get burnt out. I'll check the scores every day but will probably watch 2-3 a week.

[fireballW]

It shows how much these players care. How many on this forum are ready to throw this team under the bus?

 

Would not throw the team under the bus, just Shapiro. Team didn't have fade this quick. Shapiro is shrewd but just did not have the creativity of AA. Not what people want to hear but at least AA had as much passion as the players.

[Maahfaace]

Would not throw the team under the bus, just Shapiro. Team didn't have fade this quick. Shapiro is shrewd but just did not have the creativity of AA. Not what people want to hear but at least AA had as much passion as the players.

 

Babble

[LGBJ29]

Would not throw the team under the bus, just Shapiro. Team didn't have fade this quick. Shapiro is shrewd but just did not have the creativity of AA. Not what people want to hear but at least AA had as much passion as the players.

 

yeah Shapiro should have known Pearce Travis and Martin would combine for a negative wRC+ in the first 12 games. What a f***in dumbass

[Jonn]

Holy jeeze, look at them BABIPs

 

Martin's BABIP is pretty telling. He's striking out to much but gets absolutely zero luck on balls put in play.

[BTS]

It's tough to blame Shapiro when Tulo, Bautista, Martin and Travis have sucked. That's AA's core. Hell, the AA guys he's let walk either haven't played (Price) or are stinking up the joint as badly as the guys still here (Edwin and Saunders).

[Dick_Pole]

Yeah I think the chances of climbing out of a 2-10 start are pretty much slim and none.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx

 

17.8% chance according to Fangraphs. It was about as low as this mid-May last season when the team was in the dumps. Of course being this low in mid-April is a hell of a lot tougher to do than it is in mid-May.

[Dick_Pole]

It's tough to blame Shapiro when Tulo, Bautista, Martin and Travis have sucked. That's AA's core. Hell, the AA guys he's let walk either haven't played (Price) or are stinking up the joint as badly as the guys still here (Edwin and Saunders).

 

I generally agree with your sentiment, but this post is lame. If Shapiro was THAT convinced that Travis and Bautista would have sucked he would have traded the former for other useful players and not signed the latter. Plus all of this board's favourite whipping boys Smoak, Carrera and Goins are all fully on the shoulders of the new regime for having stuck it on this roster this long. Martin and Tulowitzki are all AA's doing, but no new front office in baseball comes into a job with a completely clean slate.

 

You can blame the lack of MLB-ready prospects on AA, and you can give full credit to the new regime for supplementing Sanchez and Stroman with good contracts to fill out one of the best 1-5 starting staffs in the league. But the lineup is all on Shapiro and Atkins.

[Krylian]

It's tough to blame Shapiro when Tulo, Bautista, Martin and Travis have sucked. That's AA's core. Hell, the AA guys he's let walk either haven't played (Price) or are stinking up the joint as badly as the guys still here (Edwin and Saunders).

 

AA may have brought most of the guys in but Shapiro decided they were good enough to keep, even when the writing was on the wall last season and you could see them getting older, and not better.

[Krylian]

Blaming AA for Bautista when Shapiro re-signed him is kind of silly.

 

I'm still hoping Bautista turns it around so we decline the option, qualify him, and have someone else sign him...and get that 1st rounder that I wanted for him this off-season.

[z3r0s]

I think that ship has sailed with the new comp system no?

[Bobthe4th]

I'm still hoping Bautista turns it around so we decline the option, qualify him, and have someone else sign him...and get that 1st rounder that I wanted for him this off-season.

 

Under the new rules you can't qualify a player twice so that's not an option.

[Atothe]

12 games in, no time. Lol

[Atothe]

All I got to say is, JD is a complete ******* for trying to play when he was hurt

[BTS]

I generally agree with your sentiment, but this post is lame. If Shapiro was THAT convinced that Travis and Bautista would have sucked he would have traded the former for other useful players and not signed the latter. Plus all of this board's favourite whipping boys Smoak, Carrera and Goins are all fully on the shoulders of the new regime for having stuck it on this roster this long. Martin and Tulowitzki are all AA's doing, but no new front office in baseball comes into a job with a completely clean slate.

 

You can blame the lack of MLB-ready prospects on AA, and you can give full credit to the new regime for supplementing Sanchez and Stroman with good contracts to fill out one of the best 1-5 starting staffs in the league. But the lineup is all on Shapiro and Atkins.

 

They're playing the hand they were dealt. I don't think anyone thought it was ideal to enter the season with a core of 30+ year old guys and no prospects close, but nobody would have been convinced that any of them, individually, was going to fall of a cliff in a given season. My point is that this team's eventual failure is going to happen because the core AA built around aged out with nothing in the system coming to replace them. If Martin, Tulo, Travis, and Bautista hang on another year the team should be alright. If they fall off a cliff... well, we're seeing what that looks like. I hate that Smoak, Goins, and Carrera are on the team, but no amount of peripheral additions is going to make up for a mid-30s core that's hitting free agency and/or seeing steep decline one after another.

[BTS]

Blaming AA for Bautista when Shapiro re-signed him is kind of silly.

 

It's not as simple as blaming someone for Bautista. It was the right move to bring him back for 1/18 or whatever. Neither AA nor Shapiro should have traded him. The problem is that, more generally, the entire core of the team are old guys on free agent contracts, and it's impossible to predict when these guys are going to hit a cliff.

[Spanky99]

I guess there's been no word on Happ, yet? Man, we're f***ed.

[CrackerJack]

The entire core of the team is not old guys on free agent contracts. AA actually only brought in two, those being Tulo and Martin.

 

Unless you are upset that he acquired Estrada and Shapiro re-signed him?

 

Otherwise, I'd add Donaldson, Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Pillar and Travis to the core. Obviously none of them are old guys on free agent contracts.

 

Shapiro actually added Bautista and Morales who are both old guys on free agent contracts. And you can throw in Grilli, Joe Smith and Howell if you want. He did also sign Happ who is an old guy on a free agent contract.

 

yeah, and who would've preferred that AA didn't sign Martin and didn't do the Tulo deal?

[Terminator]

If we resigned Donaldson we could re-tool instead of rebuild. The problem is we don't have many trade assets outside of him and not many prospects coming up. The thought of tearing this thing down and taking 4-5 years to rebuild it hurts my heart though.

[Jimcanuck]

If we resigned Donaldson we could re-tool instead of rebuild.

 

I don't know. By the time there are enough good supplementary pieces Donaldson might be s***.

 

Would be like having a Trout on a s*** team.

[TBJ12]

AA may have brought most of the guys in but Shapiro decided they were good enough to keep, even when the writing was on the wall last season and you could see them getting older, and not better.

 

The writing was on the wall while they played in the ALCS? How about when they swept the Rangers in ALDS?

[burlingtonbandit]

If we resigned Donaldson we could re-tool instead of rebuild. The problem is we don't have many trade assets outside of him and not many prospects coming up. The thought of tearing this thing down and taking 4-5 years to rebuild it hurts my heart though.

 

I think you could compete by 2019 and be good by 2020. They'll have lots of money to spend don't forget.

[Terminator]

I think you could compete by 2019 and be good by 2020. They'll have lots of money to spend don't forget.

 

Without Donaldson and little help on the way I'm not so sure about that. I guess it'd largely depend on what kind of return we'd get on Donaldson.

[burlingtonbandit]

Without Donaldson and little help on the way I'm not so sure about that. I guess it'd largely depend on what kind of return we'd get on Donaldson.

 

Well I'm assuming you would be getting back some serious minor league talent for all the guys you would be trading (JD, Osuna, Happ, Estrada, Liraino etc...)

[Bobthe4th]

yeah, and who would've preferred that AA didn't sign Martin and didn't do the Tulo deal?

 

I doubt you'll find many who would roll back that trade and take Jose Reyes back.

[Orgfiller]

If we resigned Donaldson we could re-tool instead of rebuild. The problem is we don't have many trade assets outside of him and not many prospects coming up. The thought of tearing this thing down and taking 4-5 years to rebuild it hurts my heart though.

I think Shatkins are all about retooling. I don't think we'll be seeing a full scale tear down any time soon. Also it's been mentioned before, but when you have a player of Donaldson's caliber, you try to make the most of his time here.