Cardinals to Sign Dexter Fowler

[reedjohnsonfan]

Seems reasonable considering they had a glaring hole in the OF. Good move.

[Brownie19]

Contract basically = his fair value.

 

Losing the draft pick means St Louis essentially pays $92-95M in value. That's the push they had to make to get him.

 

+ full NTC? F that.

[Pendleton]

Contract basically = his fair value.

 

Losing the draft pick means St Louis essentially pays $92-95M in value. That's the push they had to make to get him.

 

Yeah that's a huge commitment they're making, and if he would have wanted more to talk him into playing RF, that number for us may have been $100M+.

[Grant77]

 

We were smart to not touch that deal. I'd rather give up a prospect for a comparable outfielder like Granderson than be stuck with Fowler in 2020 and 2021.

[Jonn]

Fowler is a good player. But he doesn't project well in CF long term. I feel they certainly overpaid and glad we didn't go there.

 

Apparently St. Louis is looking to spend accordingly to Rosenthal. Maybe they are talking to Edwin.

[burlingtonbandit]

Fowler is a good player. But he doesn't project well in CF long term. I feel they certainly overpaid and glad we didn't go there.

 

Apparently St. Louis is looking to spend accordingly to Rosenthal. Maybe they are talking to Edwin.

 

With no DH they would have to make a trade? My guess is Peralta and Carpenter plays 3rd.

[fatcowxlive]

Contract basically = his fair value.

 

Losing the draft pick means St Louis essentially pays $92-95M in value. That's the push they had to make to get him.

 

I'm glad we checked out, we can get Bautista for less and on more team friendly terms

[puphood]

Derrick Goold and Ben Frederickson of the St. Louis Dispatch are reporting that after signing Fowler the Cardinals could become “more aggressive than previously believed” in their pursuit of both Encarnacion and Baltimore Orioles slugger Mark Trumbo.?????

[JFD]

f*** that NTC bs.

[Governator]

The Jays must have played hard for Fowler to force the Cards to go that high to land him and have to include a full NTC.

[BlueJays]

Ugh. They are stuck with Bautista. Goddamit

[Krylian]

That Fowler deal isn't a gross overpayment...not at all.

 

If all you look for is making sure the value is there at all cost then you're gonna be stuck standing still forever.

[SweetSmellingChacin]

The numbers on the Fowler contract are very fair. The NTC is dicey, but STL is trying to win now and sometimes you have to take risks to win.

[BTS]

5/82.5 + a 1st round pick + a full NTC is an enormous commitment for a player like Fowler.

[Santoki]

That Fowler deal isn't a gross overpayment...not at all.

 

If all you look for is making sure the value is there at all cost then you're gonna be stuck standing still forever.

 

I wouldn't say that's the entire strategy we've employed as a franchise, but there has to come a point where you have to say no. That 5th year and a full NTC is a reasonable point to say that, imo.

[Pendleton]

The Jays must have played hard for Fowler to force the Cards to go that high to land him and have to include a full NTC.

 

I didn't read about any other serious suitors and if it was a two horse race we must have done something to drive that price up.

[TorontonianJD]

I don't see it from Pillars perspective

 

Smoak's wife is hotter than Pillar's IMO. Gorgeous face.

[BTS]

I wonder what Toronto's price would have been. 82.5 was the price to play CF in St. Louis. Playing RF on turf in Canada would have cost, what, 5/90?

[saskjayfan]

5/82.5 + a 1st round pick + a full NTC is an enormous commitment for a player like Fowler.

 

you don't sign free agents that give you the ability to compete without making enormous commitments. If we don't make any bad or potentially bad/scary deals, we may as well sell players now. What's the point of not making bad deals and having extra money in our pocket going into the year if we can't compete. An 84 to 86 win team is the worst team to have in baseball...ask the mariners. We may as well offload Martin, Donaldson and Tulo and save the money for future years.

[Governator]

That Fowler deal isn't a gross overpayment...not at all.

 

If all you look for is making sure the value is there at all cost then you're gonna be stuck standing still forever.

 

 

Compared to the initial offers of $60MM and the fact that his agent was reportedly chasing $72MM... I'd say it's about the max bid any team would go, not to mention surrendering their first pick of next year's draft in the process and giving a full no trade clause which only adds to their total investment. How much bigger would the Jays have had to go to land him and when is it considered an overpay?

[TheHurl]

Cubs have a CF platoon of Jon Jay and Albert Almora, and have a boatload of money, but weren't in on Fowler. That was the odd part for me.

[fatcowxlive]

That Fowler deal isn't a gross overpayment...not at all.

 

If all you look for is making sure the value is there at all cost then you're gonna be stuck standing still forever.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing the $ amount. 'Cost' is more than just how much money, the NTC is a sting (essentially you're on the hook for the contract throughout the 5 years) and you lose a first round pick.

[BTS]

you don't sign free agents that give you the ability to compete without making enormous commitments. If we don't make any bad or potentially bad/scary deals, we may as well sell players now. What's the point of not making bad deals and having extra money in our pocket going into the year if we can't compete. A 84 to 86 win team is the worst team to have in baseball...ask the mariners. We may as well offload Martin, Donaldson and Tulo and save the money for future years.

 

I guess you missed the last 12 months? Here's a recap:

 

The team made smart low risk additions (Happ, Estrada, Grilli etc...), and made the ALCS without doing any damage to their long term flexibility.

 

I'm curious to know: of all the players who signed for more money last offseason, assuming a payroll of ~165M, how many of them would you trade Estrada for? How many would you trade Happ for?

[Grant77]

That Fowler deal isn't a gross overpayment...not at all.

 

If all you look for is making sure the value is there at all cost then you're gonna be stuck standing still forever.

 

I understand the argument that Fowler could possibly give them full value on this contract, even though I find the projections overly optimistic.

 

That being said, the front office also has to look at the remaining players available at this point in the offseason and weigh their options. There are comparably talented outfielders still available and we surely have a read on their price tags.

[BTS]

Compared to the initial offers of $60MM and the fact that his agent was reportedly chasing $72MM... I'd say it's about the max bid any team would go, not to mention surrendering their first pick of next year's draft in the process and giving a full no trade clause which only adds to their total investment. How much bigger would the Jays have had to go to land him and when is it considered an overpay?

 

Given the value of the 1st round pick, and the fact that the NTC has some kind of value, the total value of the commitment to Fowler is in the vicinity of $100M. People need to step back and remember that, while he had a fine season, he's a 31-year old who projects to be a hair above average in 2017.

[TorontonianJD]

you don't sign free agents that give you the ability to compete without making enormous commitments. If we don't make any bad or potentially bad/scary deals, we may as well sell players now. What's the point of not making bad deals and having extra money in our pocket going into the year if we can't compete. An 84 to 86 win team is the worst team to have in baseball...ask the mariners. We may as well offload Martin, Donaldson and Tulo and save the money for future years.

 

Tulo has no trade clause.

[saskjayfan]

I guess you missed the last 12 months? Here's a recap:

 

The team made smart low risk additions (Happ, Estrada, Grilli etc...), and made the ALCS without doing any damage to their long term flexibility.

 

I'm curious to know: of all the players who signed for more money last offseason, assuming a payroll of ~165M, how many of them would you trade Estrada for? How many would you trade Happ for?

 

Happ an Estrada were smart signings, no doubt, but it's not like they got paid nothing. They got paid like number 3s and played like number 2s. They could have played like number 4s. We made the wild card and Sanchez had a break out year. We had a very strong core last year.

 

We've now lost EE, Bats, Cecil, Saunders and Benoit and brought in Pearce and Morales. Are we a better team? Smoak couldn't crack the ALCS roster last year, and we are counting on him to bigger contributor for 162. If this team, doesn't do something else we're just a team that has a shot at a wildcard, rather than being a team that is more of a favourite for a wildcard that can compete with the division. There's still time, but I don't see the team bringing back Bautista. Fowler is still off the board. Our bullpen is thin. I don't see the guy that is the difference maker to put us over the top.

[Santoki]

Tulo has no trade clause.

 

If we were in rebuild mode, I'm sure he would waive it to go to the right team.

[Dr. Dinger]

Given the value of the 1st round pick, and the fact that the NTC has some kind of value, the total value of the commitment to Fowler is in the vicinity of $100M. People need to step back and remember that, while he had a fine season, he's a 31-year old who projects to be a hair above average in 2017.

 

Yeah, 5 years, 1st rdr and NTC, in combination, is a bridge too far.

[BTS]

Happ an Estrada were smart signings, no doubt, but it's not like they got paid nothing. They got paid like number 3s and played like number 2s. They could have played like number 4s. We made the wild card and Sanchez had a break out year. We had a very strong core last year.

 

We've now lost EE, Bats, Cecil, Saunders and Benoit and brought in Pearce and Morales. Are we a better team? Smoak couldn't crack the ALCS roster last year, and we are counting on him to bigger contributor for 162. If this team, doesn't do something else we're just a team that has a shot at a wildcard, rather than being a team that is more of a favourite for a wildcard that can compete with the division. There's still time, but I don't see the team bringing back Bautista. Fowler is still off the board. Our bullpen is thin. I don't see the guy that is the difference maker to put us over the top.

 

Anyone who paid attention and though that this team was going to continue to improve after 2015 had unrealistic expectations. That was never going to happen.