Cardinals to Sign Dexter Fowler

[Abomination]

He was abysmal in the second half. In fact most of his career he's either really good or really bad. I would prefer we find someone who is a little more consistent and athletic. He can play an OF corner but I don't think I want to see him play it everyday. Platoon hides him but he would still see more time in the OF than I would like. If worse comes to worse a cheap power option. But I would like to see us exhaust other options first.

 

He's an average defender in the outfield (below average at 1B).

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I think another good trade target could also be Howie Kendrick. Not really high end at anything, but contributes solidly at everything. Very versatile too, although he's better in the outfield than infield.

[Governator]

This might sound crazy (and extremely optimistic) but hear me out, this is my thought before my 3rd cup of coffee post.

 

Considering Pompey projects to be a about win more than Smoak it might be worth exploring using him everyday in the OF and keeping Smoak on a 1 way ticket to Mars. Fowler would have been such a great pick up but Pearce+Pompey might not be a bad combo either.

 

If we sign Bautista to 1B and use Pearce/Pompey/Upton for LF/RF then what is the collective value lost by swapping Encarnacion & Smoak with Bautista & Morales? Bautista projects as a more valuable bat in 2017 than Edwin and steamer still views him as a 2.8 WAR player. Meanwhile, Pearce + Pompey could bring in more value than what Bautista brought us last year with speed on the bases at the end of our line up.

 

Now a lot has to happen for Bautista to be on par with Edwin or Smoak when it comes to 1B defense but it's not improbable for a former corner infielder to transition there rather quickly.

 

I really don't think we should be so against bringing Bautista back, he is a bounce back candidate available on yet another budget friendly contract.

[Jonn]

He's an average defender in the outfield (below average at 1B).

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I think another good trade target could also be Howie Kendrick. Not really high end at anything, but contributes solidly at everything. Very versatile too, although he's better in the outfield than infield.

 

That's actually kind of suprising. Does Moss project better in LF or RF? If I remember correctly he had a decent arm. It looks like Pearce may play First Base everyday anyway. Perhaps Smoak plays against RHP who don't have good breaking pitches. Kinda sad how useless he is. But it's got to that point,

[Abomination]

This might sound crazy (and extremely optimistic) but hear me out, this is my thought before my 3rd cup of coffee post.

 

Considering Pompey projects to be a about win more than Smoak it might be worth exploring using him everyday in the OF and keeping Smoak on a 1 way ticket to Mars. Fowler would have been such a great pick up but Pearce+Pompey might not be a bad combo either.

 

If we sign Bautista to 1B and use Pearce/Pompey/Upton for LF/RF then what is the collective value lost by swapping Encarnacion & Smoak with Bautista & Morales? Bautista projects as a more valuable bat in 2017 than Edwin and steamer still views him as a 2.8 WAR player. Meanwhile, Pearce + Pompey could bring in more value than what Bautista brought us last year with speed on the bases at the end of our line up.

 

Now a lot has to happen for Bautista to be on par with Edwin or Smoak when it comes to 1B defense but it's not improbable for a former corner infielder to transition there rather quickly.

 

I really don't think we should be so against bringing Bautista back, he is a bounce back candidate available on yet another budget friendly contract.

 

I don't really think anyone is against bringing Bautista back. He wasn't necessarily the first choice, but he's still a very, very good one. I have a feeling HE doesn't want to come back though unless we overpay. He's stated in the past that he feels the team owes him for the budget friendly deal he signed before, and should compensate him for it. He seems stubborn enough to stick to that, even if it costs him.

[Abomination]

That's actually kind of suprising. Does Moss project better in LF or RF? If I remember correctly he had a decent arm. It looks like Pearce may play First Base everyday anyway. Perhaps Smoak plays against RHP who don't have good breaking pitches. Kinda sad how useless he is. But it's got to that point,

 

He seems to be about the same defensively in both fields.

[Brownie19]

This might sound crazy (and extremely optimistic) but hear me out, this is my thought before my 3rd cup of coffee post.

 

Considering Pompey projects to be a about win more than Smoak it might be worth exploring using him everyday in the OF and keeping Smoak on a 1 way ticket to Mars. Fowler would have been such a great pick up but Pearce+Pompey might not be a bad combo either.

 

If we sign Bautista to 1B and use Pearce/Pompey/Upton for LF/RF then what is the collective value lost by swapping Encarnacion & Smoak with Bautista & Morales? Bautista projects as a more valuable bat in 2017 than Edwin and steamer still views him as a 2.8 WAR player. Meanwhile, Pearce + Pompey could bring in more value than what Bautista brought us last year with speed on the bases at the end of our line up.

 

Now a lot has to happen for Bautista to be on par with Edwin or Smoak when it comes to 1B defense but it's not improbable for a former corner infielder to transition there rather quickly.

 

I really don't think we should be so against bringing Bautista back, he is a bounce back candidate available on yet another budget friendly contract.

 

I hear you. You could go a step further and sign Moss instead of Jose and let Pearce play 1st vs. LHP. Moss doesn't have Jose's bat - but we add another draft pick when Jose signs elsewhere. Adding 2 FA's and giving Pompey an opportunity isn't a bad option if we're looking to re-tool this team (while taking a step back in 2017). If everything breaks the right way (Pompey gives you 2+ WAR, Moss gives you 130 wRC+, Pearce plays 150 games, Upton rebounds, etc.) - you could still slide into a playoff spot.

[Terminator]

I would not mind Moss at all. He's average defensively, average bat, average arm, average baserunner....every aspect of his game is pretty well summed up with "league average."

 

Bats left which is good for us. He can also chip in at 1B which is a plus. Sign me up.

[Governator]

I don't really think anyone is against bringing Bautista back. He wasn't necessarily the first choice, but he's still a very, very good one. I have a feeling HE doesn't want to come back though unless we overpay. He's stated in the past that he feels the team owes him for the budget friendly deal he signed before, and should compensate him for it. He seems stubborn enough to stick to that, even if it costs him.

 

 

I'm basically saying by using Bautista at 1B and keeping Smoak off the roster, we might be able to get more value out of this team, even the way it's currently structured, than we did last year with our positional players.

[Terminator]

I'm basically saying by using Bautista at 1B and keeping Smoak off the roster, we might be able to get more value out of this team, even the way it's currently structured, than we did last year with our positional players.

 

I'm all for bringing Bautista back. But I'm not convinced that Bautista at 1B and Pearce in the OF is better than Bautista in the OF and Pearce at 1B. I'd put Bautista in LF though.

[Governator]

I'm all for bringing Bautista back. But I'm not convinced that Bautista at 1B and Pearce in the OF is better than Bautista in the OF and Pearce at 1B. I'd put Bautista in LF though.

 

 

I guess either way works but I really didn't get my point across; Smoak sucks balls and having either Bautista or Pearce play 1B with Pompey in the OF would squeeze more value out of our roster. I'd also argue that if we end up signing Bautista over 3 years I'd rather him transition to 1B sooner than later considering Morales is here for 3 years so he won't be getting much DH time.

[Terminator]

I guess either way works but I really didn't get my point across; Smoak sucks balls and having either Bautista or Pearce play 1B with Pompey in the OF would squeeze more value out of our roster. I'd also argue that if we end up signing Bautista over 3 years I'd rather him transition to 1B sooner than later considering Morales is here for 3 years so he won't be getting much DH time.

 

I hear ya. Pompey is an interesting one. Zips hates him, Steamer thinks he'll be ok. I'd prefer we just sign Moss or something as opposed to rolling the dice on a wild card like Pompey. I completely agree with you about Smoak. I'd hate to see him starting.

[Terminator]

I think the point is, how the f*** can Smoak be on this roster if we're trying to win a WS?

 

Lesser extent: Upton.

 

7 through 9 killed us in the playoffs.

 

Yeah I'm not sold on Upton at all. Not in a platoon and not as a backup. Given that he's free I'd be willing to use him as a 4th OF but I don't really want him seeing a lot of ABs.

[burlingtonbandit]

I would not mind Moss at all. He's average defensively, average bat, average arm, average baserunner....every aspect of his game is pretty well summed up with "league average."

 

Bats left which is good for us. He can also chip in at 1B which is a plus. Sign me up.

 

I'd the bat is above average. Certainly is vs RHP so as long as he's in a platoon he should be an above average player. There is some potential with the batted ball profile too.

[Brownie19]

Yeah I'm not sold on Upton at all. Not in a platoon and not as a backup. Given that he's free I'd be willing to use him as a 4th OF but I don't really want him seeing a lot of ABs.

 

One could argue we'd be better off giving the 4th OF spot to Pompey and see what he can provide. 4th OFers typically get a full season worth of AB's - time to see what the kid has. If Upton is "free" - you might be able to convince some team he's worth a LH reliever.

[Terminator]

I'd the bat is above average. Certainly is vs RHP so as long as he's in a platoon he should be an above average player. There is some potential with the batted ball profile too.

 

93 wRC+ in 2014 and 105 wRC+ in 2016. Projected for a 102 wRC+ in 2017.

[burlingtonbandit]

93 wRC+ in 2014 and 105 wRC+ in 2016. Projected for a 102 wRC+ in 2017.

 

Vs RHP

 

2012 wRC+ 172

2013 wRC+ 150

2014 wRC+ 119

2015 wRC+ 91

2016 wRC+ 114

 

2015 was after he had hip surgery and it was clear he didn't have his usual power the first half of the season.

[Terminator]

Vs RHP

 

2012 wRC+ 172

2013 wRC+ 150

2014 wRC+ 119

2015 wRC+ 91

2016 wRC+ 114

 

2015 was after he had hip surgery and it was clear he didn't have his usual power the first half of the season.

 

Ah ok, I didn't know about the hip surgery.

[burlingtonbandit]

Ah ok, I didn't know about the hip surgery.

 

Looking at his hard hit rate it honestly might have just been bad luck. His hard hit rate and flyball rate was around the same but his ISO and BABIP were down significantly.

 

Anyways I think he's the best available target. 2 years 20-25 Million should get it done I would think.

[Terminator]

Looking at his hard hit rate it honestly might have just been bad luck. His hard hit rate and flyball rate was around the same but his ISO and BABIP were down significantly.

 

Anyways I think he's the best available target. 2 years 20-25 Million should get it done I would think.

 

I'd like that. For some reason I always assumed his defense wasn't good. I think because he's kind of old and plays 1B. Never steals bases so I figured he was slow. But he's actually a much more complete player than people give him credit for.

[RealAccountant]

Is Austin Jackson injured?

[jaysblue]

Sign Bautista to a 1 or 2 year deal and sign Rasmus to platoon with Upton, or trade for Dyson.

 

Would rather have Rasmus over Saunders anyways.

[RealAccountant]

No f***ing rasmus, no one wants that guy here>

[Terminator]

I'd like to know more about Saunders medically. Will he regain any speed after his knee injury? Sometimes I feel like it can take a season before one is fully back. He used to be a pretty good defender.

[jaysblue]

No f***ing rasmus, no one wants that guy here>

 

Defensively, he'd be solid in a corner OF spot, does have some power and could have success if used strictly against RHP.

[burlingtonbandit]

I'd like that. For some reason I always assumed his defense wasn't good. I think because he's kind of old and plays 1B. Never steals bases so I figured he was slow. But he's actually a much more complete player than people give him credit for.

 

Yeah I'm the same away about his defense. His metrics grade out pretty well.

[wamco]

Love Jose but if you are giving up the pick, I want more than one year. 3/51 max for me

[Laika]

I'd like to know more about Saunders medically. Will he regain any speed after his knee injury? Sometimes I feel like it can take a season before one is fully back. He used to be a pretty good defender.

 

No, they had to do a full removal of the meniscus IIRC. His knee doesn't have a physical state that will ever go back to normal.

 

Actually, he is predisposed to even faster decline now. He's basically missing the biological shock absorber in his knee. More prone to pain, cartilage damage, arthritis onset.

[Terminator]

No, they had to do a full removal of the meniscus IIRC. His knee doesn't have a physical state that will ever go back to normal.

 

Actually, he is predisposed to even faster decline now. He's basically missing the biological shock absorber in his knee. More prone to pain, cartilage damage, arthritis onset.

 

That really sucks for him.

 

And I know for a fact that he didn't step on a sprinkler either. He stepped in a hole in the Jays' s***** outfield in Dunedin while he was getting reps in the OF. The FO asked him if he would be willing to go with the sprinkler story to save the embarrassment at how s***** the conditions are and he agreed.

[burlingtonbandit]

That really sucks for him.

 

And I know for a fact that he didn't step on a sprinkler either. He stepped in a hole in the Jays' s***** outfield in Dunedin while he was getting reps in the OF. The FO asked him if he would be willing to go with the sprinkler story to save the embarrassment at how s***** the conditions are and he agreed.

 

Lol basically the s***** ST facility cost him Millions of dollars. Wonder if he could sue them for that.

[Terminator]

Lol basically the s***** ST facility cost him Millions of dollars. Wonder if he could sue them for that.

 

He could have raised hell at the time and I bet the player's union would have went to war on his behalf but it also would have put a sour taste in the mouth of his current and perhaps future employers. Tough situation.