General 2016 Blue Jays discussion thread

[fatcowxlive]

I don't know. I'm not really on the "he should be dumped" train, just the "that contract makes me nervous and it would be nice to replace him with a less risky alternative" train. Just last offseason Brad Miller was acquired for a swingman, Jonathan Villar was picked up off the scrap heap, and Asdrubal Cabrera was signed for 2/18.5. If the team can fine someone they project for at least 1.5 wins for minimal investment, then dumping Tulo and putting the $80M towards something else (JD extension?) makes sense.

 

Say, how about that Yunel Escobar kid?

[Vialotor]

I don't know. I'm not really on the "he should be dumped" train, just the "that contract makes me nervous and it would be nice to replace him with a less risky alternative" train. Just last offseason Brad Miller was acquired for a swingman, Jonathan Villar was picked up off the scrap heap, and Asdrubal Cabrera was signed for 2/18.5. If the team can find someone they project for at least 1.5 wins for minimal investment, then dumping Tulo and putting the $80M towards something else (JD extension?) makes sense.

 

Agree that contract is definitely not worth his production going forward, unlikely at least.

[RealAccountant]

They just extended Justin f***ing Smoak.

 

Smoak is just a transitional piece. Same thing with Happ Estrada Upton Liriano

 

These are just transitional guys. I believe Shapiro has what it takes to build a real solid world series contender for a 5-7 year stretch

 

These guys are not part of that.

[RealAccountant]

The only guys that I think can be part of a true multiple year world series contender that Shapiro builds in a few years are Sanchez Osuna Biagini Stroman Travis hopefully Donaldson maybe Martin Pompey

 

Other than that it will be who ever they bring in

People need to remember that Batista and EE developed here because we had plate appearances for them

 

Unless the Jays go to the world series expect an exodus and a cleaning of the house.

[Brownie19]

I don't know. I'm not really on the "he should be dumped" train, just the "that contract makes me nervous and it would be nice to replace him with a less risky alternative" train. Just last offseason Brad Miller was acquired for a swingman, Jonathan Villar was picked up off the scrap heap, and Asdrubal Cabrera was signed for 2/18.5. If the team can find someone they project for at least 1.5 wins for minimal investment, then dumping Tulo and putting the $80M towards something else (JD extension?) makes sense.

 

Can Brad Miller even play SS anymore?

[BTS]

Can Brad Miller even play SS anymore?

 

I don't know. I have no insight into why the numbers say he went from average-ish to a tire fire since last year.

[RealAccountant]

Baseball central moved to accommodate the Hockey Pucks. Sigh.

[Brownie19]

Baseball central moved to accommodate the Hockey Pucks. Sigh.

 

Not surprised you listen to Baseball Central...

[HERPDERP]

Baseball central moved to accommodate the Hockey Pucks. Sigh.

 

I irrationally hate hockey simply because of how crazy the media has pandered to the hockey crowd, especially in the offseason. I don't mind the sport - it is the most exciting sport out there. But I'm sick of the media and I refuse to encourage it. I'm actually glad Rogers lost a s*** ton on their hockey investments.

[Pendleton]

I irrationally hate hockey simply because of how crazy the media has pandered to the hockey crowd, especially in the offseason. I don't mind the sport - it is the most exciting sport out there. But I'm sick of the media and I refuse to encourage it. I'm actually glad Rogers lost a s*** ton on their hockey investments.

 

Hockey is like 3/4 of my life and I completely agree about the media being too annoying to stand. The over analysis of the sport has gotten out of hand.

[Brownie19]

I'm the same. The media's made me hate the game. I change the dial when the puckheads talk about it on the radio and haven't watched a game of hockey in over 3+ years now. The crazy parents in minor hockey also discourage me from the sport.

 

My 6 year old just showed his first interest in hockey about 3 weeks ago and we signed him up. I'm about to reengage in the sport...which makes me nervous. I will continue to avoid all media coverage and crazy parents (I hate people in general as it is) - but I will need to start watching Leafs games with my son....at least they have some good young talent now

[Vialotor]

I irrationally hate hockey simply because of how crazy the media has pandered to the hockey crowd, especially in the offseason. I don't mind the sport - it is the most exciting sport out there. But I'm sick of the media and I refuse to encourage it. I'm actually glad Rogers lost a s*** ton on their hockey investments.

 

I also hate how the media pedanders to hockey as well and doesn't cover other sports enough, and LOL at it being the most exciting sport, Hockey maybe but the NHL sure as s*** is not, not much better then soccer on ice these days.

[Pendleton]

I also hate how the media pedanders to hockey as well and doesn't cover other sports enough, and LOL at it being the most exciting sport, Hockey maybe but the NHL sure as s*** is not, not much better then soccer on ice these days.

 

Now that's just taking it way too far, the most uneventful hockey game is still way more exciting than that garbage.

[Vialotor]

Now that's just taking it way too far, the most uneventful hockey game is still way more exciting than that garbage.

 

Maybe an exaggeration but the NHL's product is not remotely close to entertaining, game is bogged and watered down.

[Terminator]

Down here in the States hockey is rarely covered but for Barry Melrose being given about 2 minutes a night on Sportscenter, as I'm sure you all know. I like going to an Avs game every so often but don't really know much else about it. I know Roy just quit, Sakic is the GM and Matt Duchene is our best player - that's about it. It's a great game live, really exciting. On TV though I find it to kind of be a bore.

[Brownie19]

I also hate how the media pedanders to hockey as well and doesn't cover other sports enough, and LOL at it being the most exciting sport, Hockey maybe but the NHL sure as s*** is not, not much better then soccer on ice these days.

 

Are you saying that because they've all but eliminated fighting and "big hits"?

[Grant77]

Down here in the States hockey is rarely covered but for Barry Melrose being given about 2 minutes a night on Sportscenter, as I'm sure you all know. I like going to an Avs game every so often but don't really know much else about it. I know Roy just quit, Sakic is the GM and Matt Duchene is our best player - that's about it. It's a great game live, really exciting. On TV though I find it to kind of be a bore.

 

It's easy to get more attached if you have a junior or college team in your town and follow them. I saw Matt Duchene play 10+ times live before he made it too the show so it's cool to follow him. It's exciting to follow guys who played for your team too. We've had Wayne Gretzky, Ron Francis, Adam Foote (longtime Avs player), Joe Thornton, etc. but it's also cool to follow guys like Matt Murray and his unlikely journey to the Stanley cup.

 

That's just a small city of 80,000 and I left out at least 4 hall of famers. You can imagine the list of players that some of the larger cities in Canada can boast.

 

I do agree though that hockey is usually boring on television. I'll take live hockey any day.

[jays4life19]

1. Jose Bautista ® RF

2. Josh Donaldson ® 3B

3. Edwin Encarnacion ® DH

4. Russell Martin ® C

5. Troy Tulowitzki ® SS

6. Michael Saunders (L) LF

7. Kevin Pillar ® CF

8. Justin Smoak (S) 1B

9. Devon Travis ® 2B

 

1. Brett Gardner (L) LF

2. Jacoby Ellsbury (L) CF

3. Gary Sanchez ® C

4. Didi Gregorius (L) SS

5. Starlin Castro ® 2B

6. Brian McCann (L) DH

7. Chase Headley (S) 3B

8. Aaron Judge ® RF

9. Tyler Austin ® 1B

[RealAccountant]

Bautista

Donaldson

Encarnacion

Martin

Tulowitzki

Saunders

Pillar

Smoak

Travis

[BTS]

Does Gibby actually believe that Travis is the worst hitter in that lineup?

[Vialotor]

Are you saying that because they've all but eliminated fighting and "big hits"?

 

lmao...no. In fact that has zero to do with it at all.

[Governator]

Does Gibby actually believe that Travis is the worst hitter in that lineup?

 

No he believes Justin Smoak is the worst hitter in the line up and Travis is the second lead off man. To be honest, if you're not batting him 1-6th I'd probably put him 9th as well but why he's not leading off is because Gibby nnnnggghh

[THANOS]

No he believes Justin Smoak is the worst hitter in the line up and Travis is the second lead off man. To be honest, if you're not batting him 1-6th I'd probably put him 9th as well but why he's not leading off is because Gibby nnnnggghh

 

Thing is, this placement means he also gets the least ABs in the game. Smoak has a chance for more ABs which is just wrong.

[VE2OH]

Does Gibby actually believe that Travis is the worst hitter in that lineup?

 

I think they want him in front of Bautista and he wants to hit lead-off.

So the order is really 9-1-2-3

[Terminator]

I don't mind the #9 hitter being better than the #8 hitter, but the #9 hitter should in no way be better than the #7 hitter.

[Governator]

Thing is, this placement means he also gets the least ABs in the game. Smoak has a chance for more ABs which is just wrong.

 

Probably 95% of the time that's just doesn't happen... and you carry over a faster runner to the top of the order that you benefit from the entire game. Put it this way, if Justin Smoak bats 9th then every single plate appearance is in front of Jose Bautista & Josh Donaldson. I'm sorry but that's a much harder guy to drive in. The benefit of a Travis, Upton, Pillar type guy exceeds the difference of 7th/8th/9th order imo. This is really only the case because of the DH benefit in the AL, in the NL I'd have the pitcher 9th every game and every game Josh Thole plays regardless.

[BTS]

I don't mind the #9 hitter being better than the #8 hitter, but the #9 hitter should in no way be better than the #7 hitter.

 

Yeah, he's really pushing it here. Hitting an atrocious hitter 7th so you can have a '2nd lead off hitter' 9 is cute until Pillar is the last out in a close game.

 

Not that any of this really matters.

[fatcowxlive]

Does Gibby actually believe that Travis is the worst hitter in that lineup?

 

No I think Blair said something along the lines that Gibby wants to have Travis turn the lineup over. I think that's why we also saw Barney hit behind Thole despite Thole being worse, Barney puts the ball in play and can turn the lineup over successfully.

 

Which is still stupid IMO, the best lineup you can roll with is similar to last year's lineup where you have:

 

Travis

Donaldson

Bautista

Encarnacion

Martin

Tulo

Saunders

Smoak/Upton

Pillar

 

Travis can get on and he has decent speed, prototypical leadoff guy. Then Donaldson can continue to get his atbats, and when Bautista's at the plate he's almost guaranteed that he has at least one runner on, and with Encrancion protecting him, it means he'll get lots of strikes and he's disciplined enough to lay off bad pitchers... also can run into homers like we've seen in his limited abs so far

[Orgfiller]

Does Gibby actually believe that Travis is the worst hitter in that lineup?

 

I don't believe so since he has hit Travis leadoff on multiple occasions. The decision probably comes from him not being able to change 1-5 much (when Martin and Tulo are playing) and his perceived view of Travis' skillset at the plate. I believe the second leadoff hitter thing is exactly how Gibby views it.

[o2cui2i]

No I think Blair said something along the lines that Gibby wants to have Travis turn the lineup over. I think that's why we also saw Barney hit behind Thole despite Thole being worse, Barney puts the ball in play and can turn the lineup over successfully.

 

Which is still stupid IMO

 

you see this in some NL games where they hit the pitcher 8th and have a better hitter up 9th

 

there must be some metric that makes managers do this...