Wilner vs Pillar Twitter battle

[Maahfaace]

Egregious statement.

 

not at all, they are comparable offensively, and defensively Goins is inferior, but not by as much as most would like to think. If they both hit exactly the same as Simmons did this past year when he put up 3.2 WAR, I`d argue over a full season at SS Goins would put up close to 2.5 WAR himself.

[Orgfiller]

not at all, they are comparable offensively, and defensively Goins is inferior, but not by as much as most would like to think. If they both hit exactly the same as Simmons did this past year when he put up 3.2 WAR, I`d argue over a full season at SS Goins would put up close to 2.5 WAR himself.

 

They're not really comparable offensively other than they're both below average. Goins is a much worse hitter than Simmons, the latter has quite good contact rates leading to few strikeouts.

 

As far as the defense, the difference is definitely as much as people think, Simmons is a generational defender FFS, it's not even close.

[Maahfaace]

They're not really comparable offensively other than they're both below average. Goins is a much worse hitter than Simmons, the latter has quite good contact rates leading to few strikeouts.

 

As far as the defense, the difference is definitely as much as people think, Simmons is a generational defender FFS, it's not even close.

 

Much worse doesnt apply to different type of hitter, they are both shiat hitters that will hover around 70-85 wRC+ for their careers. While Simmons is a generational talent at SS, it doesnt translate into him being exponentially valuable to Goins defensively, its marginal when discussing elite vs all-world and doesnt have as great an impact on the outcome of games as comparing someone who is below average to above average.

[Boxcar]

Egregious statement.

 

lol holy s***

[Maahfaace]

lol holy s***

 

Heres a fun one, who would you rather have starting at SS given a limited payroll

 

Simmons at 13-15 million or Ryan Goins at 2-3 million.

 

Think about it.....

[nextyear]

I appreciate the logic in Maahfaace's posts regarding Ryan Goins. I am very happy that the Blue Jays have Tulowitzki at SS (and Ryan Goins backing him up at only $0.5 million) instead of Andrelton Simmons.

 

Regarding Kevin Pillar, there isn't really a war of words going on between Wilner and Pillar. Kevin Pillar had three tweets regarding Wilner, and there is nothing in Kevin Pillar's tweets for people to hate Kevin Pillar for.

 

 

 

 

 

[GD]

Heres a fun one, who would you rather have starting at SS given a limited payroll

 

Simmons at 13-15 million or Ryan Goins at 2-3 million.

 

Think about it.....

 

Simmons

[Krylian]

They're not really comparable offensively other than they're both below average. Goins is a much worse hitter than Simmons, the latter has quite good contact rates leading to few strikeouts.

 

As far as the defense, the difference is definitely as much as people think, Simmons is a generational defender FFS, it's not even close.

 

Is it like Kiermaier vs. Pillar on defence ( when comparing Simmons to Goins)... Cause I'm ok with that.

[GD]

Is it like Kiermaier vs. Pillar on defence ( when comparing Simmons to Goins)... Cause I'm ok with that.

 

No. It's not. Are people forgetting that Goins' defense at 2B is not representative of his defense at SS?

[Krylian]

No. It's not. Are people forgetting that Goins' defense at 2B is not representative of his defense at SS?

 

Well... I think we've all seen great flashes at short. Granted it's a SSS, but he looked pretty damn good from what we saw. What the actual fancy stats say about him at short, I don't know.

[flafson]

Simmons

 

With limited payroll scenario, the extra money you pay Simmons means you can't have someone like Bautista on the team.

 

Goins + Bautista >> Simmons + Carrera

[GD]

With limited payroll scenario, the extra money you pay Simmons means you can't have someone like Bautista on the team.

 

Goins + Bautista >> Simmons + Carrera

 

Simmons isn't that far off from Bautista

[WTFBuck]

Only 8 outfielders in the AL had more hits than pillar. put him at leadoff if you trade revere.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Of the 49 American League outfielders with atleast 350 PA's only 33 had a better OBP than Pillar.

[Orgfiller]

Of the 49 American League outfielders with atleast 350 PA's only 33 had a better OBP than Pillar.

 

1) Arbitrary cutoff point for PA

2) Only 33? That's ~67% of the group that are better than him.

3) Who said that outfielders are the ones who had to be leading off? I know you might not necessarily be suggesting that, but in this discussion I don't see the relevance of only mentioning outfielders.

 

Out of Blue Jays with at least 100 plate appearances (another arbitrary cutoff point), Pillar was 13th out of 16, and it should be noted that he had the lowest walk rate on the team. As far as pure hitting ability, he was 10th in wRC+, with Tulowitzki and Reyes right below him (guys that have been above-average hitters throughout their careers).

 

Edit: I didn't see the post above yours, which means I might have missed some serious sarcasm on your part.

[reedjohnsonfan]

No. It's not. Are people forgetting that Goins' defense at 2B is not representative of his defense at SS?

 

That's what makes these last two pages hard to read.

[Orgfiller]

That's what makes these last two pages hard to read.

 

And also the fact that Simmons is substantially better than Goins at defense, shortstop or otherwise.

[GeorgiaPeach]

1) Arbitrary cutoff point for PA

 

When looking at a particular group of players - AL OF'ers. I'll run the PA's to where I get 45 OF'ers or close to the number of AL OF'ers PA's who would apply for all the teams 3 OF x 15 teams. In this case there was 49 OF'ers.

 

2) Only 33? That's ~67% of the group that are better than him.

 

I was being a dink to the previous poster who said Pillar was 8th in Hits for AL OF'ers.

 

3) Who said that outfielders are the ones who had to be leading off? I know you might not necessarily be suggesting that, but in this discussion I don't see the relevance of only mentioning outfielders.

 

I could've sworn the guy who posted before me mentioned Outfielders. And really I don't care about any of this, but Pillar absolutely shouldn't be leading off.

 

It's humourous Pillar believes he's one of the Jays best hitters. Because of the starting 9 when healthy he might be 8th or 9th best.

 

Edit: I didn't see the post above yours, which means I might have missed some serious sarcasm on your part.

 

[burlingtonbandit]

If everyone is healthy Pillar should be hitting 9th. Crazy to think the Jays could actually have a lineup where all 9 hitters are above average.

[EMK19]

I sometimes wish both Cito and Devon White were around these days just so that I can see Cito drive Wilner crazy by having White lead off every day. lol.

 

Though to be fair that would probably drive everyone nuts these days, not just Wilner.

[Spanky99]

I sometimes wish both Cito and Devon White were around these days just so that I can see Cito drive Wilner crazy by having White lead off every day. lol.

 

Though to be fair that would probably drive everyone nuts these days, not just Wilner.

 

It would've, but that was the late 80's and early 90's. Oranges to Apples, in concern to todays knowledge.

[Maahfaace]

Simmons isn't that far off from Bautista

 

Chamon now. This can only apply when Bats is playing with one arm like he did this past season.

[Maahfaace]

It would've, but that was the late 80's and early 90's. Oranges to Apples, in concern to todays knowledge.

 

Think wilner would of made it on the radio back in the glory days?

[G-Snarls]

I sometimes wish both Cito and Devon White were around these days just so that I can see Cito drive Wilner crazy by having White lead off every day. lol.

 

Though to be fair that would probably drive everyone nuts these days, not just Wilner.

 

I don't remember what Cito did with White when we got Rickey Henderson. Did he hit him 9th after that?

[TheHurl]

I don't remember what Cito did with White when we got Rickey Henderson. Did he hit him 9th after that?

 

Henderson, White, Alomar, Carter, Olerud, Molitor, Fernandez, Sprague, Borders

[nextyear]

His 2nd half numbers were down from his first half numbers. And hopefully were not under the illusion he's another Bautista or Donaldson and break out at 27.

 

The Blue Jays are very fortunate to have Kevin Pillar.

 

Unfortunately this is likely the best you'll see of him. I don't see the bat being much better and the defense can't possibly continue as it has.

 

I decided to fact-check this claim.

 

In 2015 Kevin Pillar had a total of 628 regular season plate appearances and 45 post-season appearances for a total of 673 plate appearances.

 

1) For the baseball term of first half (before the All Star break) he had wRC+ of 95 for the first "half" (actually 355 plate appearances which isn't really a half), and wRC+ of 95 for the second half including the playoffs (again not really a half of a season).

 

2) For the mathematical half of 673 plate appearances you don't get an even half so instead I did April 6 through July 8, 2015 which gives 339 plate appearances - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=12434&position=OF&type=&gds=2015-04-06&gde=2015-07-08&season= and this gives the first half number of wRC+ 94 (this gives the best number in your favour)

 

For the mathematical second half including the playoffs, I used the period of July 9 to October 4th (289 plate appearances) = wRC+ 92 - http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=12434&position=OF&type=&gds=2015-07-09&gde=2015-10-04&season=, and 45 playoff plate appearance with wRC+ 120 - http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=12434&position=OF for a total of 334 plate appearances (the best in favour of your argument):

(289/334 x 92) + (45/334 x 120) = wRC+ 96 (rounded up from 95.77)

 

So at best you can say the two halves were equal if you use the baseball term of "first half". The only way that what you stated is true is if you ignore his playoff numbers, but when it comes to predicting his future potential there is no reason for doing that.

[G-Snarls]

Henderson, White, Alomar, Carter, Olerud, Molitor, Fernandez, Sprague, Borders

 

White in the 2 spot seems pretty dumn

 

I think Gibby would have been smarter.

 

That said the 93 lineup esp after adding Rickey was so good it probably didn't matter that much.

[Boxcar]

Henderson, White, Alomar, Carter, Olerud, Molitor, Fernandez, Sprague, Borders

 

Paul Molitor 6th, behind f***ing Joe Carter. Lol.

 

I'm really glad I didn't understand baseball in 92/93.

[Boxcar]

White in the 2 spot seems pretty dumn

 

I think Gibby would have been smarter.

 

That said the 93 lineup esp after adding Rickey was so good it probably didn't matter that much.

 

3 slam dunk hall of Famers and a guy that was pretty close. Pretty hard to f*** that up but Cito sure tried.

[G-Snarls]

Paul Molitor 6th, behind f***ing Joe Carter. Lol.

 

I'm really glad I didn't understand baseball in 92/93.

 

Exactly how I feel. LOL

 

White should have been hitting 9th

 

Henderson

Alomar

Molitor

 

Clearly should have been the 1-2-3