Josh Donaldson Wins Hank Aaron Award

[Governator]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=tor&partnerId=ed-9844281-846023383

 

Donaldson and Harper. Prelude to MVP at this point?

 

Congrats JD

[Boxcar]

This seems to be an objectively incorrect decision.

[BTS]

This seems to be an objectively incorrect decision.

 

Yup. Trout should have won this in a landslide.

[Boxcar]

Didn't realize there was also a narrative attached to "best offensive player." Seems pretty straightforward and the writers still f***ed it up. Dude keeps getting unjustly robbed.

[Grant77]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=tor&partnerId=ed-9844281-846023383

 

Donaldson and Harper. Prelude to MVP at this point?

 

Congrats JD

 

Trout was slightly better, but good for JD. If the voters have the same mindset for the MVP vote, he should win in a landslide being the better fielder and baserunner. I guess it makes up for how little recognition he got in past years.

[Spanky99]

Yeah, nice for JD, but...

[Stangstag]

To me, this means Donaldson wins MVP for sure. Trout had the edge on offense, while Donaldson had the edge on defense. If he's already won the HA award.... he must be getting the MVP too.

 

Dumn voters are dum.

[crmr]

Good choice by the voters not succumbing to statistical noise. JD has more doubles, same amount of HR's, and struck out less leading to more opportunities to help his team score. Doesn't even count the production type numbers, which he was insane in (yes I know, lineup is better). Pretty much park factor is all that saves Trout in the stuff you guys are looking at (wrc+), but most of JD's home runs were no doubters.

 

I see these two are virtually a tie, so a better story should give it to JD

[Governator]

Good choice by the voters not succumbing to statistical noise. JD has more doubles, same amount of HR's, and struck out less leading to more opportunities to help his team score. Doesn't even count the production type numbers, which he was insane in (yes I know, lineup is better). Pretty much park factor is all that saves Trout in the stuff you guys are looking at (wrc+), but most of JD's home runs were no doubters.

 

I see these two are virtually a tie, so a better story should give it to JD

 

Uhmm.. So let's look at all the numbers JD did well in but ignore wRC+ for what reason? That's probably the most important figure when evaluating offensive production and that one was nearly 20pts higher for a reason...

[crmr]

Uhmm.. So let's look at all the numbers JD did well in but ignore wRC+ for what reason? That's probably the most important figure when evaluating offensive production...

 

Who ignored wrc+? The difference is driven by park factor, which is noisy.

[Boxcar]

Good choice by the voters not succumbing to statistical noise. JD has more doubles, same amount of HR's, and struck out less leading to more opportunities to help his team score. Doesn't even count the production type numbers, which he was insane in (yes I know, lineup is better). Pretty much park factor is all that saves Trout in the stuff you guys are looking at (wrc+), but most of JD's home runs were no doubters.

 

I see these two are virtually a tie, so a better story should give it to JD

 

Wonder what you'd be saying if you were an Angels fan.

[Boxcar]

Who ignored wrc+? The difference is driven by park factor, which is noisy.

 

No, its not lol.

[Governator]

Who ignored wrc+? The difference is driven by park factor, which is noisy.

 

When evaluating the best offensive player in the league you don't think the park matters? You don't think Trout would have a better offensive year than JD playing at Rogers Centre and hitter friendly AL East parks?

[BTS]

Who ignored wrc+? The difference is driven by park factor, which is noisy.

 

Trout had a wOBA 17 points higher than Donaldson despite playing in a much worse park for hitters. There was clear separation between the two this year, with Trout ahead.

[Boxcar]

When evaluating the best offensive player in the league you don't think the park matters? You don't think Trout would have a better offensive year than JD playing at Rogers Centre and hitter friendly AL East parks?

 

The best part about this is that we LITERALLY just saw a prime example of this with Donaldson.

[crmr]

When evaluating the best offensive player in the league you don't think the park matters? You don't think Trout would have a better offensive year than JD playing at Rogers Centre and hitter friendly AL East parks?

 

I'm saying that your particular question is difficult to answer, and that it's close enough (Donaldson vs Trout) to not be able to say with any certainty at all, and so the traditional stats and story are good enough of a reason to put JD above Trout

[Boxcar]

I'm actually pretty proud there's only one blue jay homer in this thread. This is a good board.

[crmr]

I'm actually pretty proud there's only one blue jay homer in this thread. This is a good board.

 

Agreed, except the bad part of the board also comes out (the reliance on one infallible number to evaluate)

[Governator]

Agreed, except the bad part of the board also comes out (the reliance on one infallible number to evaluate)

 

So instead we should just add up his doubles and homeruns like its 1950 and call it a day? lol Trout lead the league in slugging and OPS if you want more basic stats that incorporates your line of thought.

[burlingtonbandit]

It'd be cool to see how good Trout's numbers would be if he played for the Blue Jays and these AL East parks.

[Laika]

It'd be cool to see how good Trout's numbers would be if he played for the Blue Jays and these AL East parks.

 

RC adds 10% to HR by RHB

Angel Stadium decreases 7% of HR by RHB

 

For doubles, basically the same but 1/2 the percentages.

 

Trout gains ~3 HR and Donaldson loses ~4 HR

Donaldson loses ~2 doubles. Trout gains 1 double.

 

Trout would obviously run away with the MVP, with that 44 to 37 HR gap. Also you could almost flip their RBI numbers, obviously (Donaldson was slightly better in RE24 and WPA/LI s*** - not sure how exactly that would affect RBI counts but it would a bit).

[TheHurl]

To me, this means Donaldson wins MVP for sure. Trout had the edge on offense, while Donaldson had the edge on defense. If he's already won the HA award.... he must be getting the MVP too.

 

Dumn voters are dum.

 

Different dumn voters though.

 

2015 HANK AARON AWARD

Your (meaning fan votes) votes for the 2015 Hank Aaron Award, given to the top offensive player in each League, will be counted alongside those of a special panel of Hall of Famers. The panel, led by Hank Aaron, includes some of the greatest offensive players of all-time: Hall of Famers Roberto Alomar, Johnny Bench, Craig Biggio, Eddie Murray, Frank Thomas and Robin Yount, all personally chosen by Aaron to help select the winners. Voting ends at 11:59 p.m. ET on Sunday, Oct. 11. The Awards will be presented during the World Series.

[burlingtonbandit]

RC adds 10% to HR by RHB

Angel Stadium decreases 7% of HR by RHB

 

For doubles, basically the same but 1/2 the percentages.

 

Trout gains ~3 HR and Donaldson loses ~4 HR

Donaldson loses ~2 doubles. Trout gains 1 double.

 

Trout would obviously run away with the MVP, with that 44 to 37 HR gap. Also you could almost flip their RBI numbers, obviously (Donaldson was slightly better in RE24 and WPA/LI s*** - not sure how exactly that would affect RBI counts but it would a bit).

 

Also have to think about all the games played at Fenway, Camden vs O.CO, Safeco etc...

 

I mean JD's numbers got way better moving divisions and his plate discipline and and type of contact didn't really change.

[TheHurl]

Agreed, except the bad part of the board also comes out (the reliance on one infallible number to evaluate)

 

okay then look at traditional stats for the two...on the road. It's not even close.

 

Slash line

 

Trout - .316/.400/.623

JD - .263/.343/.487

 

Counting stats 2B/HR/RBI

 

Trout - 20/21/53

JD - 16/17/54

 

I'm not looking to take away from JD's season, I'm good with him being MVP, but much of the numbers are highly inflated by the RC. But if this was an award for the best offensive player...Trout wins hands down.

[flafson]

Pretty sure they measure this award by number of hits + HR's + RBI's which JD wins with ease.

[Spanky99]

N o Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit.

[FrozenRopes]

Co-award winners in my mind.

[FrozenRopes]

Different dumn voters though.

 

2015 HANK AARON AWARD

Your (meaning fan votes) votes for the 2015 Hank Aaron Award, given to the top offensive player in each League, will be counted alongside those of a special panel of Hall of Famers. The panel, led by Hank Aaron, includes some of the greatest offensive players of all-time: Hall of Famers Roberto Alomar, Johnny Bench, Craig Biggio, Eddie Murray, Frank Thomas and Robin Yount, all personally chosen by Aaron to help select the winners. Voting ends at 11:59 p.m. ET on Sunday, Oct. 11. The Awards will be presented during the World Series.

 

How can any of us argue with the cumulative selection of those hand picked players. Good for JD.

[Captain Adama]

How can any of us argue with the cumulative selection of those hand picked players. Good for JD.

 

Great players for sure. Not so great when it comes to properly evaluating players. Pretty simple really.

[blurnandez]

This award is akin to a film winning an Oscar. It's never the "best" film that wins, just what's popular / promoted well, so the award doesn't mean much. This too is just a flashy / trite award that probably doesn't deserve much analysis.