Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[vdubmvp]

Back and excited for ST.

 

You were already at least halfway back during this season, no?

[Swervin81]

This. It's more disappointing than anything given the utter dominance he could have with that moving 97 2-seamer as long as he had command of it, and a couple other decent pitches to compliment the curve.

 

The thing is... well, it's pretty much all in his command. t's not just not consistently throwing strikes, it's being unable to paint the corners and especially being unable to make a really good chase pitch just off the plate. He has the raw stuff to be a K machine, but his command basically destroys that.

 

He needs to continue developing that cutter vs LHP and at least fix his command to reasonable levels, even if it means throwing 95, 96 as opposed to 97, 98, 99.

[Grant77]

His lack of control and inability to get strikeouts at times are really not fun to watch.

 

What does that have to do with building a good team? Sanchez' skillset could be very useful to this team for a long time. As I mentioned earlier, Shapiro traded for and kept Jake Westbrook (5 K/9, 3 BB/9, 60 GB%) for 10 years as well as developing Fausto Carmona, so he has demonstrated that he recognizes different types of talent. The same can't be said for most people on this forum.

[thatoneguy]

What does that have to do with building a good team? Sanchez' skillset could be very useful to this team for a long time. As I mentioned earlier, Shapiro traded for and kept Jake Westbrook (5 K/9, 3 BB/9, 60 GB%) for 10 years as well as developing Fausto Carmona, so he has demonstrated that he recognizes different types of talent. The same can't be said for most people on this forum.

 

What? I'm also saying he lacks command. I don't give a f*** if you're a strikeout pitcher throwing 100 mph or a GB guy throwing 86, if you have problems with your control, you're going to have issues.

[Spanky99]

Fair enough.

 

And the masses would be in an uproar if we traded Bautista or Edwin for Trout and the Angels at Trout's entire contract.

 

There's too many emotional ties fans make with players or teams.

 

This isn't true, c'mon man.

 

Also, I don't see either of them waiving their rights for trade unless it's to a contender. This stuff remains to be seen regardless, if the Jays get some SP help, I can't see them not making one last push for a run for the Post Season, at worst the Jays can let them walk, and pick up a couple comp picks.

[Spanky99]

Win a WS with them this year is such a definitive statement.

 

At minimum we should be QO'ing them both and letting them walk when they both decline. There's zero reason to run Jose or Edwin up close to 40 and paying them 20+m a year.

 

This I can agree with.

[Spanky99]

You were already at least halfway back during this season, no?

 

Always, lol.

[Spanky99]

So many theorist's in here?!

[Slugger]

This is an interesting article;

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

[Hipfan]

This is an interesting article;

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

 

Ya, just read that before coming on here...you wonder if it's a PR move from Rogers to cover their butts.

 

This whole situation is just weird. I think Rogers are pretty terrible owners that make some really bad decisions - from their blunders trying to replace Beeston, to their refusal to up the payroll by an extra 10 million or so that would have made the 2014 team an actual contender - but they are not the only reason to blame for the mediocrity that has surrounded the team for so many years. I'm glad Beeston is gone and I think Shapiro will turn out to be a good hire. As long as Rogers stays out of their own way.

 

But their seems to be something fishy with AA in all of this. I can't put my finger on it, but it all seems so strange. Oh well, hopefully Shapiro hires a good GM who can fix the starting pitching issues, while restocking the farm system (although it's not stripped to the bone, and there are still some very good prospects in it). AA did a lot of good things, and some bad ones, like most GMs, but it's not the end of the world that he's gone.

[McDude]

His lack of control and inability to get strikeouts at times are really not fun to watch.

 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think a guy like Mickey callaway could turn Sanchez into a stud. I wouldn't be surprised to see him blossom with a few mechanical changes. But with the way he is right now, he's a good not great RP

[Slugger]

Ya, just read that before coming on here...you wonder if it's a PR move from Rogers to cover their butts.

 

This whole situation is just weird. I think Rogers are pretty terrible owners that make some really bad decisions - from their blunders trying to replace Beeston, to their refusal to up the payroll by an extra 10 million or so that would have made the 2014 team an actual contender - but they are not the only reason to blame for the mediocrity that has surrounded the team for so many years. I'm glad Beeston is gone and I think Shapiro will turn out to be a good hire. As long as Rogers stays out of their own way.

 

But their seems to be something fishy with AA in all of this. I can't put my finger on it, but it all seems so strange. Oh well, hopefully Shapiro hires a good GM who can fix the starting pitching issues, while restocking the farm system (although it's not stripped to the bone, and there are still some very good prospects in it). AA did a lot of good things, and some bad ones, like most GMs, but it's not the end of the world that he's gone.

 

They're actually not, but continue...

[burlingtonbandit]

This is an interesting article;

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

 

lol Rogers trying to do some PR damage control. I think its pretty clear Shapiro is going to to be running things, surprised if Ed Rogers actually doesn't think that.

[burlingtonbandit]

They're actually not, but continue...

 

You don't think the way they handled these situations is very poor? Thats a terrible way of handling business with your top executives.

 

Most people in the industry scolded Rogers.

[Slugger]

You don't think the way they handled these situations is very poor? Thats a terrible way of handling business with your top executives.

 

Most people in the industry scolded Rogers.

 

No, they handled the Beestan situation poorly. But, from every report from various sources both involved and not involved cite that Rogers did their best to keep Alex. Yes, for the casual fans out there the only way they could've done that was by ripping up Shapiro's contract, which in turn would make them actually terrible and no respected executive would work for them again.

 

I don't know what else Rogers could've done. This is a dead horse, really.

[ElNik2013]

Overreactions going against AA and Shapiro. Nothing wrong with AA moving on and nothing wrong with Shapiro changing the org's view from trying to make the playoffs at all cost to a longer term approach.

 

I think AA was trying to fulfill the previous team president's goal/promise of making the playoffs during his tenure plus you could understand his having some loyalty to the guy that gave him his chance as well as getting the message last off season when Rogers pursued Kenny Williams and offered Hoffman + for Dan Duquette both of whom would run the baseball operations.

 

Rogers did get lucky though that Reinsdorf was friends with Beeston and wouldn't let Kenny Williams go and that Angelos is a maniac.

 

Furthermore, Rogers got even luckier that AA made the moves he did and left the team as favourites going into next season with lots of revenue and interest.

 

AA should be able to find a job elsewhere after this past season so this recent success probably played a role as well.

[burlingtonbandit]

No, they handled the Beestan situation poorly. But, from every report from various sources both involved and not involved cite that Rogers did their best to keep Alex. Yes, for the casual fans out there the only way they could've done that was by ripping up Shapiro's contract, which in turn would make them actually terrible and no respected executive would work for them again.

 

I don't know what else Rogers could've done. This is a dead horse, really.

 

I don't really fault them for the AA thing. If you want you could say the initial 2 year contract offer was pretty poor but my guess is it was like the 1 year option. The entire DD and KW last year was awful though and the Ervin Santata thing in ST was just embarrassing. Not to mention the 2014 trade deadline. I think for those reasons we can say Rogers is a terrible owner.

 

Sure they have a "top 10 payroll" but their revenue is also top 5 in the league so you can argue payroll should be even higher. Personally the payroll doesn't matter to me if its 140 or 145 but rather if it restricts the Jays from going out and adding a player, which has happened on multiple occasions it seems.

[burlingtonbandit]

Overreactions going against AA and Shapiro. Nothing wrong with AA moving on and nothing wrong with Shapiro changing the org's view from trying to make the playoffs at all cost to a longer term approach.

 

I think AA was trying to fulfill the previous team president's goal/promise of making the playoffs during his tenure plus you could understand his having some loyalty to the guy that gave him his chance as well as getting the message last off season when Rogers pursued Kenny Williams and offered Hoffman + for Dan Duquette both of whom would run the baseball operations.

 

Rogers did get lucky though that Reinsdorf was friends with Beeston and wouldn't let Kenny Williams go and that Angelos is a maniac.

 

Furthermore, Rogers got even luckier that AA made the moves he did and left the team as favourites going into next season with lots of revenue and interest.

 

AA should be able to find a job elsewhere after this past season so this recent success probably played a role as well.

 

This is what I don't get. People give credit to Rogers for hiring Shapiro when their first 2 choices (Dan Duquette and Kenny Williams) would of left the franchise in a mess for years. They just got really lucky. Hopefully Shapiro does an excellent job and the Jays will be set up for a while.

[ElNik2013]

No, they handled the Beestan situation poorly. But, from every report from various sources both involved and not involved cite that Rogers did their best to keep Alex. Yes, for the casual fans out there the only way they could've done that was by ripping up Shapiro's contract, which in turn would make them actually terrible and no respected executive would work for them again.

 

I don't know what else Rogers could've done. This is a dead horse, really.

 

 

 

I haven't bashed Rogers for AA leaving, but I don't think the bolded part is true. As I said at the time, pursuing Kenny Williams and Dan Duquete, both of whom were baseball operations guys, at the very least indicated they weren't very happy with their current baseball ops guys or at worst, that they wanted their baseball ops guys out. At least, I would view it this way were I the GM.

 

I see nothing wrong with AA wanting to move on after last off season's shenanigans and probably not being the in-coming team president's first choice as GM.

 

At the same time, I see nothing wrong with a new team president reviewing everything about the organization. Shake hands, move on and forward, for both parties.

 

I do think Rogers does look kind of dumb and lucky in all of this, beginning with their pursuit of Kenny Williams last off season. It's also somewhat reckless to allow a team president and GM tandem to make the moves they made knowing full well that they were in the hunt for a new team president to change the team's direction.

 

At the end of the day, AA left team in good shape both on field and business wise so Shapiro has a lot to work with.

Edited October 31, 2015 by ElNik2013

[BigCecil]

Win a WS with them this year is such a definitive statement.

 

At minimum we should be QO'ing them both and letting them walk when they both decline. There's zero reason to run Jose or Edwin up close to 40 and paying them 20+m a year.

 

This I can agree with.

 

Me too. I don't often agree with GP, but when I do it usually involves me saying goodbye to players I really like a lot. lol.

[BigCecil]

I think Pillar's bat has a little more refinement left in it and his defence won't be as flashy or good.

 

I think Pillar is worth more to us than he would be in trade.

 

Fair assessment. Hard to replicate this season on D for Pillar. Also don't know how he stays healthy playing that aggressively. You are probably right that he is worth more to us than anyone else.

[ElNik2013]

So they made the playoffs in the 3rd year of the 3 year (broken) window.

[saskjayfan]

So they made the playoffs in the 3rd year of the 3 year (broken) window.

 

i see...so they have no shot at the playoffs next year?

[Olerud363]

i see...so they have no shot at the playoffs next year?

 

Donaldson, Bautista, Tulo, EE, Martin, Pillar and Travis are projected for about 25 WAR next year.

 

That seems pretty good to me. With the risk distributed among 7 players. Add in Stroman and they are almost at 30... Add in a few more pieces and you could have a team with 40+ projected WAR. How does translate in terms of projected wins??

[ElNik2013]

i see...so they have no shot at the playoffs next year?

 

 

Was just saying that they ended up making the playoffs during the infamous (to many) 3-year window that began in 2013. As it stands, many were completely wrong and it didn't end up being the train wreck many thought.

 

I've already stated above that AA left the team in good shape both on and off field.

 

I still think the whole go-for-it approach of the last 3 years was in large part an attempt to send Beeston into retirement with a playoff appearance.

[flafson]

Any chance AA backtracks and decides to take the contract extension? Has something like that ever happened?

[dineke]

Any chance AA backtracks and decides to take the contract extension? Has something like that ever happened?

 

Why should rogers even want him back at this point?

[EMK19]

Any chance AA backtracks and decides to take the contract extension? Has something like that ever happened?

 

Theo Epstein?

 

But totally different set of circumstances, etc.

[BigCecil]

Any chance AA backtracks and decides to take the contract extension? Has something like that ever happened?

 

There would be a better chance Carlos Correa is our SS next season.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Rogers propaganda Machine working overtime on this one, Smoke and Mirrors!!! Optic's look bad on this right now... the Truth is out there!!!