What is needed next year so that the Jays keep winning?

[BTS]

Not bad, but there's 0 chance Donaldson jumps to 20 million from 4.3 this year. He'll get paid, but a jump like that in arbitration is unheard of.

 

That's for 2017. He's projected to go to 12 this year.

[Boxcar]

Sorry but this offense hasnt looked all that elite this postseason. It's becoming pretty clear the gameplan going around is pitch the Jays to the outside and let them beat themselves. Sure you'll get a night where it goes all right and you put up a 10 run game (ex Cueto) but then you'll also get games where guys like Young or Volquez or Gallardo totally shut you down. It almost reminds me of a fastbreak NBA team where they kill it offensively in the regular season with a certain style but once the playoffs start and the game becomes halfcourt, said team struggles to generate offense.

 

Whats the last champion team to not even have 1 above average LH'ed bat.

 

Yep thats right. This roster that involves this AMAZING offense doesnt have 1 single above average LH bat.

 

Starting pitching is abviously going to be a more obvious and talked about need but getting a good LH'ed bat to balance out our top 6-7 is important.

 

This is such an incredibly silly post. Buy into the narrative more, bro.

[havok24]

This is such an incredibly silly post. Buy into the narrative more, bro.

 

It's incredibly irritating.

[reedjohnsonfan]

This is such an incredibly silly post. Buy into the narrative more, bro.

 

He has a point. The offense is awesome but a left handed bat would have been ideal. They should have traded for Carlos Gonzalez when his value was a bit lower earlier in the season.

[John_Havok]

That's for 2017. He's projected to go to 12 this year.

 

My bad, missed that part.

[BTS]

He has a point. The offense is awesome but a left handed bat would have been ideal. They should have traded for Carlos Gonzalez when his value was a bit lower earlier in the season.

 

They didn't even have enough cash to afford two months of Danny Valencia...

[FrozenRopes]

We need to revamp our pitching. We need 3 and maybe 4 starters. We need, 3 maybe 4 bull pen arms.

 

Our offense is fine. Our defense is fine. Shore up the pitching and make a better run.

[Boxcar]

He has a point. The offense is awesome but a left handed bat would have been ideal. They should have traded for Carlos Gonzalez when his value was a bit lower earlier in the season.

 

Please explain to me how a post filled with Joe Buck-esque narrative ******** has any sort of point aside from capitalizing on tiny, recent samples and clumsily using them to make terrible arguments?

 

The offense isn't just awesome, it's nearly historically good. They mash righties and lefties. I could not give a single s*** about the lack of another LH bat in the lineup.

[Shogun89]

Sorry to say but we may need to choose between Bautista and Encarnacion. Both are mid 30's and can't field very well. They can both extend their careers at DH.

[Terminator]

Sorry to say but we may need to choose between Bautista and Encarnacion. Both are mid 30's and can't field very well. They can both extend their careers at DH.

 

We can see what happens at the end of this year. I think it'd be a good time to get Bautista some work at 1B to see if he's serviceable there.

[glory]

Given the Tulo acquisition, it wouldn't surprise me if AA targets Votto. $20M a year for everyone!

[CJ-Freeway]

Saunders will make everyone forget this next year. Unless he trips on a chocolate bar in the clubhouse...

 

I wouldn't rely on Saunders to be a good LH hitter. He'll be decent.

[thatoneguy]

I think it's incredibly important for the team not to become the Phillies of the north, with more than their share of aging declining players on brutal contracts.

 

And with Martin, Tulo already locked up, unless both Edwin and Jose take below market deals, thats exactly where they are headed.

 

This is my worst fear, although I think AA and Shapiro (particularly the latter with some of his more modern evaluation of talent/etc.) should be able to do things to help us avoid such a situation.

Edited October 21, 2015 by thatoneguy

[L54]

Sorry to say but we may need to choose between Bautista and Encarnacion. Both are mid 30's and can't field very well. They can both extend their careers at DH.

 

Why are there so many posters who think Bautista can't transition from RF to 1B?

[reedjohnsonfan]

Please explain to me how a post filled with Joe Buck-esque narrative ******** has any sort of point aside from capitalizing on tiny, recent samples and clumsily using them to make terrible arguments?

 

The offense isn't just awesome, it's nearly historically good. They mash righties and lefties. I could not give a single s*** about the lack of another LH bat in the lineup.

 

Chill out. I said a left handed power hitter would have been ideal and they should have traded for Gonzalez. Relax

[Grant77]

I think it's incredibly important for the team not to become the Phillies of the north, with more than their share of aging declining players on brutal contracts.

 

And with Martin, Tulo already locked up, unless both Edwin and Jose take below market deals, thats exactly where they are headed.

 

I don't buy it. That comparison is completely bogus.

 

The Phillies traded away all of their young talent and were left with a shell of aging veterans and no farm system. None of their top 10 position players were under the age of 28 and the young one was John Mayberry Jr. On the pitching side, Vance Worley was basically the only cheap young talent on the entire roster. They were paying a combined 32 million to Placido Polanco, Pig f***er McGee, Joe Blanton, and Ty Wigginton and had a total payroll of 172 million.

 

We, on the other hand, have several young position players to complement the veterans and a relative wealth of talented young pitching. We also have a farm system in the top half of the league and a front office with a superb drafting track record.

 

All of this isn't to say that we shouldn't be careful, but ignoring the opportunity we have in the next couple of years with the current core would be pretty damned stupid. As they age and their contracts expire, we'll just be getting into the real salaries for our current youngsters and I'm very confident that we'll have a top 5 farm system, provided they aren't traded away.

[jaysblue]

I don't buy it. That comparison is completely bogus.

 

The Phillies traded away all of their young talent and were left with a shell of aging veterans and no farm system. None of their top 10 position players were under the age of 28 and the young one was John Mayberry Jr. On the pitching side, Vance Worley was basically the only cheap young talent on the entire roster. They were paying a combined 32 million to Placido Polanco, Pig f***er McGee, Joe Blanton, and Ty Wigginton and had a total payroll of 172 million.

 

We, on the other hand, have several young position players to complement the veterans and a relative wealth of talented young pitching. We also have a farm system in the top half of the league and a front office with a superb drafting track record.

 

All of this isn't to say that we shouldn't be careful, but ignoring the opportunity we have in the next couple of years with the current core would be pretty damned stupid. As they age and their contracts expire, we'll just be getting into the real salaries for our current youngsters and I'm very confident that we'll have a top 5 farm system, provided they aren't traded away.

 

Agreed. We saw AA take that chance this season at the trade deadline. If the Jays decide to keep both EE and Bautista next season, then hopefully more is added to the roster in order to get back to the postseason again in 2016. This is a fantastic core and with players locked up like Donaldson, Martin, Tulo, Pillar in their prime, young arms like Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna taking that next step, and with Bautista and EE making far below market value, you need to take advantage since likely a better window will never present itself. Also, consider the Yankees and Red Sox not being the powerhouses like they once were in the late 90s/early 2000's, and with Tampa Bay keeping it cheap, the AL East is available for the taking.

[TheHurl]

If Osuna moves to a starter...what's his max innings? Is he even a post season starter if he has limits? personally I'd just keep getting the win and half out of him as closer.

[Harvey_Specter]

Don't they both have 10-5 status?? Why not just go with them for another year...

 

They'll definitely keep them for 2016 regardless and then if they're out of the hunt at the trade deadline they will deal them for a good return.

 

Either of them would accept a trade to a playoff team going into their FA season.

 

I think we'll lose them both to Free Agency anyway. And we probably should for what they'd want we'd be better off going after a really good pitcher(s) that is younger.

 

Even without them in 2017, we still have a good offensive core with Tulo, JD, Martin and to a lesser extent Revere, Travis.

 

We need to add some serious SP and RP before 2016 and can make another run with EE and JBau. There is a good core there for 2017+ and plenty of time to add pieces before then. I'm not worried about losing EE and JBau for their 35-40 age seasons.

 

Big key is to add Pitching this off season. We need Rogers to open up their wallets. Hopefully they can see the value now.

[Travis_Snider]

If Osuna moves to a starter...what's his max innings? Is he even a post season starter if he has limits? personally I'd just keep getting the win and half out of him as closer.

 

IIRC I dont think they are using made up innings limits anymore.

 

I dont know how realistic it is for Osuna to be considered as a option as a starter for all of next season. He literally has hardly any innings pitched in his career. (never even over 50 IP in a season until this year)

[Grant77]

If Osuna moves to a starter...what's his max innings? Is he even a post season starter if he has limits? personally I'd just keep getting the win and half out of him as closer.

 

If it were my choice, I'd stretch him out as a starter and place him in the bullpen in August, much like we did with Sanchez this year. Get him ~150 innings and he's good to go in 2017.

[JFD]

need to acquire a good LH bat or two. too many RH bats is a real problem.

[RealAccountant]

If Osuna moves to a starter...what's his max innings? Is he even a post season starter if he has limits? personally I no'd just keep getting the win and half out of him as closer.

 

Part of me would rather have the elite pen with Sanchez Osuna Cecil and Lowe ( resign )

 

How much can we put past AA at this point. Last offseason he brought in 2 great position players, an elite 3B and a damn good if not Elite catcher

 

He will get a SP.

[THANOS]

Part of me would rather have the elite pen with Sanchez Osuna Cecil and Lowe ( resign )

 

How much can we put past AA at this point. Last offseason he brought in 2 great position players, an elite 3B and a damn good if not Elite catcher

 

He will get a SP.

 

Part of me feels he may even be crafty enough to attain one of Carrasco or Kluber without giving up even half of what most of us think it would cost.

[RealAccountant]

Part of me feels he may even be crafty enough to attain one of Carrasco or Kluber without giving up even half of what most of us think it would cost.

 

It won't be a starter we have considered

 

But first move resign Ninja please

[Jim_Ackers_balls]

A better manager. Some that doesn't mismanage down the stretch. Sitting Price the last 10 days. The way the rotation was shuffled into the playoffs. Focus a little more on small ball. If the Jays can't hit home runs they don't win. Needs a more balanced approach.

 

Starting pitching and bullpen need to be a priority and not friggin offense.

 

Trading Bautista and/or EE to shore up the rotation.

 

I don't want Anthopolous back either.

[TheHurl]

If it were my choice, I'd stretch him out as a starter and place him in the bullpen in August, much like we did with Sanchez this year. Get him ~150 innings and he's good to go in 2017.

 

now think of that from a contending point of view without a lot of starting pitching depth. Pretty much requires you to pay a large price to acquire a starter at the deadline and that isn't even taking into consideration other holes and injuries. With a lot of SP options, I'd say yes to this but if the depth isn't there, I think you just give him the role he's been successful in. Keep in mind this is a guy that has thrown 5 innings or more only four times in his 5 year professional career, and never since 2013.

[CHRIS]

If it were my choice, I'd stretch him out as a starter and place him in the bullpen in August, much like we did with Sanchez this year. Get him ~150 innings and he's good to go in 2017.

 

I think I would do it in reverse; think of him as a swing/multi-inning guy and slowly stretch him out so that he could be an emergency starter down the stretch if need be. I think it's tough to go into the season anticipating him in the rotation.

 

If nothing else, hopefully this outing opens some eyes within the organization as to his potential value beyond being an afterthought.

[BTS]

What's Lowe going to cost? Something like 3/15?

[glory]

In the grand scheme of things, was Osuna in the bullpen for a season really worth it? Stretching him out will probably take two years to do effectively, and chances are any stretching out will happen in the Majors, so they'd be killing two years of additional control for development years.