What is needed next year so that the Jays keep winning?

[Spanky99]

I think Carrasco gets traded for Puig. Makes so much sense for both teams. Cleveland has a huge RF hole and some pitching depth. LAD has platoon options to replace most of Puig's value. The money is almost the same Puig 3 years $24M, Carrasco 3 Years $19M with two sliding scale options.

 

This^ About time you make sense.

[Spanky99]

Yep, this team needs 3 proven starters. Just don't see that happening. For sure resign Estrada, he can fill in the #4, then you can try a rookie at #5. But you still need high end talent in the 2/3 spot.

 

Boston/NYY are also going after top starting pitching.

 

Resign Estrada at what... 2/22?

 

That is MAX by the way^^^

[Spanky99]

Mike Leake

Mat Latos

Trade for James Shields

 

DONE

 

This isn't sexy at all.

[Spanky99]

Wei Yin Chen 3 years $36,000,000

Mat Latos 1 year $7,500,000 2017 option $8,000,000

 

Suxxxxxxxxx

[Spanky99]

A 90 win team in a weak division just swept a 97 win team in one of the best divisions in MLB history. The playoffs are a crapshoot, this talk about "put the Jays over the top" is nonsensical. A good team can usually control whether they make the playoffs or not, what happens once they get there is a crapshoot.

 

This goes without saying, history proves it.

[Spanky99]

I don't think I could stomach Latos. Isn't Kennedy a FA? He's interesting.

 

Need to sign two SP no matter what they do.

 

Latos suxxxxxxxxxx

[Spanky99]

With all due respect to your opinion it is wrong, the Cubs were considered favorites by the bookies.

 

And when i said historic i was referring to the fact that the third place team in that division won 97 games. I don't care enough to look it up but i doubt a division has been that good at the top many times before.

 

Central was dominant. Grant's dumn.

[Spanky99]

Not quite true. Good pitching *does* beat good hitting. It's one of the few old-fashioned baseball cliches that is actually true.

 

Or perhaps a better saying is good pitching and defense will beat good hitting.

 

This kind of thing was actually studied, way back. Someone dug up the research of all time greatest hitters vs the great pitchers of their day. They found that the Babe Ruths and Mickey Mantles absolutely destroyed any average or below average pitchers. But against Hall of Fame pitchers? nothing. They were very close in batting average (old fashioned study, used batting average) with any the pitchers overall batting avg against (which was always feeble). Good pitching really does shut down good hitting.

 

Of course, in a short series anything can happen. A bad pitcher can have an off day just like at any point in time during the regular season. Early in the season for example, Kershaw went through a rough patch. But your odds are against you if you can't put 3 above average starters in the playoffs.

 

That post was a s*** ton of noise.

[Spanky99]

Yes, a 4 game sweep does make them a better team. That's especially true when you consider the fact that the Mets were the better team after the deadline aquisitions.

 

It's also true that runs scored decrease around 25% in the playoffs, mostly do to the increased use of high level pitching. It's very convenient that you leave out the 4th starters, but if you believe that junkballers like Hendricks and Hammel can compare to the talent of Syndergaard and Matz then you're a fool.

 

I'm using facts to back up my argument, not a bunch of s*** about small ball and playoff experience. Get your head out of the sand.

 

Oh, the irony. Hendricks is a junkballer, lol.

[Grant77]

Oh, the irony.

 

Quit being so salty about the Cubs loss, lol. I'd swear they are more liked than the Jays here.

[Spanky99]

Quit being so salty about the Cubs loss, lol. I'd swear they are more liked than the Jays here.

 

I'm not salty, I see a great club for years to come. It sucks for me, I'd have rathered the Pirates move on?

 

The top 3 teams in the Central are better than the Mets, s*** happens in the post season, the goal is to hold sustainability to push through. Haven't you said the Bosox and Orioles were lucky in the past?

 

Sheeeeit, even the Giants, yet they've won 3 times in 6 seasons. It's a f***ing crapshoot. You simply need to get their consistently.

[Grant77]

I'm not salty, I see a great club for years to come. It sucks for me, I'd have rathered the Pirates move on?

 

The top 3 teams in the Central are better than the Mets, s*** happens in the post season, the goal is to hold sustainability to push through. Haven't you said the Bosox and Orioles were lucky in the past?

 

I really don't think they are, especially the Cubs. Sure the Mets were lucky to sweep, any team would be, but I think they would win this series more often than not if it were replayed. When you can roll out a pitching staff like the Mets, it's pretty overwhelming. Look how good they were with Wright and Cespedes in the lineup. Just as good as we were, which was pretty f***ing incredible.

 

The Cubs pitching just doesn't do it for me. Hendricks and Hammel are junkballers and the 'pen is a bunch of castoffs with mediocre stuff. There's nothing coming in the pipeline either. CJ Edwards lost it this year and got shifted to the 'pen while Pierce Johnson wasn't very good either. In my view, they're going to have to deal a hitter to address that problem or they're going to remain a flawed team that will usually lose to a team like the Mets.

[Spanky99]

I really don't think they are, especially the Cubs. Sure the Mets were lucky to sweep, any team would be, but I think they would win this series more often than not if it were replayed. When you can roll out a pitching staff like the Mets, it's pretty overwhelming. Look how good they were with Wright and Cespedes in the lineup. Just as good as we were, which was pretty f***ing incredible.

 

The Cubs pitching just doesn't do it for me. Hendricks and Hammel are junkballers and the 'pen is a bunch of castoffs with mediocre stuff. There's nothing coming in the pipeline either. CJ Edwards lost it this year and got shifted to the 'pen while Pierce Johnson wasn't very good either. In my view, they're going to have to deal a hitter to address that problem or they're going to remain a flawed team that will usually lose to a team like the Mets.

 

I'll kindly disagree, they'll add on in their SP through FA and possibly a trade because they're backed up in MLB ready now guys in multiple spots, the Cubs are going to be a force moving forward as is, not to mention this off-season. How you can't see that is beyond me.

 

Same goes for the Pirates and Cardinals, but they'll likely do it through moves. There farms are strong. I'm hoping the Jays can model after this, it seems so in arms, not so much in bats, but I like what the Jays are doing as well.

 

Bosox are loaded, so it'll be tough, as are the Yankees. Immediately next year the Rays will be tough, with their SP depth, not to mention getting Cobb in July. Regardless man, I'm talking about sustainable teams, they need to get back ASAP, and take another shot. That's the goal, it's very tough to win if you're the best team or worst, especially in a short series, period.

[Olerud363]

That post was a s*** ton of noise.

 

No it's all true. Good pitching beats good hitting except when it's David Price, Clayton Kershaw or Cueto.

 

I guess those guys are weak mentally.

[Olerud363]

I'm not salty, I see a great club for years to come. It sucks for me, I'd have rathered the Pirates move on?

 

The top 3 teams in the Central are better than the Mets, s*** happens in the post season, the goal is to hold sustainability to push through. Haven't you said the Bosox and Orioles were lucky in the past?

 

Sheeeeit, even the Giants, yet they've won 3 times in 6 seasons. It's a f***ing crapshoot. You simply need to get their consistently.

 

It's such ********. I heard a recap of the '85 playoffs and they were claiming George Brett just willed them to win... sure... And he didn't want to "will" them to win the other 7 times Royals were in the playoff in the 70s and 80s??? He didn't want to will them into the playoffs in the twilight of his career??

 

George Brett made the playoffs 7 times, won the series once.

[Boxcar]

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh. My opinion was absolutely right, the facts are right in front of you. Pitching dominates in the postseason and the Mets have it in spades.

 

The Cubs had a relatively average strength of schedule, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. A division of extremes is no more difficult to play in than a balanced division.

 

Now I remember why you're such a bad poster.

[Boxcar]

Yes, a 4 game sweep does make them a better team. That's especially true when you consider the fact that the Mets were the better team after the deadline aquisitions.

 

It's also true that runs scored decrease around 25% in the playoffs, mostly do to the increased use of high level pitching. It's very convenient that you leave out the 4th starters, but if you believe that junkballers like Hendricks and Hammel can compare to the talent of Syndergaard and Matz then you're a fool.

 

I'm using facts to back up my argument, not a bunch of s*** about small ball and playoff experience. Get your head out of the sand.

 

I bet you don't even have the slightest clue about how little you seem to know. I wouldn't say Hammel is a junkballer either but saying Hendricks is means you clearly don't know very much at all.

[Olerud363]

Central was dominant. Grant's dumn.

 

I'm still waiting for Brett Wallace to win the batting title... wait?? Didn't we actually get Wallace back this year?? So we actually do have our lefty bat for next year as long as we get Wallace signed to a contract and put him on the 40 man... Grant promised that Wallace would be a hitting machine, and Grant is never wrong.

[Stangstag]

Not quite true. Good pitching *does* beat good hitting. It's one of the few old-fashioned baseball cliches that is actually true.

 

Or perhaps a better saying is good pitching and defense will beat good hitting.

 

This kind of thing was actually studied, way back. Someone dug up the research of all time greatest hitters vs the great pitchers of their day. They found that the Babe Ruths and Mickey Mantles absolutely destroyed any average or below average pitchers. But against Hall of Fame pitchers? nothing. They were very close in batting average (old fashioned study, used batting average) with any the pitchers overall batting avg against (which was always feeble). Good pitching really does shut down good hitting.

 

Of course, in a short series anything can happen. A bad pitcher can have an off day just like at any point in time during the regular season. Early in the season for example, Kershaw went through a rough patch. But your odds are against you if you can't put 3 above average starters in the playoffs.

 

Tell that to David Murphy. Good hitting also beats good pitching.

[dineke]

Not quite true. Good pitching *does* beat good hitting. It's one of the few old-fashioned baseball cliches that is actually true.

 

Or perhaps a better saying is good pitching and defense will beat good hitting.

 

This kind of thing was actually studied, way back. Someone dug up the research of all time greatest hitters vs the great pitchers of their day. They found that the Babe Ruths and Mickey Mantles absolutely destroyed any average or below average pitchers. But against Hall of Fame pitchers? nothing. They were very close in batting average (old fashioned study, used batting average) with any the pitchers overall batting avg against (which was always feeble). Good pitching really does shut down good hitting.

 

Of course, in a short series anything can happen. A bad pitcher can have an off day just like at any point in time during the regular season. Early in the season for example, Kershaw went through a rough patch. But your odds are against you if you can't put 3 above average starters in the playoffs.

 

Dumb, bonds destroyed hall of fame pitchers too.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Everytime I see this thread and its title I get upset by it, loser thread, premature !!! We are not dead yet!!! Go Jays Go !!!

[BigCecil]

Everytime I see this thread and its title I get upset by it, loser thread, premature !!! We are not dead yet!!! Go Jays Go !!!

 

Not much of a fan of it either BBBB. We are still very much alive this season. And once you make the playoffs it's a crapshoot for the most part anyway. Issues such as unforseen injuries (like Cecil's) create scenarios than can have a big effect on outcomes.

[TheHurl]

I don't think I could stomach Latos. Isn't Kennedy a FA? He's interesting.

 

Need to sign two SP no matter what they do.

 

I think they trade for one, and junk heap about 5 or 6 and hope one sticks. Throw the rest back or into the pen.

[KingKat]

There was talk that this thread shoudn't be started now and I undestand why. It's definitely premature. There will be plenty to time for this kind of talk after the World Series but that being said, it's not an uninteresting discussion and a little 2016 talk doesn't 2015 is over. Maybe I'll just change the title to something more positive.

[Olerud363]

Tell that to David Murphy. Good hitting also beats good pitching.

 

David Murphy is very religous. I'm sure Jesus is having a role in all this. This just proves the point, Hitting good pitching in the playoffs is so hard that it can only be done if Jesus intervenes.

[TheHurl]

Tell that to David Murphy. Good hitting also beats good pitching.

 

Yeah he was pretty good in the 2011 ALCS

[puphood]

I really like the idea of Hendrik's getting another shot at starting. I think there is something there

 

x 2

[jacobdr4]

David Murphy is very religous. I'm sure Jesus is having a role in all this. This

just proves the point, Hitting good pitching in the playoffs is so hard that it can only be done if Jesus intervenes.

 

I hope this is sarcasm.

[King]

x 2

 

Lol @ Dogg having another account to agree with himself

[Spanky99]

Not much of a fan of it either BBBB. We are still very much alive this season. And once you make the playoffs it's a crapshoot for the most part anyway. Issues such as unforseen injuries (like Cecil's) create scenarios than can have a big effect on outcomes.

 

Did you see my post on Cecil, he might be back for the World Series, when we get there.