John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[glory]

I want a manager that knows who his best players are. That's all. Everything else is related to overall talent, luck, etc.

 

When you start a s***** DH in left, bring in AAAA fodder out of the pen in close games, put one of your best hitters who can't field at 1B to get a backup catcher's bat in the lineup, and so on, and you lead the league in one run losses, at some point you have to not put everything on bad luck and start realizing that runs are being sacrificed by the manager.

 

AA's moves at the deadline not only added talent but 'dummy proofed' the roster. Even Gibbons is not going to mess this roster up. Much like Cito was given that type of roster in the 90's.

[spats]

I want a manager that knows who his best players are. That's all. Everything else is related to overall talent, luck, etc.

 

When you start a s***** DH in left, bring in AAAA fodder out of the pen in close games, put one of your best hitters who can't field at 1B to get a backup catcher's bat in the lineup, and so on, and you lead the league in one run losses, at some point you have to not put everything on bad luck and start realizing that runs are being sacrificed by the manager.

 

AA's moves at the deadline not only added talent but 'dummy proofed' the roster. Even Gibbons is not going to mess this roster up. Much like Cito was given that type of roster in the 90's.

 

At the time, what were the other options in left field besides that s***** outfielder who probably won more games for them than he lost. Also, that back up catcher has to play some games and did help with the bat. EE at first is not a disaster. The bullpen at the time was a disaster. You don't see many one run losses lately, in fact, you don't see many losses. Give the guy some credit.

[Krylian]

Gibby let Trouba start the GDT. Fire Gibby!!!

[Orgfiller]

Gibby let Trouba start the GDT. Fire Gibby!!!

 

I don't know what kind of drugs everyone is on, but babau started the GDT. The answer is literally in the first post of the thread.

[Mozzer]

No reason for the hate. Gibbons is great.

[Trouba95]

No reason for the hate. Gibbons is great.

 

Lol not. Have you a game in it's entirety this season?

[Mozzer]

Of course I have. He's an easy target for fans to lash out at. Managers play a minimal role in the success/failure of a team - the quality of the players is the determining factor. Gibby doesn't play the game, he manages personalities and upholds the culture. His actual 'decisions' often tow the generic historical approaches given a certain situation. Theoretically, You could probably train a charming circus dwarf to do the same. I assure you that dwarf would have a good record with this lineup.

[Deadpool]

Of course I have. He's an easy target for fans to lash out at. Managers play a minimal role in the success/failure of a team - the quality of the players is the determining factor. Gibby doesn't play the game, he manages personalities and upholds the culture. His actual 'decisions' often tow the generic historical approaches given a certain situation. Theoretically, You could probably train a charming circus dwarf to do the same. I assure you that dwarf would have a good record with this lineup.

 

I like this guy. (or girl, or clever tree with internet access, whatever...)

[intentional wok]

Of course I have. He's an easy target for fans to lash out at. Managers play a minimal role in the success/failure of a team - the quality of the players is the determining factor. Gibby doesn't play the game, he manages personalities and upholds the culture. His actual 'decisions' often tow the generic historical approaches given a certain situation. Theoretically, You could probably train a charming circus dwarf to do the same. I assure you that dwarf would have a good record with this lineup.

 

Don't mind Trouba. It's a wonder his nervous, sweaty palms don't just slide right off his keyboard.

[Krylian]

I don't know what kind of drugs everyone is on, but babau started the GDT. The answer is literally in the first post of the thread.

 

I blame Trouba anyway.

 

..... Good drugs.

[Mozzer]

I like this guy. (or girl, or clever tree with internet access, whatever...)

 

 

I'm certainly fine with being a clever genderless tree. Quite a compliment actually, thank you.

[North of 60]

It doesn't matter who the manager is, people will always find something to complain about.

[glory]

Of course I have. He's an easy target for fans to lash out at. Managers play a minimal role in the success/failure of a team - the quality of the players is the determining factor. Gibby doesn't play the game, he manages personalities and upholds the culture. His actual 'decisions' often tow the generic historical approaches given a certain situation. Theoretically, You could probably train a charming circus dwarf to do the same. I assure you that dwarf would have a good record with this lineup.

 

Then anyone here who has bashed John Farrell and Cito Gaston must apologize. Those guys were not bad either. They just played the percentages and did what every other manager would have done.

[KingKat]

Then anyone here who has bashed John Farrell and Cito Gaston must apologize. Those guys were not bad either. They just played the percentages and did what every other manager would have done.

 

Gibbons is way more by the book than those guys were. Not sure how you could maintain otherwise.

[glory]

Gibbons is way more by the book than those guys were. Not sure how you could maintain otherwise.

 

They all did stupid stuff. None of them were forward thinking managers. I don't know why Gibbons is put on a pedestal while the others are trashed when they all practically managed the same way. "Old school" managers are a dying breed, and Gibbons is one that won't go away until Alex does, which means other teams (including the Yankees with Girardi) are going to be run smarter and better despite having an inferior roster.

[KingKat]

They all did stupid stuff. None of them were forward thinking managers. I don't know why Gibbons is put on a pedestal while the others are trashed when they all practically managed the same way. "Old school" managers are a dying breed, and Gibbons is one that won't go away until Alex does, which means other teams (including the Yankees with Girardi) are going to be run smarter and better despite having an inferior roster.

 

"Old school" can mean a bunch of different things though. Gibbons' brand of old school is cut from the Earl Weaver cloth which is pretty close to optimal strategy wise. Farrell on the other was a much more pro-active manager and Cito much, much less. Not saying they didn't all do stupid stuff. They all most certainly do but usually when Gibbons does something stupid is when he deviates from his modus operandi. The other two had modus operandi that were off to begin with. Cito was extremely stubbor about under-using the bullpen and bench whereas Farrell seemed obssessed with the idea of challenging the defense and would give away a lot of outs. You can make the argument that the hate for them was over the top if managers don't matter that much but don't re-write history to make your point by claiming that they were interchangeable strategically. That much is patently false.

[Mozzer]

Then anyone here who has bashed John Farrell and Cito Gaston must apologize. Those guys were not bad either. They just played the percentages and did what every other manager would have done.

 

However questionable, I'm not sure anyone should apologize for having an opinion. I cant imagine Farrell or Cito are losing sleep over criticism from this or any forum for that matter. Nor should they. I suspect their both thankful they happened to "manage" teams good enough to get them a ring. I maintain Peter Dinklage could have managed those teams to championships. Heck, if you can replace Gibbons with Dinklage I'm down for sheer entertainment value. Although I would miss Gibbons slow meander to the mound.

[glory]

"Old school" can mean a bunch of different things though. Gibbons' brand of old school is cut from the Earl Weaver cloth which is pretty close to optimal strategy wise. Farrell on the other was a much more pro-active manager and Cito much, much less. Not saying they didn't all do stupid stuff. They all most certainly do but usually when Gibbons does something stupid is when he deviates from his modus operandi. The other two had modus operandi that were off to begin with. Cito was extremely stubbor about under-using the bullpen and bench whereas Farrell seemed obssessed with the idea of challenging the defense and would give away a lot of outs. You can make the argument that the hate for them was over the top if managers don't matter that much but don't re-write history to make your point by claiming that they were interchangeable strategically. That much is patently false.

 

Gibbons goes by the same old school thinking of the 8th inning reliever has to pitch in the 8th inning regardless of the situation. He doesn't believe in the theory that when a starter is facing a team the 3rd or 4th time through the order that the starter is less likely to perform at a high level. He couldn't tell you who his best relievers or worst relievers are because he uses them based on gut instead of performance (hence why Sanchez, Hawkins, Schultz, Tepera, Loup, etc, are or were all ahead of Hendriks, Cecil, and Lowe in his depth chart). He couldn't care less about defence as witnessed by the video game lineups he put out early in the season, focusing on getting the best bats in the lineup rather than saving runs on the other end.

 

He is 100% an old school manager. Maybe not identical to Cito or Farrell, but not exactly the opposite either. If you want forward thinking, looking at guys like Cash in Tampa, or Girardi, and so on. The difference between managers like that and Gibbons are far more noticable than the difference between Cito/Farrell and Gibbons. So if you're going to bash Cito/Farrell, then make some room for Gibbons on the hate train.

[Frenchsoup]

Gibbons continues to be a below average manager tonight. First he doesn't bring in Pompey to pitch run for CC in the 6th with 1st and 3rd 1 out. You do this to put a ton of pressure on the defense, (mainly Swihart). It also allows you to get Smoaks defense in the rest of the game. Very basic move. Instead he pinch hits Smoak for Revere the next inning losing his best defender at 1st base and arguably his best LF defense. Also Smoak is and was a bigger double play candidate then Revere so it made no sense whatsoever other then the fact Gibbons was looking for a dinger with a hobbled Russell Martin on 1st base. This manager is very out of touch with game and needs to be replaced.

[KingKat]

Gibbons goes by the same old school thinking of the 8th inning reliever has to pitch in the 8th inning regardless of the situation. He doesn't believe in the theory that when a starter is facing a team the 3rd or 4th time through the order that the starter is less likely to perform at a high level. He couldn't tell you who his best relievers or worst relievers are because he uses them based on gut instead of performance (hence why Sanchez, Hawkins, Schultz, Tepera, Loup, etc, are or were all ahead of Hendriks, Cecil, and Lowe in his depth chart). He couldn't care less about defence as witnessed by the video game lineups he put out early in the season, focusing on getting the best bats in the lineup rather than saving runs on the other end.

 

He is 100% an old school manager. Maybe not identical to Cito or Farrell, but not exactly the opposite either. If you want forward thinking, looking at guys like Cash in Tampa, or Girardi, and so on. The difference between managers like that and Gibbons are far more noticable than the difference between Cito/Farrell and Gibbons. So if you're going to bash Cito/Farrell, then make some room for Gibbons on the hate train.

 

I don't really disagree with any of this criticism but I also don't really now how much I care. I guess Gibbons is about as good as I realistically expect. I know Maddon was quite in synch with his front office in TB and I wouldn't be surprised if Cash was too but the Jays don't have the kind of front office that TB has. Maybe with Shapiro, we'll be more progressive though I don't really know what the culture around managers was in Cleveland.

 

As for Girardi isn't he the king of the micro-matchups? That's not exactly progressive.

[43211234]

Lol not. Have you a game in it's entirety this season?

 

I think you accidentally a word.

[EMK19]

It seems like Gibby is basically seeing Pompey strictly as a pinch runner at this point... pretty surprised he hasn't got any at bats, or even come on as a defensive replacement in those two blowout games, with even Carrera being preferred over him apparently. I do want to ask him what is his thinking with this...

[John_Havok]

It seems like Gibby is basically seeing Pompey strictly as a pinch runner at this point... pretty surprised he hasn't got any at bats, or even come on as a defensive replacement in those two blowout games, with even Carrera being preferred over him apparently. I do want to ask him what is his thinking with this...

 

I would guess it's bout being a rookie vs being a guy he's had a lot more first hand knowledge of. Pure guess on my part but Gibby seems like he's just like most other old-school type managers who don't really get into the micro details of any decision.

[Mikeleelop]

Gibbons goes by the same old school thinking of the 8th inning reliever has to pitch in the 8th inning regardless of the situation. He doesn't believe in the theory that when a starter is facing a team the 3rd or 4th time through the order that the starter is less likely to perform at a high level. He couldn't tell you who his best relievers or worst relievers are because he uses them based on gut instead of performance (hence why Sanchez, Hawkins, Schultz, Tepera, Loup, etc, are or were all ahead of Hendriks, Cecil, and Lowe in his depth chart). He couldn't care less about defence as witnessed by the video game lineups he put out early in the season, focusing on getting the best bats in the lineup rather than saving runs on the other end.

 

He is 100% an old school manager. Maybe not identical to Cito or Farrell, but not exactly the opposite either. If you want forward thinking, looking at guys like Cash in Tampa, or Girardi, and so on. The difference between managers like that and Gibbons are far more noticable than the difference between Cito/Farrell and Gibbons. So if you're going to bash Cito/Farrell, then make some room for Gibbons on the hate train.

 

An old school mgr would never hit Donaldson 2nd.

Not 100% old school

Beginning of the year he brought in Castro or Cecil in 8th or 7th.

Also video game defense as u call is the result of having s*** available on the roster plus Bautista injury. Since the trade deadline look at increased use of smoak and goins is now ft 2b

[John_Havok]

An old school mgr would never hit Donaldson 2nd.

Not 100% old school

Beginning of the year he brought in Castro or Cecil in 8th or 7th.

Also video game defense as u call is the result of having s*** available on the roster plus Bautista injury. Since the trade deadline look at increased use of smoak and goins is now ft 2b

 

Don't kid yourself, Goins would have splinters in his ass if injury hadnt opened the door.

[vilifyingforce]

Don't kid yourself, Goins would have splinters in his ass if injury hadnt opened the door.

 

And? Until Goins had his revelation he was one of the worst players in baseball offensively. No manager new school or old school would have given him playing time while his OPS was sub .500. Especially if Travis was was still putting up fantastic numbers and playing passable defense.

[Stangstag]

And? Until Goins had his revelation he was one of the worst players in baseball offensively. No manager new school or old school would have given him playing time while his OPS was sub .500. Especially if Travis was was still putting up fantastic numbers and playing passable defense.

 

Travis was doing better than "passable defense"

[vilifyingforce]

Travis was doing better than "passable defense"

 

Certainly, the point was Travis had a long ways to regress before any manager in the league would have considered giving him extra time off for Ryan Goins.

[Frenchsoup]

And? Until Goins had his revelation he was one of the worst players in baseball offensively. No manager new school or old school would have given him playing time while his OPS was sub .500. Especially if Travis was was still putting up fantastic numbers and playing passable defense.

 

He did get Goins beastly bat in LF against Buchholz though.

[vilifyingforce]

From the time Saunders got hurt until Revere arrived, LF was a black hole of misery and ruin. Gibbers could have tried a signpost in LF and I wouldn't of held it against him.