John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[art_vandelay275]

I agree that letting Sanchez go a 2nd inning is his call - he gets paid to manage the team, no one else does so he has the prerogative

 

My issue is one of intent - With 1 out, men on 2nd and 3rd with Simmons up, Bourn on deck, Gibbons as the guy who is paid to do the job - what is he trying to accomplish? GB? K? IBB? etc. If it was a GB, then Sanchez is the "right" guy though I wholeheartedly disagree with going after a GB given who was at the plate. If his intent was to get a K, then he had the wrong guy in there. Personally, I am not going to question him leaving Sanchez in there for 2. My doubt and question is what was he trying to accomplish given the situation he was in

 

Yeah. People overreact way too much. Gibby manages the pen fairly well. Sometimes he makes good decisions that backfire, sometimes he makes bad decisions that work out.

 

I personally don't think he should have let Sanchez go out for another inning, but its his decision.

[glory]

Making the playoffs pretty much locks Gibbons in unless Shapiro decides to replace Alex which is unlikely. If you hate him hes not going anywhere anytime soon so get use to it.

 

That's the tragedy in all of this.

 

Well, if Clint Hurdle can be developed into a smarter manager, then maybe Wobbles is open minded enough to buy into an organizational shift in philosophy. Of course, that means AA would have to believe it as well. Maybe he does based on the type of talent he's acquired since November of last year, but telling an old school manager to execute that plan is going to be tough. Guess we have no choice.

[art_vandelay275]

Looking at the last couple of series, I am coming to the conclusion that Gibbons is managing scared. In past seasons, if he messes up, there was always some holes in the team (e.g. bullpen last year) that he could always hide behind. This year, there are basically no excuses and it's like "just don't screw it up". His quick hook, IMO, worked well in the Yankees series, especially the 2nd game on Sat. I have to admit that he piecemealed that quite nicely given the options (or lack thereof) that he had. His quick hook on Buehrle, playing Zeke instead of Pompey, etc - I chalk it up to managing scared. You couple this with him being old-school (ignoring data like splits last night, under and over managing in close games) and this is what you get.

 

I agree with the posts before - If I have to put up with Gibbons in order for me to keep AA, I'll take it - assuming he can restock the farm system and "fix" the starting rotation one way or another next year.

[Stangstag]

Looking at the last couple of series, I am coming to the conclusion that Gibbons is managing scared. In past seasons, if he messes up, there was always some holes in the team (e.g. bullpen last year) that he could always hide behind. This year, there are basically no excuses and it's like "just don't screw it up". His quick hook, IMO, worked well in the Yankees series, especially the 2nd game on Sat. I have to admit that he piecemealed that quite nicely given the options (or lack thereof) that he had. His quick hook on Buehrle, playing Zeke instead of Pompey, etc - I chalk it up to managing scared. You couple this with him being old-school (ignoring data like splits last night, under and over managing in close games) and this is what you get.

 

I agree with the posts before - If I have to put up with Gibbons in order for me to keep AA, I'll take it - assuming he can restock the farm system and "fix" the starting rotation one way or another next year.[/QUote]

 

So what you're saying is that the Jays should be winning every game, and its Gibbons' fault when they lose?

 

Excellent analysis.

[EMK19]

Actually just thought about this, could Gibbons have called in all 3 of his OFers to play on the edge of the infield grass or very shallow OF? A Sac fly loses the game anyway so is there a point playing his OFers out there in that situation?

 

I'm sure they were playing shallower than normal, but to put on something that extreme of a shift as to put them near the edge of the grass would show real bad confidence of the arms in the outfield by the manager (which is partly true with our team with Revere and Pillar's arms being bad, but you still don't want to admit and show that). The runner may still hold on a shallow fly, especially to a guy with threatening arm like Bautista, and ideally you'd want the fielder to have momentum running in to make the catch to unleash the throw rather than tracking back to catch with no momentum for the throw.

[Mac Outlaw]

This thread is full of second guessing and weak ass bellyaching.

 

Jays record since July 28th is 33-11.

 

If Gibbons is screwing things up, I can't see it from that record.

 

Baseball managers seem to get the most flak though, for whatever reason. People said Gaston was terrible when he was winning back to back World Series.

[art_vandelay275]

What I am saying is that the manager has to put the bat and ball into the right guys' hands. To win or loose is primarily on the players. What I am saying is that Gibbons is not doing that

 

So what you're saying is that the Jays should be winning every game, and its Gibbons' fault when they lose?

 

Excellent analysis.

[Spanky99]

This thread is full of second guessing and weak ass bellyaching.

 

Jays record since July 28th is 33-11.

 

If Gibbons is screwing things up, I can't see it from that record.

 

Baseball managers seem to get the most flak though, for whatever reason. People said Gaston was terrible when he was winning back to back World Series.

 

Best record in Baseball since May 20th per MLB Network.

[Sammy225]

WOW so edgy and elite, needing to act all superior on an internet mesaage board to stroke ones ego....There are people like you on every message board, it's pathetic. Message board elitists LMAO. Your post is stupid and arrogant, now that's irony. Look at me, all smarter then everyone else on this board because I say so....are you 12?

 

Don't need to stroke any ego... I think it is absolutely moronic to think that a manager will win/loose you more than 2 games in a season. 90% of managers given the Blue jays lineup would likely set it up the same way.... At least 1 through 6 bottom 3 could be interchangeable either way. Rotation would be the same in all honestly and Bullpen would look similar. with only one solid Lefty and a struggling oldtimer.... End of the day if people think there is a 10+ win manager out there they should put their helmet on and jump up on to the short bus.

[Sammy225]

I think it's moronic that just because they may only lose them 1 to 2 games a year you think people are stupid? (A number you pulled out of your ass and cannot prove), Doesn't mean people cannot discuss the merits of a manager, get off your high horse internet elitest.

 

No i mean the people that come on here and post ridiculous s*** and know it just to be annoying. The people with more than 1 account that come on here and try to be a pain in the ass. Maybe its not you but i can almost guarantee that there is a lot of people on here that are like that.

[Maahfaace]

I really wish Gibby gave Pompey a start in the outfield when he was fresh from AAA and in form. Now if he gets in it will 3+ weeks since he's seen live pitching. I really don't understand the Carrera sub late in blowouts either, with the only reasoning being to keep him fresh as he will be on the postseason roster ahead of Pompey. Mind boggling that he and or AA think Carrera is better 4th OF option than Pompey. Pompey is a better fielder, base runner, and I personally think better hitter even with his early season struggles.

[TBJESE]

I'm sure they were playing shallower than normal, but to put on something that extreme of a shift as to put them near the edge of the grass would show real bad confidence of the arms in the outfield by the manager (which is partly true with our team with Revere and Pillar's arms being bad, but you still don't want to admit and show that).

 

Pillar has a great arm. He has like 6 rARM this year, which is one of the best in the Majors. Also Major League teams are too smart to be fooled like that - they know the strength of everybody's arms (except Bautista - they might be wondering about his health, but they're not going to buy a bluff that Revere has a strong arm: Atlanta has played dozens of games against him).

 

ideally you'd want the fielder to have momentum running in to make the catch to unleash the throw rather than tracking back to catch with no momentum for the throw.

 

That's a small trade-off but it's way more than offset by the ability to catch shallow no-man's bloops/Luis Gonzales flares that the drawn-in infield would otherwise catch.

[Krylian]

If we're complaining about who the subs are in blowout games, things are looking pretty damn good!

[G-Snarls]

Gibby was just on MLB Network for 10 mins

 

A few tidbits

 

Tulo "could barely move his arm" last week. But hes getting better. Didn't say if he really expects him back this year

 

Hutch "was not the happiest guy in the world" when told he was moving to the pen but "he took it like a proessional"

 

He wants to give guys days off but these games are too big to do so. Plus "people pay to watch the stars play, not watch me manage"

[polar bear]

I'm old enough to remember the 92/93 championships,and I put Gibby and Cito on a par.

Both have made head scratching decisions,Cito won despite his shortcomings,and if Gibby does the same,

then he should keep his job.

[polar bear]

I remember Cito leaving leave stewart way too long when we were up 5-1 in game 6 WS against the phillies, stewart was clearly gassed at close to 120 pitches, then the same game when it is 5-4 after stewart gas cans, he leaves the righty reliever in to face lefties, then brings in Al leiter to face righties after the philles took the lead.......Such horriffic managing, luckily Joe Carter let him off the hook.

 

That's the sort of things I recall also,his use of the bullpen was way worse than Gibby's.

But had the good fortune to have a line-up stacked with all-stars to bail him out.

[Caper]

Leaving Goins in to bat against the lefty was the worst decision I've seen Gibby make all year. What a terrible, terrible move.

[BigBopper]

Gibbons needs to out as a manager he has a bullpen full of pitchers but he running the same guys out

That's not managing.

[37stieb]

Anyone know the deal with Gibbons and Pompey? I get the feeling Gibby thinks Pompey can't hit for s*** and only chooses him to PR or is there a another reason like poor behaviour from Pompey. Really baffled by this.

[glory]

He has practically every Cito tendency down pat. Maybe that's a good thing considering what happened in 92 and 93.

 

Even with a friggin all star team he manages to f*** up too often.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Pillar has a great arm. He has like 6 rARM this year, which is one of the best in the Majors

 

My take on Pillar's arm is it's an average strength, very accurate arm. And the one trait I love about Pillar that plays his arm up is, he's getting the ball in as soon as he catches it. There's no delay, it's immediate.

[EMK19]

Yeah Pillar's arm IMO it is of more or less average strength. Definitely not to be relied on to throw out someone at the plate tagging at 3rd, but I guess it takes a pretty special CF arm to be a true threat for those. It's a bit worrying that our starting OF doesn't have much of an arm threat for runners tagging home though, with Revere's arm basically being equal to that of Shannon Stewart, Pillar's not being strong enough and Bautista's seemingly rapidly declining in strength/accuracy (although there is that injury that may still be affecting him). Runners may still not run easily on Bautista due to the reputation he's built up over the years though, or at least I'd hope that's still the case.

[labadee]

I was listening to a clip on SN590 where they had a reporter asking Gibbons about his thought process and why he brought him in Sanchez. Gibbons responded with ask me about price and i'll answer your question. The reporter asked him about Price to which Gibbons said he was fantastic, what did Gibbons say was his rationale about Sanchez?

[glory]

I was listening to a clip on SN590 where they had a reporter asking Gibbons about his thought process and why he brought him in Sanchez. Gibbons responded with ask me about price and i'll answer your question. The reporter asked him about Price to which Gibbons said he was fantastic, what did Gibbons say was his rationale about Sanchez?

 

He probably burped, laughed, and then changed the subject. Just a guess.

[Stangstag]

I was listening to a clip on SN590 where they had a reporter asking Gibbons about his thought process and why he brought him in Sanchez. Gibbons responded with ask me about price and i'll answer your question. The reporter asked him about Price to which Gibbons said he was fantastic, what did Gibbons say was his rationale about Sanchez?

 

Said he wanted to give Sanchez a chance, knowing that he would give him a quick hook and that Cecil would be able to pick up some strikeouts. Then talked about how Cecil is one of the "better relievers in baseball" and that all the good relievers rack up strikeouts.

[Spanky99]

I was listening to a clip on SN590 where they had a reporter asking Gibbons about his thought process and why he brought him in Sanchez. Gibbons responded with ask me about price and i'll answer your question. The reporter asked him about Price to which Gibbons said he was fantastic, what did Gibbons say was his rationale about Sanchez?

 

He didn't answer, straight away, then what he said^^^sorry.

[KingKat]

Said he wanted to give Sanchez a chance, knowing that he would give him a quick hook and that Cecil would be able to pick up some strikeouts. Then talked about how Cecil is one of the "better relievers in baseball" and that all the good relievers rack up strikeouts.

 

At least he was cognisent that he was taking a chance by putting in Sanchez but at some point, he has to stop "giving people chances" and just manage strategically. I know relievers prefer to have defined roles but he's taking it way too far.

[Statman]

John Gibbons along with guys like Farrell and Ned Yost prove that even the most incompetent mangers can win when the talent is there.

 

Gibbons has been really bad.

[CHRIS]

At least he was cognisent that he was taking a chance by putting in Sanchez but at some point, he has to stop "giving people chances" and just manage strategically. I know relievers prefer to have defined roles but he's taking it way too far.

 

Yes, I think he's more aware of situations than a lot of people give him credit for. I'm curious to know if he would have handled things differently in a two-run game instead of a four-run game. I would bet that Sanchez is going to be removed from his 8th inning role until they can get him back on track.

 

Probably a blessing in disguise that Sanchez struggled without it costing the team last night's game.

[Spanky99]

Yes, I think he's more aware of situations than a lot of people give him credit for. I'm curious to know if he would have handled things differently in a two-run game instead of a four-run game. I would bet that Sanchez is going to be removed from his 8th inning role until they can get him back on track.

 

Probably a blessing in disguise that Sanchez struggled without it costing the team last night's game.

 

Said this last night, trying to ensure some confidence, that failed.