BP: Aaron Sanchez

[GeorgiaPeach]

how about jesse chavez....pitchers come out of no where all the time. They make mechanical adjustments, they learn new pitches...they get confidence. If AA trades Sanchez and in 2 years he turns into a stud, you'll be the first one posting on this board about what AA was an idiot and you knew all along how great his stuff was and that he would be a good pitcher.

 

 

I'd rather not use Chavez as a comp' who's showing for the first time he can pitch as a SP. If he does this again next year then I'll cut him some slack.

[Convo]

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkqm0enAZt1qh59n0o1_500.gif

[kgm1]

I don't pretend to know more than professional scouts but I do know that the jays have to draft and develop their own players. One thing Riccaedi didn't do. That is the single most reason for the 20 year drought. Trading it all away ( Gord Ash ) after finally getting talent into the system will result in another long long drought.

[Nox]

Wtf...Norris or Sanchez will not be traded for a mediocre 2B, its as simple as that

 

So just that we're clear here, Zobrist is the mediocre 2B you're referring to right? I mean, I wouldn't want to misquote you on something like that.

[Chappy]

If we keep trading our young talent we will soon wind up as the AL East version of the Phillies only without their long playoff run. Lots of cases where pitchers took a long time to gain their command. Randy Johnson walked over 5 per 9 age 25 thru 28 .

 

There are so many more who failed with that kind of walk rate.

[flafson]

So just that we're clear here, Zobrist is the mediocre 2B you're referring to right? I mean, I wouldn't want to misquote you on something like that.

 

Zobrist isn't having a good year, that's for sure.

 

EDIT: Funny part, he still put up 2.2 WAR as of right now, a bit chunk of it seems to be from defense. Offense wise this year is similar to his down year in 2010 where he put up 3.7 WAR.

[G-Snarls]

I don't pretend to know more than professional scouts but I do know that the jays have to draft and develop their own players. One thing Riccaedi didn't do. That is the single most reason for the 20 year drought. Trading it all away ( Gord Ash ) after finally getting talent into the system will result in another long long drought.

 

And they seem.poised to be doing this, at least on the pitching front

 

Hutch

Stroman

Loup

Nolin

 

Might all be legit major league pitchers by this time next year. That would sure be refreshing.

 

As for position players, that drought seems likely to continue. All of Thames, Snider, D'Arnaud, Arencibia seem unlikely to fully pan out. Only Lawrie really has and we didn't draft him. (Nor D'Arnaud I suppose too)

[The Cats Ass]

Yeah, and "lots of cases" of people winning the lottery, too. Would you, therefore, advise a youngster to chose "lottery player" as his career path?

 

I would advise them to do that. But only Lotto Max. Go big or go home!

[SJE32]

Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi 51s

Intriguingly, AA says recent arm-slot adjustment for Aaron Sanchez helping command, makes him think RHP could help this season.

Toronto, Toronto

[G-Snarls]

Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi 51s

Intriguingly, AA says recent arm-slot adjustment for Aaron Sanchez helping command, makes him think RHP could help this season.

Toronto, Toronto

 

Wait, not 100% sure what he means - he thinks Sanchez could pitch on the major league team this season?!?!

[kgm1]

There are so many more who failed with that kind of walk rate.

 

The failure rate is huge! For every 10 good pitching prospect, what is it 2 ? 3 make it ? So when you trade more than 1/2 of them away your odds of having even1 make it go down . I know his walk rate is down right ugly but even if he winds up a #5 it is better than being the 2016 version of the phillies and having nothing. And IF and I know this is a big IF he does get decent control then he is a 3 and we will need pitching.

[kgm1]

Yeah, and "lots of cases" of people winning the lottery, too. Would you, therefore, advise a youngster to chose "lottery player" as his career path?

 

So gut the minors again for a what 10 % shot? Glad you super scouts know who to trade. funny , Most of the posters who crucify AA still for the trades that gutted the minors now want him to gut them again because of course they watched a few MILB games and know better than our development people.

[burlingtonbandit]

I think for this club it is better that they are good at developing pitching prospects rather than position players. Because of the ball park it is much easier to find a position player free agent compared to a free agent pitcher.

[Chappy]

The failure rate is huge! For every 10 good pitching prospect, what is it 2 ? 3 make it ? So when you trade more than 1/2 of them away your odds of having even1 make it go down . I know his walk rate is down right ugly but even if he winds up a #5 it is better than being the 2016 version of the phillies and having nothing. And IF and I know this is a big IF he does get decent control then he is a 3 and we will need pitching.

 

Number fives are a dime a dozen. We need frontline starters. We could have a solid trio as soon as next season with Hutch, Stroman and Norris. We have guys like Nolin who could fill the number 5 slot. If we are going to be trading anyone, I'd rather move Sanchez who still seems to have good value, yet has some of the worst control in the system. Banking on guys like Sanchez could be more detrimental to the organization than trading him away. Top prospects shouldn't be thought of as guys who 'at worst' may be our number 5. We should be saying at worst he will be a mid rotation guy and I'm not sure many are comfortable doing so. To me that sounds like a guy who may be a good sell high option.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Number fives are a dime a dozen. We need frontline starters. We could have a solid trio as soon as next season with Hutch, Stroman and Norris. We have guys like Nolin who could fill the number 5 slot. If we are going to be trading anyone, I'd rather move Sanchez who still seems to have good value, yet has some of the worst control in the system. Banking on guys like Sanchez could be more detrimental to the organization than trading him away. Top prospects shouldn't be thought of as guys who 'at worst' may be our number 5. We should be saying at worst he will be a mid rotation guy and I'm not sure many are comfortable doing so. To me that sounds like a guy who may be a good sell high option.

 

As long as we're not ridiculously overpaying for old players with prospects and still no guarantee to make the playoffs.

[Jimcanuck]

Number fives are a dime a dozen. We need frontline starters. We could have a solid trio as soon as next season with Hutch, Stroman and Norris. We have guys like Nolin who could fill the number 5 slot. If we are going to be trading anyone, I'd rather move Sanchez who still seems to have good value, yet has some of the worst control in the system. Banking on guys like Sanchez could be more detrimental to the organization than trading him away. Top prospects shouldn't be thought of as guys who 'at worst' may be our number 5. We should be saying at worst he will be a mid rotation guy and I'm not sure many are comfortable doing so. To me that sounds like a guy who may be a good sell high option.

 

Let's see how Sanchez's next few starts pan out. He showed front of the rotation potential in Montreal.

 

Sanchez, Hutchison, Stroman, Norris, and ? could be a fantastic and cheap (!) rotation April 2016

 

Would be money available for some top FA position players

[Chappy]

As long as we're not ridiculously overpaying for old players with prospects and still no guarantee to make the playoffs.

 

Depends on the player and the situation. If AA can get a guy who helps this team this year and next and then results in a pick at the end, it could very well be worth it depending on the price tag of prospects. Perhaps a salary dump of a good player. Or the alternative is AA acquires a longer term option. Im not talking about guys like Price or Shark that will cripple the system. If no such option exists then hold onto the prospects and look to deal in the winter when alternative options may become available. The key is not to rely on hoarding prospects as a viable strategy, nor trading all of them away. A balance needs to be made, otherwise this team will never make a sustained run at contention.

[Chappy]

Let's see how Sanchez's next few starts pan out. He showed front of the rotation potential in Montreal.

 

Sanchez, Hutchison, Stroman, Norris, and ? could be a fantastic and cheap (!) rotation April 2016

 

Would be money available for some top FA position players

 

No one doubts his potential, the likelihood of ever reaching it however seem dim at best. Maybe he turns a corner, but even if he does he probably still has control problems and doesn't amount to much more than a mid rotation arm that everyone keeps saying 'what if'.

[NorthOf49]

So gut the minors again for a what 10 % shot? Glad you super scouts know who to trade. funny , Most of the posters who crucify AA still for the trades that gutted the minors now want him to gut them again because of course they watched a few MILB games and know better than our development people.

We're on a much difference place on the marginal win curve than we were two offseasons ago. An extra couple wins could bring huge returns to the franchise.

 

Nobody criticized AA strictly for "gutting the minors," we criticized him for overpaying for Dickey and trading assets for essentially free agent contacts from the Marlins (although I was in favour of the Marlins trade). You're never going to get anywhere arguing with strawmen.

[GeorgiaPeach]

No one doubts his potential, the likelihood of ever reaching it however seem dim at best. Maybe he turns a corner, but even if he does he probably still has control problems and doesn't amount to much more than a mid rotation arm that everyone keeps saying 'what if'.

 

So like McGowan?

[Chappy]

So like McGowan?

 

Doesn't really matter who.

[Caper]

Sanchez will be a beast.

[Iluvbjs]

Depends on the player and the situation. If AA can get a guy who helps this team this year and next and then results in a pick at the end, it could very well be worth it depending on the price tag of prospects. Perhaps a salary dump of a good player. Or the alternative is AA acquires a longer term option. Im not talking about guys like Price or Shark that will cripple the system. If no such option exists then hold onto the prospects and look to deal in the winter when alternative options may become available. The key is not to rely on hoarding prospects as a viable strategy, nor trading all of them away. A balance needs to be made, otherwise this team will never make a sustained run at contention.

 

I'm not sure that trading for a guy like Price "cripples" our system. If we give them Sanchez, a mid level prospect and maybe a Drabek type player, I don't see why T.B wouldn't go for that. Sanchez is viewed as a top 50 prospect with a live arm, which is exactly what the rays seem to be after year after year. They're faced with losimng Price and I think that brings the asking price down a little bit doesn't it?

[Iluvbjs]

Alvarez was rushed. He would have been far better off not wasting service time and working on developing his third pitch. I mean he was serviceable as an extreme pitch to contact guy but he really wasn't any better than say J.A. Happ or any other journeyman pitcher (Philip Humber is a good comparison for the young Alvarez). If he'd been kept in the minors, he would have had a better opportunity to develop an out pitch and become a better strikeout pitcher and he probably would have received more prospect hype and boosted his trade value too.

 

He was rushed? Because to me, it looks like they've timed his progression perfectly. The Marlins are reaping the rewards of him having a full year of MLB service under his belt and he is throwing great baseball for that team right now. Guys already thrown a no-hitter and a streak of scoreless innings stretching three games.

 

The only thing rushed was the jays trading a yound pitcher who will at some point, probably win 20 games. I was shocked when the jays traded him and we're seeing now what kind of value he has now that he's consistenly keeping that 95mph sinker down below the knees

[Nox]

If we give them Sanchez' date=' a mid level prospect and maybe a Drabek type player, I don't see why T.B wouldn't go for that.[/quote']

 

You mean other than the fact it's a s***** package? I'm not sure if this is news to you but other teams might also be interested in acquiring David Price.

 

Sanchez is viewed as a top 50 prospect

 

By publicly employed scouts. A team influenced at all by analytics would not have Aaron Sanchez anywhere near a top 50.

 

with a live arm' date=' which is exactly what the rays seem to be after year after year. [/quote']

 

Pretty sure the Rays just want good players for good value.

 

They're faced with losimng Price and I think that brings the asking price down a little bit doesn't it?

 

Holding him during a (pseudo) contending year next year has great value in itself.

[Atothe]

I'm not sure that trading for a guy like Price "cripples" our system. If we give them Sanchez' date=' a mid level prospect and maybe a Drabek type player, I don't see why T.B wouldn't go for that. Sanchez is viewed as a top 50 prospect with a live arm, which is exactly what the rays seem to be after year after year. They're faced with losimng Price and I think that brings the asking price down a little bit doesn't it?[/quote']

 

this is ridiculous and thats coming from a Sanchez homer

[Mikeleelop]

No. They'd scoff at that trade proposal, and rightfully so. They have a year and a half of Price.

 

but the other complicating factor is that the Rays do not want to pay Price what he will earn through arbitration - likely something north of $20mil

 

can the Jays afford that next year??

[Atothe]

but the other complicating factor is that the Rays do not want to pay Price what he will earn through arbitration - likely something north of $20mil

 

can the Jays afford that next year??

 

Yes

[HERPDERP]

In the article, AA just said that Sanchez would be able to contribute this year as a starter or reliever, and that he mad mechanical changes with his arm angle lately.

[Atothe]

In the article, AA just said that Sanchez would be able to contribute this year as a starter or reliever, and that he mad mechanical changes with his arm angle lately.

 

what article?