Can Ryan Goins stick?

[G-Snarls]

Unless AA lands an impact 2B, you can count on an Izturis / Goins combo at 2B. I think AA would rather roll with the AAS of $3M with Izturis and hope he bounces back to his career .270 / .331 numbers than sign Infante (career .279 / .319) who has pretty much identical numbers , but will probably get $6-8M per next year.

 

I just hope the old AA is back and told old man Beeston to GFH. The Lincoln for Kratz / Rasmussen deal and Navarro signing was a good start.

 

I'm optimistic Izturis will bounce back offensively, and Goins can be our late inning defensive replacement specialist. The defense up the middle has upgraded massively with the additions of Navarro/Kratz with Goins at 2B when defending a late inning lead.

 

If he can sign a good DH/bench/platoon partner for Lind, and land a decent starter without giving up more than one top prospect or draft pick, then I'm happy with this off season

 

There's still the mid season trade deadline next year to grab something you need, once it's more clear what that is

[G-Snarls]

Obligatory bump cause our best target (infante) is off the board

[Jays]

Ellis still available. I don't think this team is old enough yet.

[Grant77]

Ellis, Roberts, Ackley, Franklin...lots of options out there still, no need to overpay yet.

[Candy Maldonado]

Ellis still available. I don't think this team is old enough yet.

 

x2 now that Oliver and Derosa are gone the team is too young

[G-Snarls]

Ellis, Roberts, Ackley, Franklin...lots of options out there still, no need to overpay yet.

 

Still worried that Goins appears to be "sticking" though

 

Since we undershot at catcher and may not acquire a #1/2 pitcher we should be upgrading at second or LF.

[KingKat]

Still worried that Goins appears to be "sticking" though

 

Since we undershot at catcher and may not acquire a #1/2 pitcher we should be upgrading at second or LF.

 

From the beginning, signing Ellis has seemed like most painless way for this team to add wins. No one else is likely to provide the same kind of cost benefit especially now.

[Sorrow]

I'd sign Ellis and hope for the best, see if you can bring in Brian Roberts on a minor league deal and see if you can catch a fluke of health for the first time in what feels like a decade.

[KingKat]

I'd sign Ellis and hope for the best, see if you can bring in Brian Roberts on a minor league deal and see if you can catch a fluke of health for the first time in what feels like a decade.

 

Ship has sailed. Ellis to the Cards.

[KingKat]

Jamey Carroll, free agent (.292/.365/.369) – The Blue Jays maintain some interest in the 39-year-old. His history of hitting left-handers and playing multiple positions has generated interest from AL East teams including the Tampa Bay Rays.

 

[HERPDERP]

Well what do you suggest King

 

I know we all would like to get Ackley or Franklin but if we can't do that, then what do you want?

Trade Stroman for Walker?

[HERPDERP]

Arm Chair GM

 

I would have signed a 2B Free Agent, used Izturis as the utility man, sent Goins down to AAA to work on his hitting.

 

Now that we haven't signed a 2B Free Agent, I would try to work out a trade for a 2B, use Izturis as the utility man and sent Goins down to AAA to work on his hitting.

 

I think we all would have done that, but at what cost?

 

If AA is seriously considering Goins as a 2B, one of these two things happened

 

a.) AA turned into derp

b.) AA viewed the trade market as too demanding.

 

I assume any 2B you would want to acquire would be decent. Decent 2B will be hard to come by, and slightly expensive (outside of Strohenz)

[Howard Roark]

Only way to add the 5+ wins needed to be competitive now is to trade away the farm. I'd rather blow it up, but that's just me.

[Howard Roark]

Yes, we all would. We wouldn't lose our job because of it though.

 

Obvious point is obvious.

 

This half-assed "All In" s*** is infuriating. We're stuck around 85 wins and we're standing pat. We'll trade away more of the farm for a #3, adding maybe a win or two in the process, and call it an offseason. Pathetic.

[DuckDuckGose]

Only way to add the 5+ wins needed to be competitive now is to trade away the farm. I'd rather blow it up, but that's just me.

 

Not true. AA could still sign Choo and Garza. Trade Rasmus for Bailey.

 

Go with Jose at 3B, Lawrie at 2B, Choo in RF, Gose in CF.

 

The other option (which can be left to the deadline) would be to trade players whose deals are up in a year two. That means Melky, Morrow, Janssen, Lind, Rasmus, Happ, Santos and Buehrle would all be shipped out. I don't know if you would call this strategy a rebuild, IMO it's just re-tooling with youth.

[Howard Roark]

Not true. AA could still sign Choo and Garza. Trade Rasmus for Bailey.

 

Go with Jose at 3B, Lawrie at 2B, Choo in RF, Gose in CF.

 

The other option (which can be left to the deadline) would be to trade players whose deals are up in a year two. That means Melky, Morrow, Janssen, Lind, Rasmus, Happ, Santos and Buehrle would all be shipped out. I don't know if you would call this strategy a rebuild, IMO it's just re-tooling with youth.

 

Like we're going to sign a FA, have you been paying attention these last few years?

 

This team doesn't like to add wins unless we can trade away our farm in inefficient deals to do so.

[flafson]

I'd much rather AA spent his effort on pitching. I wouldn't have a problem with Goins on defense simply because he will make our pitchers look better.

[JaysRap]

I think we all would have done that, but at what cost?

 

If AA is seriously considering Goins as a 2B, one of these two things happened

 

a.) AA turned into derp

b.) AA viewed the trade market as too demanding.

 

I assume any 2B you would want to acquire would be decent. Decent 2B will be hard to come by, and slightly expensive (outside of Strohenz)

 

It could be AA has gone both.

 

He can't tell us that the trade market is too demanding AND the free agent market is too expensive. Those are built in crutches of why you are never able to upgrade or change your team.

 

If AA is truly committed to making change then he should be doing both.

[L54]

It doesn't take that much effort to sign a second baseman... St. Louis probably spent under 6 hours total courting Mark Ellis. You make a few calls and voila, your team is two wins better.

 

That's easy to do when you're one of the best franchises in the MLB. I'm sure it wouldn't have been that easy for AA to lure Ellis here.

 

I'm not disagreeing he should've been a target, but this isn't takeout where you just call and order what you want and pick it up.

[saskjayfan]

Going to assume this because he views Goins > Izturis

 

Izturis > Goins IMO

 

Instilling some confidence in the pitching staff is way more important than any offensive difference between goins and izzy......goins plays against righties and izzy plays against lefties...

[theblujay]

I think you are underestimating the offensive difference between Goins and Izturis.

 

Goins wRC+ last year: 62

 

Izturis: 63

[theblujay]

I think you are underestimating the offensive difference between Goins and Izturis.

 

There's just so many things wrong with this.

 

Well I think you're overestimating it.

[theblujay]

I think we could estimate Izturis somewhere in between 80 and 100 wRC+ for 2014. Prime bounce back candidate.

 

Goins... 60? Maybe

 

Ok bud I know Izturis is better on offense, just don't make it seem like a joke when comparing them when their offensive stats were identical last year.

[Howard Roark]

Man, you two need to get together at the Official Toronto Blue Jays Message Board IRL Battleground and settle this one like men.

 

Like 100 pages of almost-exclusive back-and-forth about the relative shittyness to be expected from 2B for us next year.

[theblujay]

Btw Goins had a 62 wRC+ on a .315 BABIP, Izturis had a 63 wRC+ on a .249 BABIP.

 

Izturis had a higher BB% , lower K%

 

There stats weren't identical unless you were just looking at wRC+

 

You seem like that kid in the class who is pretty smart and does most of the work, but desperately wants to fit in with the cool crowd, so you act like you don't try and don't care. But you can't help yourself when someone makes a grammatical error, or says the wrong word, and you correct them because you're smarter than them.

 

You think everyone likes you because you try act cool, but really they all rip on you behind your back because you just can't resist showing your intelligence.

[theblujay]

Good response to being shown up. Classic theblujay.

 

Dude your ego is bigger than your inflated post count. Go look at the numbers they put up last year, that's all I'm talking about.

 

(Inb4 Gordie with the newest, cool, funny macro.)

[theblujay]

I posted some numbers. Not sure if you missed that or not but, they don't have identical stats.

 

wOBA:

Goins: .267

Izzy: .269

 

wRC+:

Goins: 62

Izzy: 63

 

There's their numbers for last year. That's what they produced last year on offense. That's how valuable they were on offense. That's how good they were last year. These are the numbers you look at to see how the did LAST YEAR.

 

" the offensive difference between Goins and Izturis."

62---63

[GD]

Dude your ego is bigger than your inflated post count. Go look at the numbers they put up last year, that's all I'm talking about.

 

I won't pretend to have read enough to know if this is/isn't your main point (you mentioning me is the only thing that caught my eye) but their last year stats aren't the only things that influence their projections. Their track records/past three years have quite a bit of say as well. I like Maicer's projection of 84 wRC+. I doubt he puts up anywhere near 60 again, RTTM and the fact that it's kind of hard to be that bad should take care of that.

 

Although we've already discussed all of this 30 times so

[GD]

" the offensive difference between Goins and Izturis."

62---63

 

true talent level

it's a thing

 

-waits for TL to take the bait-

[GD]

It started at the very top of page 105, lol

 

Post 2081

 

You know full well I skim because I'm too lazy to actually read.