Beeston doesn’t regret offseason moves "If we don't win this year, we win next year"

[Deadpool]

The Rangers took a HUGE risk on Darvish. It's looking like it's going to definitely pay off for them, but that's the kind of move that can cripple a franchise for years if you get it wrong. For where we were at the time, I'm not upset nor do I think we should regret not getting him. Like many others, I would have loved to have gotten Latos though.

 

Darvish's price tag including the posting fee works out to $18M/year... We're paying $11M this year, $18M next yer and $19M in 2 years for Mark Buehrle, and $36M for 3 years of Dickey... I don't think that's a franchise crippling move by any stretch.

[saskjayfan]

Lawrie, JPA and Boni have to be out the door before next year if this team seriously wants to compete. only way I'd keep Lawrie is if he has it written into his contract to take his ADHD meds. those 3 guys are cancers that have no idea how to spell team, never mind be part of one.

 

the circus that is Kawasaki isn't horrible if they have 8 other guys who can hit. since that probably isn't the case they need a second baseman that can play D and hit.

 

This team doesn't have many "untouchables" moves should be made.

 

Boni is a bench piece.....who cares...JPA...hopefully something done there...but he's a number 8 hitter....lawrie...he's an *******, but he's a talented *******...he's taking lots of walks so far in his rehab....which is good..and he's going to be very good when he comes back. He has had a bad year so far, but we're talking about 37 games. That's an insignificant amount of games and not a large enough sample size to guage anything. People can't separate their hatred of the guy when evaluating his talent. I can't believe how many people have written Brett off. Brett is an arrogant prick, but he's an arrogant prick who's going to do lots of things to win games for the jays.

[Arkadium]

Boni is a bench piece.....who cares...JPA...hopefully something done there...but he's a number 8 hitter....lawrie...he's an *******, but he's a talented *******...he's taking lots of walks so far in his rehab....which is good..and he's going to be very good when he comes back. He has had a bad year so far, but we're talking about 37 games. That's an insignificant amount of games and not a large enough sample size to guage anything. People can't separate their hatred of the guy when evaluating his talent. I can't believe how many people have written Brett off. Brett is an arrogant prick, but he's an arrogant prick who's going to do lots of things to win games for the jays.

 

Ignorant and arrogant, those are both good descriptions of him.

[Caper]

There's another way to put on weight?

 

You can date my buddy Duncan.

[oakville69]

1 rock solid innings eater starter. Meaningless last year. But this year it would.

 

No need to trade for Dickey meaning:

A) No Dickey giving up 6+ runs most starts

Still have D'Arnaud and Syndergaard

 

 

Dammit I'm tired of complaining about that non-signing. But in retrospect its the one move that really would have paid off the most.

 

It would have been great if the team could have started spedning in 2012. I could see why Rogers was afraid to spend 100 million on a japanese pitcher that had never pitched in the MLB.

[Terminator]

From everything we've heard Rogers has never declined to spend the money. Don't blame the Darvish fiasco on Rogers. AA was the one who decided not to invest in him.

 

You don't know that.

[Terminator]

If that isn't the case then this team is a gong show. Keeping your GM in the dark regarding payroll before announcing to him 3 years into his tenure that he can raise payroll by 50% is a terrible way to run a franchise. I tend to believe the payroll flexibility has been there all along.

 

And now you are making another assumption that ownership kept AA in the dark.

[Terminator]

That's what Beeston and AA have said repeatedly. They didn't spend the money in past years because it wasn't part of the plan. There's no reason to believe Rogers told them to lie about that.

 

Isn't it entirely possible that ownership never really had a 100% set in stone plan regarding the payroll? Perhaps it was a fluid plan where they told AA that he was going to have to work with a limited payroll for anywhere from 2-4 years and then they'd expand it. That would fall in line with what AA told the public would it not?

 

Many on this board present everything as an either/or proposition where someone is either a big fat liar or they are telling the truth and are idiots. Things aren't always so clear cut.

[G-Snarls]

There was also the repeated statement that attendance had to go up in order to be able to spend more on payroll.

 

And it (attendance) has been, and it (payroll) has.

[G-Snarls]

There was also the repeated statement that attendance had to go up in order to be able to spend more on payroll.

 

And it (attendance) has been, and it (payroll) has.

 

Threadworthy...

Edited July 10, 2013 by G-Snarls

[Terminator]

Either AA knew he had the money or he didn't.

 

Why? Couldn't they have told him that he was going to have a limited payroll for 2-4 years but eventually they would expand it? You aren't behind the scenes so to make these either/or statements is speculation. Ownership could have given AA a very fluid plan and timeline for the payroll in which case he wouldn't know if he "had the money or he didn't."

[Chappy]

No one really knows.

[G-Snarls]

No one really knows.

 

We know little

 

We know that last season, long before the Marlins trade, AA was "really close" to a deal that would have had "major payroll implications" and Beeston/Rogers were on board

 

P.S. Who did we think that deal was for anyway?

[Terminator]

Yeah I understand what you're getting at and it makes sense. AA/Beeston and Rogers would have worked the plan out together and decided it would take 2-4 years to build the team.

 

I'm expressing that it's strange and frustrating that all the money became available at once. With a more gradual increase they could have done a much better job building the team. It's hard to say who was responsible for all the money being spent in one offseason, all the parties involved probably had something to do with it.

 

Yes, I agree with you there. A more gradual increase would be ideal.

[Terminator]

Like I said before I think that's a s***** way to build a team. Making a GM sit bottom-third in payroll for three years and then opening up the vaults gets you the disastrous 2012 offseason. You need to be able to assemble pieces as opportunity knocks.

 

Agreed. Cramming 5-7 big upgrades in one offseason is a tough job to pull off. Especially when the team has a history of flailing in Free Agency.

[G-Snarls]

Maybe it was just the Peavy thing and they were going to pick up the $22M option. That's fairly large, and perhaps Chicago was going to give us somebody else too.

 

Maybe

 

My gut feeling was that it was something even bigger (Felix Hernandez) - remember the guy who was badgering Ken Rosenthal on Twitter saying he knew The Jays were having meetings with the Mariners about possibly trading for him? I was never 100% convinced that was actually BS.

[Olerud363]

Afraid so. They've got boatloads of prospects on the way, including Xander Bogaerts, Rubby De La Rosa, Allen Webster, Brandon Workman, Anthony Ranudo, Drake Britton, etc. Yankees don't have that luxury, especially with the injury/regression of many of their prospects.

 

The frustrating thing is that the red sox retooled without giving up a single young player... so now are looking unbelievable. Bogaerts?? This is the kind of player I dreamed AA would be able to develop.

 

Napoli, Victorino, Dempster, Gomes, Carp, Uereha, Hanrahan (didn't work out) for almost zero in young players. getting rid of contracts and getting young players in August last year.

 

Getting us to develop a manager and coaching staff for them. Avoiding duds (they had an opportunity to bid for the Marlins but didn't... maybe they knew something??). Great, great 12 months.

 

Paul Beeston, incompentent as they come. The only thing he and his fat Ninja have done is develop a coaching staff for the best organization in baseball, the Boston Red Sox.

 

Mr. Paul Beeston, if things are the same Oct 1st this year, please lick Larry Luchino's boots. Resign, and hope that Rogers can find a Luchino (but don't help them try to find your replacement).

[digiblader]

It's not all good in Boston--they can't find a decent arm in their bullpen right now..

[Chappy]

It's not all good in Boston--they can't find a decent arm in their bullpen right now..

 

The easiest thing to fix.

[TheHurl]

You don't know that.

 

What we do know is that the money is there now. We can't blame ownership ever again and if AA and Beest allow the negative press that Rogers took for several years to happen again they won't be here for long.

 

Rogers took the heat, it's now management's turn if the results aren't there.

[Olerud363]

The easiest thing to fix.

 

That is what is so frustrating. Teams can win without a great bullpen.

 

I think a major league GM should spend months looking at the characteristics of great teams... concentrating on great teams in his own division. He should praise those teams and their characteristics in every press conference. Only by admiring and respecting your betters can you join them.

 

AA and Beeston never respect the Rays and Red Sox... it's always "our scouts..." blah, blah, blah, "aggressive athletes..." blah, blah, blah, "our scouts really like Bonifacio..." blah, blah, blah, "we admire the Angels" blah, blah, blah, "Arecibia looks good in jeans...", blah, blah, speed and defence up the middle, blah, blah, blah, bullpen power arms.

 

It would be nice to see AA give an intelligent respectful analysis of the red sox, mentioning their success without a bullpen, mentioning on base percentage, and mentioning how they retooled without giving up any young player of significance. And mention their relative strength at the "consultant" position (Bill James vs. Cito Gaston).

 

If AA and Beeston are to stupid or to proud to admire the red sox then they both should resign this afternoon.

[Olerud363]

Ok Beeston sign Cano.

 

Assuming he is drug free that may be all they can do...

 

I really hate Beeston. He just seems to be a delusional old guy. He's in his late 60s, rich as heck, easy life schmoozing, schmoozing, schmoozing... no real work. His only concern is aging. Age got Ted Rogers when he was just a few years older then Beeston now.

 

Beeston is probably clinically depressed about his mortality... I am sure he has completely erased the concept of aging from his mind. Dickey at 39?? Bhuerle at 35?? Bautista at 33?? EE at 31?? Reyes (short stop) at 31??

 

These guys will be splendid. At the top of their game. MVP candidates all of them. They will out play any group of 25-28 year olds on the planet. Just like the beest. The Beest will be as good in his 70s as he was in his 40s. The beest might not crack 100 but he will come damn close.

 

The Beest will be drinking champagne and winning championships for the next 30 years.

 

Nobody gets old. Math and science isn't true. We all live happily ever after. Our friends never make mistakes. Life is wonderful. The Beest doesn't live in the real world anymore.

[digiblader]

Regarding Boston--they will face a lot of questions this offseason, prospects or no prospects. They face losing their CF(Ellsbury), 1B(Napoli), C(Salty), Stephen Drew, and still need a closer, as Bailey may/may not be tendered a contract. The 2014 offseason is even messier--Pedroia's on an option year, Lester's a free agent, as are Dempster, David Ortiz among others.

 

It is unlikely Ellsbury resigns--as a Boras client, he will likely demand more than Boston's willing to pay--especially with Jackie Bradley Jr. on the way--Ellsbury will likely demand Carl Crawford money(about $15-20M). And Napoli hasn't been that great--his K's are way up and his OPS is down, and due to the lack of depth in free agency, will get significantly overpaid. Jarrod Saltalamacchia is looking at a huge raise because of his bat--he lacks behind the plane, as he is as bad or worse than JP Arencibia defensively.

 

The closer issue is a big problem--Koji Uehara won't last as a closer(injury history), and many of the free agent options this winter are lacking

[dineke]

First the 2 playoff appearances in the next 3 years and now this. Bees ton is a joke.

[Angrioter]

Xander Boegaerts will come up next year and make everyone forget about losing Ellsbury. They also have enough cash to resign Napoli, Salty, and sign a big free agent or two.

 

Pedroia's locked up cheaply through 2015, that's not a 'mess'. The Red Sox are in a great financial situation, no bad contracts and a lot of money available that hasn't yet been spent.

 

From today up to 3 years

1-O's (great core)

2-Red Sox (Money + farm)

3-Rays

4-Jays/Yanks

[digiblader]

There aren't any big free agents on the market. .

 

You also don't realize how important Ellsbury is to the Red Sox offense(55 runs, tied with Pedroia.) Jackie Bradley Jr. can't replace that(yet). Salty won't be coming back--more likely they aim for McCann, who is also a free agent. Also keep in mind Salty is not even that great of a C..who is likely going to be moved to 1B down the road.

 

Most of the free agents on the market are well past their prime(Granderson) or are mediocre, because all the big names have resigned with their own clubs. And once 2015 hits, it could be difficult for Boston--Ortiz will be 39 by then.

 

Regarding Jacoby Ellsbury--as a Boras client, he'll likely use his strong numbers in 2011-2013 to try to get a contract Boston won't be willing to pay. Remember, they got badly burned on Carl Crawford's contract.

 

And that payroll is likely to decline--Boston's attendance is down this year, and the team wants to be more like St. Louis--developing heavily from within, wanting to avoid a repeat of 2010-12, where they tried to imitate the Yankees.

[digiblader]

O's aren't #1. Remember, Bundy's out until 2015, and the ownership won't be able to afford long-term deals to guys like Chris Davis, as they can barely afford the current payroll of $92M. Until the team starts drawing 40K again, it'll be difficult to keep that team together.

 

Money is not a guarantee of success--free agency has been devalued due to the new TV deals allowing smaller teams to lock up young stars.

 

And aren't we forgetting the Rays pitching?

Edited July 10, 2013 by digiblader

[digiblader]

Free agency for 2014 is bleak:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/06/2014-mlb-free-agent-power-rankings.html

 

Regarding Ellsbury:

 

3. Jacoby Ellsbury. We're finally seeing signs of life from Ellsbury, who has a .400 OBP in 75 plate appearances since our last set of rankings was published. His 8.6% walk rate would be a career best, and if Ellsbury can continue to stay healthy and get his batting average up toward .300, he'll restore value and maybe even ignite the $100MM talk again. It's possible Ellsbury reclaims the #2 spot from Choo before the season ends.

 

He's not resigning with Boston--no way Boston will hand another $100M contract after the A-Gone/Crawford disasters.

 

And yes, it's a grim class.. it's going to be difficult for Boston to resign Ellsbury and/or Napoli due to the likely inflated prices caused by a lack of supply of decent free agents. And Choo's not needed in Boston with Nava, JBJ and Victorino there.

[Angrioter]

 

 

Buyers

[mitchf]

Hey Beeston, f*** off!

 

Seriously though, he's the worst thing to ever happen to the Blue Jays.