Beeston doesn’t regret offseason moves "If we don't win this year, we win next year"

[G-Snarls]

Is this AA interview available online anywhere???

[8D]

What positives can we take away for this write off of a season?:

-Out-f***ing-standing bullpen. Lots of depth at major + minor league lvls.

-Esmil Rogers.

-Good draft pick for sucking horribly this year. Should really TANK it the rest of the way though.

-Kawasaki's adorable nature.

 

Did I miss anything else?

[G-Snarls]

David Wells was on Satellite radio the other day - ESPN. He thinks Paul Beeston will be commissioner of MLB some day.

[8D]

He sure knows how to suck on a cigar. Better than selling cars.

 

EDIT: I probably should have posted this in the grantland thread. you can move my posts there if you please.

[Arkadium]

What positives can we take away for this write off of a season?:

-Out-f***ing-standing bullpen. Lots of depth at major + minor league lvls.

-Esmil Rogers.

-Good draft pick for sucking horribly this year. Should really TANK it the rest of the way though.

-Kawasaki's adorable nature.

 

Did I miss anything else?

 

Sorry it's too early to really qualify Rogers either way.

[frizzer1]

Assuming he is drug free that may be all they can do...

 

I really hate Beeston. He just seems to be a delusional old guy. He's in his late 60s, rich as heck, easy life schmoozing, schmoozing, schmoozing... no real work. His only . We all live happily ever after. Our friends never make mistakes. Life is wonderful. The Beest doesn't live in the real world anymore.

 

 

 

I don't think his age has anything to do with it.

Remember, Beeston was the money guy in the glory years....Gillick made all the baseball decisions....if Gillick were here and Beeston not , we would not be in this mess.

[Pete_7]

This thread title is a lie

 

We're never gonna win

[digiblader]

Imagine what it's like in New York right now.. the Yanks are in an equally bleak boat as the Jays.

[Flashman]

I really hate Beeston. He just seems to be a delusional old guy. He's in his late 60s, rich as heck, easy life schmoozing, schmoozing, schmoozing... no real work. His only concern is aging. Age got Ted Rogers when he was just a few years older then Beeston now.

 

Harsh - and then some! Is there any good reason to believe he does 'no real work'?

 

I can't say I'm very familiar with Beeston's history, but he seems to have been effective since returning. Under his watch we've seen the return of the classic uniform design, positive stadium renovations, the likelihood of grass being installed, a $120m payroll, and so forth. He is a charming man, or 'schmoozer', but that's no bad thing for an organisation's president when he's out there communicating with fellow big-hitters or the fanbase at large. And he's super-connected throughout baseball, perhaps giving the Jays leverage in all sorts of negotiations that we'll never know about. It certainly can't hurt.

[Kelly Gruber]

Harsh - and then some! Is there any good reason to believe he does 'no real work'?

 

I can't say I'm very familiar with Beeston's history, but he seems to have been effective since returning. Under his watch we've seen the return of the classic uniform design, positive stadium renovations, the likelihood of grass being installed, a $120m payroll, and so forth. He is a charming man, or 'schmoozer', but that's no bad thing for an organisation's president when he's out there communicating with fellow big-hitters or the fanbase at large. And he's super-connected throughout baseball, perhaps giving the Jays leverage in all sorts of negotiations that we'll never know about. It certainly can't hurt.

 

I don't know what Beeston's role in this was, but the move of the AAA team to Buffalo was a huge plus for this team that has taken place under his watch.

[G-Snarls]

I just called in to Mad Dog Radio to discuss the Jays and R. A. Dickey. They are set up for All Star Festivities and taking a lot of calls. Bautista was on earlier being interviewed.

 

They discussed the Dickey trade, the Blue Jays, and the AL East for several minutes after my call.

 

Steve Phillips and Adam Schein, the hosts, both think the Jays finish 2nd in the AL East this year. Wow. I doubt it but was interested to hear their opinion.

[G-Snarls]

Steve Phillips was GM or assistant GM of the Mets when Jeff Kent was traded for Cone. I threw that in there too.

 

My feeling: A World Series flag makes the loss of future stars much less painful. If the Jays don't win one in the next 2.5 years this trade will be painful for decades.

[TBJ12]

Harsh - and then some! Is there any good reason to believe he does 'no real work'?

 

I can't say I'm very familiar with Beeston's history, but he seems to have been effective since returning. Under his watch we've seen the return of the classic uniform design, positive stadium renovations, the likelihood of grass being installed, a $120m payroll, and so forth. He is a charming man, or 'schmoozer', but that's no bad thing for an organisation's president when he's out there communicating with fellow big-hitters or the fanbase at large. And he's super-connected throughout baseball, perhaps giving the Jays leverage in all sorts of negotiations that we'll never know about. It certainly can't hurt.

 

I agree with this completely. Beeston has done an amazing job of making baseball relevant again in Canada.

 

It's time to start putting the blame on the players instead of the front office, almost every player AA acquired during the off season has underperformed. My biggest beef with the FO right now is running Bonifacio out there every f***ing day.

[TheEndIsNigh]

I agree with this completely. Beeston has done an amazing job of making baseball relevant again in Canada.

 

It's time to start putting the blame on the players instead of the front office, almost every player AA acquired during the off season has underperformed. My biggest beef with the FO right now is running Bonifacio out there every f***ing day.

 

I partly agree, this really is on the players, the talent level is there. They just have not performed. The FO needs to improve on developing prospects though.

[Smokey]

It's time to start putting the blame on the players instead of the front office, almost every player AA acquired during the off season has underperformed.

 

Really?? So it's the players fault that Beeston prematurely promised 3 playoff appearances in 5 year a few off-seasons ago and then decided to go for it after a 73 win season with basically no pitching depth and holes all over the field???

[Smokey]

, this really is on the players, the talent level is there. They just have not performed.

 

Ya I really expected much more from Ramon Ortiz, Chien Ming Wang, Mike Redmond and Aaron Laffey....

[Angrioter]

- Bonifacio/Izturis starting 2B.

- JPA/Blanco C combo.

- A starting rotation with a 34-year old (Buehrle), a 38-year old (Dickey), two talented but unreliable arms (JJ, Morrow) and absolutely nothing outside the 5-man group.

- No suitable backup SS on the 40-man to cover for the oft-injured Reyes.

- No positional depth in AAA. None whatsoever.

 

But yeah, its all on the players. This power-house roster clearly should be playoff-bound.

 

Hitting coach, pitching coach and bullpen coach debut.

[TheEndIsNigh]

- Bonifacio/Izturis starting 2B.

- JPA/Blanco C combo.

- A starting rotation with a 34-year old (Buehrle), a 38-year old (Dickey), two talented but unreliable arms (JJ, Morrow) and absolutely nothing outside the 5-man group.

- No suitable backup SS on the 40-man to cover for the oft-injured Reyes.

- No positional depth in AAA. None whatsoever.

 

But yeah, its all on the players. This power-house roster clearly should be playoff-bound.

 

You will find holes on any roster, nno team has allstars at every position , and even less so when you had the injuries we had. The fact is, if JJ, Dickey, Buerhle, and the rest of the players played to their level this is a good team, this season is more ion the players the the FO IMO. Look at the yankess roster, it's a mess, yet they are winning. Players have s*** the bed.

 

Having JP as our everyday catcher is a head scratcher though. He is part of the reason for the pitchers struggles imo.

[Smokey]

- Bonifacio/Izturis starting 2B.

- JPA/Blanco C combo.

- A starting rotation with a 34-year old (Buehrle), a 38-year old (Dickey), two talented but unreliable arms (JJ, Morrow) and absolutely nothing outside the 5-man group.

- No suitable backup SS on the 40-man to cover for the oft-injured Reyes.

- No positional depth in AAA. None whatsoever.

 

But yeah, its all on the players. This power-house roster clearly should be playoff-bound.

 

It's funny how many people attacked you during the off-season for pointing out the obvious issues with the team's lack of depth. As it turns out, you were absolutely right.

[sachmo55]

You will find holes on any roster, nno team has allstars at every position , and even less so when you had the injuries we had. The fact is, if JJ, Dickey, Buerhle, and the rest of the players played to their level this is a good team, this season is more ion the players the the FO IMO. Look at the yankess roster, it's a mess, yet they are winning. Players have s*** the bed.

 

Having JP as our everyday catcher is a head scratcher though. He is part of the reason for the pitchers struggles imo.

 

You can't cover every hole, but when your team goes all in with a small window of opportunty you should have more depth than the Jays assembled

 

Its pretty telling when your first starter gets injured, and you start using guys like Ramon Ortiz and Aaron Laffey, because you basically have no one else to go to.

[Olerud363]

I agree with this completely. Beeston has done an amazing job of making baseball relevant again in Canada.

 

It's time to start putting the blame on the players instead of the front office, almost every player AA acquired during the off season has underperformed. My biggest beef with the FO right now is running Bonifacio out there every f***ing day.

 

Absolutey not. If aging didn't exist, and math didn't exist then you would be correct. Every player AA acquired during the off season has performed slightly lower then expected given what we know about aging and math.

 

1. Baseball players peak at 27... it might be 26, it might be 28, but it's not 31. Definately not 35.

 

2. Math: lots of ways to use math. But it can be used to analyze things we don't understand. We don't understand exactly why players get injured. But if you count the number of past injuries it is a good predictor of future injuries... even seemingly unrelated injuries.

 

Lawrie and Reyes are not valueable players because they will likely never stay healthy. Doubt they will ever play a combined 160 games in a season for the Jays.

 

We have a front office who basically has rejected logic, thinking, numbers, theories of human health. They only know is hair cuts, suits, hand shakes, and phoney baloney.

 

Lipstick on a pig... it's still a pig. Cool "classic" uniforms, grass, cool area to hang out in centerfield. Very temporary minimum effect on long term health of the franchise...

 

Take a look at the "new stadium" effect. Marlins had a great new stadium... way more valueble "cosmetic" addition then "grass" or "classic uniforms"... the effect has allready worn off.

 

There will be a huge, huge crash in interest and attendance no matter how much lipstick Beeston puts on the pig.

[Olerud363]

Harsh - and then some! Is there any good reason to believe he does 'no real work'?

 

I can't say I'm very familiar with Beeston's history, but he seems to have been effective since returning. Under his watch we've seen the return of the classic uniform design, positive stadium renovations, the likelihood of grass being installed, a $120m payroll, and so forth. He is a charming man, or 'schmoozer', but that's no bad thing for an organisation's president when he's out there communicating with fellow big-hitters or the fanbase at large. And he's super-connected throughout baseball, perhaps giving the Jays leverage in all sorts of negotiations that we'll never know about. It certainly can't hurt.

 

Everything Beeston has done amounts to lipstick on a pig.

 

I said this in my last reply to someone else but the ultimate lipstick on a pig is a new stadium.... when a franchise gets a new stadium it is an amazing cosmetic addition... and ussually raises interest for a couple of years. But the effect can wear off very quickly. Look at Marlins this year.

 

Grass, uniforms, buffalo, stadium renovations. Cool lipstick. But if the Jays win 70 this year and next there will be a huge crash in interest and revenue no matter how much lipstick Beeston puts on his pig.

 

Beeston is phoney baloney. The four other owners in the east all have very strong "wheeler dealer" type backgrounds. Beeston is the fat, dumb, but slightly charming town board guy who made amazing renovations to his town in 2005 using revenue from these sub prime mortgage bonds he bought.

[Flashman]

Grass, uniforms, buffalo, stadium renovations. Cool lipstick. But if the Jays win 70 this year and next there will be a huge crash in interest and revenue no matter how much lipstick Beeston puts on his pig.

 

Beeston is phoney baloney. The four other owners in the east all have very strong "wheeler dealer" type backgrounds. Beeston is the fat, dumb, but slightly charming town board guy who made amazing renovations to his town in 2005 using revenue from these sub prime mortgage bonds he bought.

 

I hate to call you on this, but the only Revlon-smeared pig appears to be your argument. It is varnished with spite and devoid of reason.

 

I'm not sure what more you can expect of a franchise president than what Beeston has already done. Delivering the winning team on the field is on the GM's shoulders; we've seen it accomplished by GMs with big wallets (Cashman) and those with small ones (Friedman).

[Terminator]

It's funny how many people attacked you during the off-season for pointing out the obvious issues with the team's lack of depth. As it turns out, you were absolutely right.

 

But at the same time even he (the most vocal of critics) admitted that the team was stacked heading in to the season. He just didn't like how we had to clear out the farm to acquire such a talented team.

[Olerud363]

I hate to call you on this, but the only Revlon-smeared pig appears to be your argument. It is varnished with spite and devoid of reason.

 

I'm not sure what more you can expect of a franchise president than what Beeston has already done. Delivering the winning team on the field is on the GM's shoulders; we've seen it accomplished by GMs with big wallets (Cashman) and those with small ones (Friedman).

 

Tell this to Theo Epstein. Go up to him. Tell him to concentrate on renovations to Wrigley and butt out of baseball operations.

[Olerud363]

But at the same time even he (the most vocal of critics) admitted that the team was stacked heading in to the season. He just didn't like how we had to clear out the farm to acquire such a talented team.

 

I know a couple of people in the New York, Boston area that called this exactly. Really just by looking at typical aging patterns.

 

The mainstream projections I saw had this as a low to mid 80s win team, out of the playoffs. The individual projections using things like Pecota weren't impressive.

 

I thought the team was stacked "if healthy" but that is the elephant in the room. It was an old declining team that had hardly any chance of being healthy.

[Flashman]

Tell this to Theo Epstein. Go up to him. Tell him to concentrate on renovations to Wrigley and butt out of baseball operations.

 

Is Epstein relevant? He took a promotion to go to the Cubs and obviously has a lot of latitude in shaping the franchise as he sees fit. That's an exceptional situation, certainly not the norm. The implication of your argument is that the president is as responsible for the on-field product as the GM is, in which case why bother having both roles?

 

If Beeston interferes with baseball decisions in the same way that Paul Godfrey was alleged to have done (e.g. the Wells contract), then yes, I could understand the criticism. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that.

[Olerud363]

I hate to call you on this, but the only Revlon-smeared pig appears to be your argument. It is varnished with spite and devoid of reason.

 

I'm not sure what more you can expect of a franchise president than what Beeston has already done. Delivering the winning team on the field is on the GM's shoulders; we've seen it accomplished by GMs with big wallets (Cashman) and those with small ones (Friedman).

 

Here is the problem. Would Beeston fire AA?? Probably not. Even if he did would he hire someone better?? My guess is he would require "veteran" presence at the GM position and hire an even worse dinasour... who knows. Maybe Cito!! (well probably not, but nothing would ever surprise me about this sick, sorry franchise).

 

Second is AA totally indepentent?? Could he of stopped the 2010 Cito goodbye tour?? Could he of fired Murphy whenever he wanted to?? I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong but just a feeling I have.

 

Finally good organizations have savy, passionate, characters... at least semi-literate on baseball matters two rungs above the GM. It goes Owner->president->GM

 

Boston has Henry, Luchino, Cherington, with Bill James as consultant. Toronto has "Rogers suits" -> Beeston, AA with Cito as consultant.

 

John Henry is a numbers genius who has read every Bill James book, and hired Bill James.... in our corner we have some nameless Rogers suits.

 

Luchino vs. Beeston -- Luchino is another super-smart numbers guy who has a say about the baseball moves.

 

Cherington vs. AA -- main difference in my mind is Cherington has mentors, AA does not.

 

Bill James vs. Cito Gaston... Jesus. Bill james vs. Cito Gaston. My god.

 

Henry/Luchino/Cherington/James vs. Rogers/Beeston/AA/Cito

 

How in gods name are we suppose to compete?? Really??

 

The only thing that can change is fire Beeston. New president with new inner circle. New GM with the same president won't make a difference.

[Flashman]

Here is the problem. Would Beeston fire AA?? Probably not. Even if he did would he hire someone better?? My guess is he would require "veteran" presence at the GM position and hire an even worse dinasour... who knows. Maybe Cito!! (well probably not, but nothing would ever surprise me about this sick, sorry franchise).

 

This is just speculation. It is baseless. AA's appointment was broadly welcomed for the first few years, the type of 'young gun' GM that you are now suggesting Beeston wouldn't hire. It doesn't add up.

 

Second is AA totally indepentent?? Could he of stopped the 2010 Cito goodbye tour?? Could he of fired Murphy whenever he wanted to?? I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong but just a feeling I have.

 

Again, it is just speculation. I don't think the Cito farewell tour mattered one bit -- the Jays weren't going to contend that year, Cito was loved by much of Toronto, and there was no harm in giving him a nod for his service.

 

Finally good organizations have savy, passionate, characters... at least semi-literate on baseball matters two rungs above the GM. It goes Owner->president->GM

 

What evidence do you have that Beeston isn't savvy or passionate? Two World Series were won under his watch.

 

Boston has Henry, Luchino, Cherington, with Bill James as consultant. Toronto has "Rogers suits" -> Beeston, AA with Cito as consultant.

 

Toronto also has the likes of top statistician Tom Tango working for the organisation, as well as hiring cutting edge coaching in the velocity training guy. I'm sure there are many others.

 

John Henry is a numbers genius who has read every Bill James book, and hired Bill James.... in our corner we have some nameless Rogers suits.

 

Because the numbers of Rogers corp aren't good?

 

Luchino vs. Beeston -- Luchino is another super-smart numbers guy who has a say about the baseball moves. Cherington vs. AA -- main difference in my mind is Cherington has mentors, AA does not. Bill James vs. Cito Gaston... Jesus. Bill james vs. Cito Gaston. My god. Henry/Luchino/Cherington/James vs. Rogers/Beeston/AA/Cito. How in gods name are we suppose to compete?? Really??

 

Gaston and James is a disingenuous comparison; try James v Tango, or any of the other in-house stat nerds the Jays likely have.

 

The only thing that can change is fire Beeston. New president with new inner circle. New GM with the same president won't make a difference.

 

You really think Andrew Friedman would be more hamstrung at the Blue Jays than he currently is at the Rays?

[G-Snarls]

It's funny how many people attacked you during the off-season for pointing out the obvious issues with the team's lack of depth. As it turns out, you were absolutely right.

 

OMG you can't tell him this. Now he'll be insufferable.

 

Cue someone saying "what do you mean "now" in 3.. 2.. 1..