Travis Snider Pirate perfomance thread

[GD]

I guess looking at it Melky does consistently show a about a .200 point difference in OPS between proven roid seasons and seasons where he (presumably) isn't on roids. Very consistent player.

 

May I ask why you're including his 2013 OPS when it's only the middle of May and is trending upwards?

[Caper]

May I ask why you're including his 2013 OPS when it's only the middle of May and is trending upwards?

 

Agreed. The Milk man is lighting it up right now.

[Olerud363]

May I ask why you're including his 2013 OPS when it's only the middle of May and is trending upwards?

 

I included it to get a taste of post roid Melky. In another post I said it was early and the trends could change.

 

But if you prefer let's use all seasons with 180+ plate appearances.

 

Melky .752 .718 .641 .752 .671 .809 .906

Snider .748 .767 .616 .697

 

Which player is more consistent??

[GD]

I included it to get a taste of post roid Melky. In another post I said it was early and the trends could change.

 

But if you prefer let's use all seasons with 180+ plate appearances.

 

Melky .752 .718 .641 .752 .671 .809 .906

Snider .748 .767 .616 .697

 

Which player is more consistent??

 

I wasn't arguing Melky's inconsistency (he's had a weird career path), I was just questioning your use of a fairly small sample.

[Olerud363]

I wasn't arguing Melky's inconsistency (he's had a weird career path), I was just questioning your use of a fairly small sample.

 

The reply was in response to a guy who was claiming Travis Snider was inconsistent, sorry my bad it should of been directed at him, or I should of explained it better. I was just trying to show that Melky is inconsistent too. When talking about consistency are 40 game samples allowed?? I think everyone inconsistent when you look at it at that level.

[Olerud363]

Agreed. The Milk man is lighting it up right now.

 

Agreed. And I hope he keeps it up. The hope is he's one of these guys like Alex Gordon, who finds himself after 25, and the steroids didn't help that much.

 

But it is funny to see people comparing Melky a guy who finally developed after a lot of struggles to Snider a guy going through the same struggles as Melky once went through.

[vdartanian]

Snider has 7 AB's vs. LHP this year......there is a reason his slash line looks better then you would expect.

 

For his career he has batted .235/.280/.378 vs. LHP with 74K's in 196 PA's (38%)

 

Maybe he can stick as a career platoon player, or LH Pitch hitter

 

If roids could ever help Snider hit LHP then I think he should give them a go.

[wilko]

I'm very thankful we traded semi useful Travis Snider for world killer Brad Lincoln

 

^This.

[Olerud363]

Snider has 7 AB's vs. LHP this year......there is a reason his slash line looks better then you would expect.

 

For his career he has batted .235/.280/.378 vs. LHP with 74K's in 196 PA's (38%)

 

Maybe he can stick as a career platoon player, or LH Pitch hitter

 

If roids could ever help Snider hit LHP then I think he should give them a go.

 

Good points. But left field could of been a Moises Sierra/Snider platoon. Or maybe get a John Gomes or something.

 

Would a platoon option involving Snider and spending 16 million on something else be better then Melky??

 

Something to keep watching...

[GD]

Good points. But left field could of been a Moises Sierra/Snider platoon. Or maybe get a John Gomes or something.

 

Would a platoon option involving Snider and spending 16 million on something else be better then Melky??

 

Something to keep watching...

 

It depends on what that something else would be.

[P2F]

Are people seriously complaining about losing a platoon OF 0.380 BABIPing his way to a 0.340 wOBA?

 

Apparently.

 

All they see is DAT AVRIDGE!

[Captain Adama]

Are people seriously complaining about losing a platoon OF 0.380 BABIPing his way to a 0.340 wOBA?

 

At a 55% groundball rate no less.

[Olerud363]

Are people seriously complaining about losing a platoon OF 0.380 BABIPing his way to a 0.340 wOBA?

 

I'm not complaining about losing the "present" version of Snider...

 

I still wouldn't be surprised if he breaks out though . Maybe he is having a little luck this year... but maybe he needs a little luck, has been dogged by slow starts, so maybe a hot start with a bit of luck will get him into a comfort zone.

 

Something to watch.

[crrr]

I'm not complaining about losing the "present" version of Snider...

 

I still wouldn't be surprised if he breaks out though . Maybe he is having a little luck this year... but maybe he needs a little luck, has been dogged by slow starts, so maybe a hot start with a bit of luck will get him into a comfort zone.

 

Something to watch.

 

He's having lots of luck though...

 

We'll see how his transition into an OBP guy works out over the long term, but his previous skill set certainly didn't give me much confidence he can turn into that type a player.

 

Looking over what he's swung at (so far this year, hard to draw real conclusions), he seems to be laying off more outside pitches, I'm not sure how to check what portion of pitches he's getting outside the zone, but I suspect we may see pitchers working more in the zone if he can remain patient.

 

Unfortunately, about a year worth of data, including a heavily skewed AAA sample suggests he's not hitting things in the zone for home runs anymore. Pitchers may simply adjust inside the zone and let him get himself out.

[CHRIS]

Are people seriously complaining about losing a platoon OF 0.380 BABIPing his way to a 0.340 wOBA?

 

Probably more to do with what we lost him for.

 

I'm still disappointed we didn't get him fulltime ABs in a Murphy/Cito-free environment. Obviously tough to know what goes on behind closed doors, but Snider seemed like a good enough guy who worked his way into being a passable emergency CF, and had periods where he showed crazy power.

 

I'm not really complaining about him not being here any more, but it seems like pretty poor (once again) asset management.

[Jimcanuck]

Well, yeah. It was poor asset management, and he was handled poorly. I just don't see the current Snider as a player that could really help this team. He's maybe a touch above replacement-level.

 

He's still young yet mate

[Olerud363]

He's still young yet mate

 

Yes. It's not unheard of to see guys put it together at 26, 27 heck even 29 like Raul Ibanez.

 

Not that it's practical to wait that long. But it's just give the guy 500 at bats, especially when you don't have anything better to do. You know, from 2009-2012 it wasn't like the Jays were so busy with their pennant races that they couldn't afford to give Snider at bats.

[Jimcanuck]

He's not that young, He's 25, has over 1100 PA under his belt, and his slash line is completely BABIP-supported despite being used in a platoon. Since arriving in Pittsburgh, he's hit for about as much power as can be expected of Maicer Izturis (check their ISO). He's just not a good player.

 

Don't agree but let's see what happens... he is defensively above average in LF and at the plate let's see what he can do with the full opportunity the Pirates seem to be giving him. That he never got in Toronto.

 

Still SSS

[Travis_Snider]

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[bzapple]

Uh oh, a DJblueray thread has made its way onto this board.

[Olerud363]

Uh oh, a DJblueray thread has made its way onto this board.

 

This is a really important thread. It's not trolling at all. There are years of history of discussion about Snider, and it has revolved around fundamental issues at the core of the Toronto Blue Jays and how they develop, evaluate and value players.

 

Snider hit a pinch hit grand slam for a very competitive Pirates team last night.

 

Today's Travis Snider triple slash - .278 .345 .417

Today''s Melky triple slash - .282 .320 .376

[oakville69]

Yes. It's not unheard of to see guys put it together at 26, 27 heck even 29 like Raul Ibanez.

 

Not that it's practical to wait that long. But it's just give the guy 500 at bats, especially when you don't have anything better to do. You know, from 2009-2012 it wasn't like the Jays were so busy with their pennant races that they couldn't afford to give Snider at bats.

 

Bingo!. The jays wasted at bats on Corey Patterson, Fred Lewis, Juan Rivera, & treated Snider like a leper. The only one of those 3 who made any money was Rivera & he was DFA'd in July 2011. Farrell promised at bats to Snider in July 2011, then they sent him down again. Very frustrating to watch. It was even more annoying when they at bats to Thames in 2012. They got more for Thames who had worse credentials in Delabar than the Jays got for Snider which was Lincoln.

[oakville69]

This is a really important thread. It's not trolling at all. There are years of history of discussion about Snider, and it has revolved around fundamental issues at the core of the Toronto Blue Jays and how they develop, evaluate and value players.

 

Snider hit a pinch hit grand slam for a very competitive Pirates team last night.

 

Today's Travis Snider triple slash - .278 .345 .417

Today''s Melky triple slash - .282 .320 .376

they haven't had great drafts so far, I know it's early, but the team is unable to develop anyone from the farm system.

 

The only regular player in the lineup is JPA & Lind. JPA has the lowest OBP of any regular catcher & Lind was dfa'd last year & no one wanted him.

 

Agreed. What is the point of having AA have the largest scouting staff in the MLB, but

[GD]

Farrell promised at bats to Snider in July 2011, then they sent him down again.

 

So we break promises to top prospects, but heaven forbid we break a promise to Henry f***ing Blanco, lol.

[TheHurl]

Agreed. What is the point of having AA have the largest scouting staff in the MLB, but

 

I think it's been realized that there is zero point to having that many area scouts and such. We all fell for it, it sounded great that no player was being overlooked. It did provide us with some late steals too...however we didn't sign them. Having so many of our 2009 to 2011 late picks move up to a first few rounds is impressive but it did nothing to help the club. With today's limits on late picks it's going to be even harder than ever to get any steal signed. And college players it's just known for late steals unless there were injury or character issues (maybe a guy somewhere who changes from pitcher to hitter). Now it's just a waste of resources and far too many opinions (just like having so many former GMs on the staff). Unless you are scouting non traditional baseball areas and finding someone that no one is even looking at, it's just not worth it to hire more scouts than anyone else.

 

Last year he moved a bunch of his scouts to professional scouting which is just stupid in today's era of stats and video, but this is what happens when you hire friends of friends, it's tough to get rid of them

[TheHurl]

The real issue with Snider is that the front office thought he was flawed in around 2011 or earlier and didn't trade him. Hearing this was my breaking point with this F.O. and realized they work around perception more than baseball knowledge. The reason that AA was so quiet for those first three years is now obvious that if he talked as much as he did last season and this off season many would realize that he's not the guy the media was selling

[Olerud363]

The real issue with Snider is that the front office thought he was flawed in around 2011 or earlier and didn't trade him. Hearing this was my breaking point with this F.O. and realized they work around perception more than baseball knowledge. The reason that AA was so quiet for those first three years is now obvious that if he talked as much as he did last season and this off season many would realize that he's not the guy the media was selling

 

Did you read or hear much about Jeff Blair's book Full Count?? I read a review on the Drunk Blue Jays site that made it sound like the book is about how AA has "saved" the franchise and brought the glory days back.

 

If current trends continue I wonder if Blair will acknowledge what has actually happened...

[GD]

Did you read or hear much about Jeff Blair's book Full Count?? I read a review on the Drunk Blue Jays site that made it sound like the book is about how AA has "saved" the franchise and brought the glory days back.

 

If current trends continue I wonder if Blair will acknowledge what has actually happened...

 

I read Stoeten's (I think is who wrote it) review on it and bought it to see how fluffy it really is. I like Blair so even if it's crap I have no problem spending a minimal amount of money (40% off lol) on it. I have to get through "100 things a Blue Jays fan should do before they die" first, though.

[Olerud363]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/books/reviews/2011-03-25-extra-2-percent-book-review.htm

 

I'm much more interested in reading this then the Jeff Blair book. But I should get them both and read them back to back for the contrast.

[G-Snarls]

International scouting seems worth it. Japan, DR, PR, Venezuela, etc.

 

Pro scouting in NA? Meh. There's TV and fangraphs.com for that.