What more could go wrong?

[crrr]

Reyes is more of a head first kind of guy. this was just a case of indecision after the fact. he should have been sliding no matter what. he was going to walk into the base and saw the ball coming and panicked. he got caught off guard.

 

Ya, what I meant to point out was whether or not this type of slide is a problem for him? I would suspect not, circumstances simply took over and we got unlucky.

[crrr]

Fair enough. Maybe it was a freak accident and meant nothing, but maybe playing like a dummy is part of the reason why he can't stay healthy.

 

Ya, I'm not actually sure of the answer to this. I prefer to sulk in the bad luck than think maybe hes just dumb, though! Hard to imagine his slides end up like that too often.

[o2cui2i]

Given these trades, the team was expecting to compete for 3 years. That's likely still what they're looking to do, and if they intend to keep building the team, they may spend again this off-season.

 

ROS will be a way better indicator of what we have than April. Let's wait and see.

 

most decisions should be put off, but they can trade away Boni any time they like and JJ has to be gone by the deadline. if they are lucky they can trade Buehrle away at the deadline too.

[crrr]

most decisions should be put off, but they can trade away Boni any time they like and JJ has to be gone by the deadline. if they are lucky they can trade Buehrle away at the deadline too.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to plan July in early May. Best to wait and see where we stand, the team has looked better lately and may have a push in them...

 

Though with the current rotation...

[CHRIS]

Fair enough. Maybe it was a freak accident and meant nothing, but maybe playing like a dummy is part of the reason why he can't stay healthy.

 

Really think it's difficult to blame Reyes on this one, seems more like a split-second decision that went poorly.

 

Assuming he did have the wherewithal to contemplate his decision, perhaps he was thinking that going in standing up was the best way to avoid injury, and then realized he wasn't going to make it. Kind of like pitchers trying to barehand a comebacker; they likely don't think it's a good idea, but instinct kicks in.

[Stangstag]

I'd get rid of everyone there except Lawrie.

 

Agree. If we are rebuilding, I want it done right. Keep Lawrie and maybe 1 legit pitcher and thats it.

[o2cui2i]

I don't think it's a good idea to plan July in early May. Best to wait and see where we stand, the team has looked better lately and may have a push in them...

 

Though with the current rotation...

 

they are not going to make a big enough push this year. JJ has to be traded if he's healthy. it would be horrible to lose him for nothing. Boni is not going to get better. he thinks he's great already. he's smokin the same s*** as JPA. wish they'd share. might make the games more bearable.

 

Buehrle needs to go because he's declining fast and his contract is ugly. a contender with a lot of injuries might be willing to take him if the jays eat a little salary.

 

jose and ed would bring a good haul at the deadline as well. all options need to be on the table at the deadline, since the jays will be 15-20 games out by then.

[crrr]

they are not going to make a big enough push this year. JJ has to be traded if he's healthy. it would be horrible to lose him for nothing. Boni is not going to get better. he thinks he's great already. he's smokin the same s*** as JPA. wish they'd share. might make the games more bearable.

 

Buehrle needs to go because he's declining fast and his contract is ugly. a contender with a lot of injuries might be willing to take him if the jays eat a little salary.

 

jose and ed would bring a good haul at the deadline as well. all options need to be on the table at the deadline, since the jays will be 15-20 games out by then.

 

-No way they trade Jose or Edwin as the deadline, even if they lose every game up to it.

-Buerhle is probably worth nothing, really doubtful they get rid of that contract

-They probably should trade JJ if they're out of it, but I dont see any reason to do that if all the get back are mid tier prospects that are sure to bust

[EdelweissBouquet]

Agree. If we are rebuilding, I want it done right. Keep Lawrie and maybe 1 legit pitcher and thats it.

 

 

I shudder at the thought of building a team around lawrie

[GeorgiaPeach]

I shudder at the thought of building a team around lawrie

 

My theory by keeping Lawrie has nothing to do with building a team around him. It has everything to do with Lawrie being young, cheap and heading towards his prime opposed to leaving his prime.

 

When you have expensive players on the tail end of or leaving their prime, they bog down the finances of having a financially flexible team, the player is not getting better production wise and is getting worse and he's a less desirable asset.

 

The problem is most fans get attached to players, even if a player once was great and is now a shell of their former self and costs a fortune. For some reason the majority of fans still love that player, because they know the player and are comfortable. Its a losing mentality if that's the mentality you have.

[GD]

Use three-way deals to acquire two young controllable pitchers (we were close to getting Latos and Gio, push a bit harder this time), and ML-ready hitting prospects. Reset your sights to 2015.

 

What Gio-level young controllable pitchers would there be that would be traded? Price is neither controllable (to an extent) nor would he be traded to us and I can't even think of anyone else.

[Nox]

What Gio-level young controllable pitchers would there be that would be traded? Price is neither controllable (to an extent) nor would he be traded to us and I can't even think of anyone else.

 

Why would Price not be traded to us? I'm sure Friedman would see it as an opportunity to rape a divisional opponent.

 

Not that we have anything that Tampa would want.

[GD]

Why would Price not be traded to us? I'm sure Friedman would see it as an opportunity to rape a divisional opponent.

 

Not that we have anything that Tampa would want.

 

Is there not that ridiculous view that division trading is a complete and utter no-go?

 

Tampa would have what we want if we traded all our assets.

 

Also, 1000 posts! GO BLUE JAYS

[GD]

We did kinda miss the boat on guys like that, frustrating. Latos, Darvish, Gio, Shields, Cahill... lots of great controllable pitchers have been available in the past two years but didn't fit in the plan, so AA had to overpay for lesser assets once he was ready.

 

The thing with controllable pitchers is you can trade them when your window is up. The Brewers got BETTER prospects when they traded Zack Greinke than when they acquired him. Cliff Lee was traded three times for similar packages. We can't ever trade Dickey or JJ for nearly the prospects we gave up.

 

Yeah, it's sorta past the point of that. If we were going to go for young pitching we'd probably have to go for guys who are almost at the MLB like ___(any Cards prospect here), Sonny Gray, Zack Wheeler, just off the top of my head.

[Nox]

Is there not that ridiculous view that division trading is a complete and utter no-go?

 

Tampa would have what we want if we traded all our assets.

 

For forward thinking front offices, I'm sure that isn't the case. So I'm guessing Tampa would be open to trading with us. But since we don't exactly fall in that category, we'd probably nix any potential deal on those grounds. Argh.

[GD]

For forward thinking front offices, I'm sure that isn't the case. So I'm guessing Tampa would be open to trading with us. But since we don't exactly fall in that category, we'd probably nix any potential deal on those grounds. Argh.

 

This FO is really depressing sometimes. Ugh.

[GD]

Right now it's not "sometimes". We're going to have to sit through another year of non-contention, and our future looks a lot worse that it did a couple months or a year ago.

 

I read today that Beeston isn't panicking and that he thinks AA will be looking for upgrades at the deadline.

 

f***.

[Nox]

I read today that Beeston isn't panicking and that he thinks AA will be looking for upgrades at the deadline.

 

f***.

 

Lol @ Beeston. Only his ignorance prevents him from panicking. It's legitimately pretty dire already.

[GD]

Lol @ Beeston. Only his ignorance prevents him from panicking. It's legitimately pretty dire already.

 

The second half of that, upgrades, REALLY pains me to read. Watch, we're gonna trade Sanchez for Morneau.

[dineke]

Welp now Bautista and Edwin are going to get hurt tonight since this thread was made.

[CHRIS]

For forward thinking front offices, I'm sure that isn't the case. So I'm guessing Tampa would be open to trading with us. But since we don't exactly fall in that category, we'd probably nix any potential deal on those grounds. Argh.

 

I'm fine with AA not trading with Friedman.

[Nox]

I'm fine with AA not trading with Friedman.

 

Indeed. Just like in poker you try to avoid marginal spots with players you can acknowledge are better than you, in baseball you should have the self awareness to do similarly. There will always be fish (Amaro, Moore, Towers et al) to engage.

[Metallijay]

He was caught off guard, hence the indecisive slide. You can't fault him for that. If the hit n run was executed correctly we wouldn't be talking about this right now. *sighs* So unfortunate.

 

Don't agree, he SHOULD not have been caught off guard, he ASSUMED the batter struck out, you should always run hard until you know 100% that the play is over, he never then did an awkward slide, it was a mental mistake.

[dineke]

A lot more apparently.

[Olerud363]

My theory by keeping Lawrie has nothing to do with building a team around him. It has everything to do with Lawrie being young, cheap and heading towards his prime opposed to leaving his prime.

 

When you have expensive players on the tail end of or leaving their prime, they bog down the finances of having a financially flexible team, the player is not getting better production wise and is getting worse and he's a less desirable asset.

 

The problem is most fans get attached to players, even if a player once was great and is now a shell of their former self and costs a fortune. For some reason the majority of fans still love that player, because they know the player and are comfortable. Its a losing mentality if that's the mentality you have.

 

This organization has to stop selling low and buying high. Need to focus on getting a group players all in their mid 20s capable of having peak years together.

 

I recall you were in favor of trading Bautista 2 years ago. That would of been selling at the high point. Good call. Not that Bautista is bad or anything now. Just that he was at a very high point in 2011.

[dineke]

One hitter today, so no-hitter tomorrow, and perfect game on Sunday.

 

Then on Monday Earthquake destroys all of Toronto

[ElNik2013]

This organization has to stop selling low and buying high. Need to focus on getting a group players all in their mid 20s capable of having peak years together.

 

I recall you were in favor of trading Bautista 2 years ago. That would of been selling at the high point. Good call. Not that Bautista is bad or anything now. Just that he was at a very high point in 2011.

 

Yeah, what happened to acquiring young, under control players? LOL. The offseason trades/disaster reek of Beeston calling Loria about making a deal to create a buzz.

 

Anyway...

[RickJay]

AA has never really stated a love of YOUNG players, so much as UNDER CONTROL, even marginal ones. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with valuing cost certainty.

 

I'm not sure we can all be that critical of the guy unless we were similarly critical before April 2. To extend the poker analogy about as far as you can, he decided to go all in with a pair of jacks, which is a decent move. It'll probably pay off, but it's not certain. But now the flop has come 4-5-6 of diamonds and everyone else is throwing more money in, so it looks 99% likely someone's got the nut flush or straight. So be it. You win some you lose some.

 

What's driving people bananas about this is

 

1. Blue Jay fans are, understandably, just fed up. Had the Jays not collapsed in 2000 and quite possibly thrown the division title away, or had they not been so unlucky in 2008, the playoffs wouldn't be a distant memory and this would be a frustrating but not enraging experience. This isn't just people angry about 13-24, it's people angry about 1994-2012. The team has had the prospects and the resources to win for twenty years and has screwed it up, year after year. The impatience is now exploding over this team blowing it.

 

2. Although the team and their apologists now deny it, the fact is the Jays DID help pump up the hype. The trades themselves were much publicized as win-now trades, the team was bragging about the moves, and the marketing campaign is triumphant in nature; the "Stadium Love" commercials are telling you "Colby Rasmus, Superstar," not "Colby Rasmus, Strikeout King." If you promise people a four-diamond-restaurant steak and instead you give them yesterday's meatloaf, of course they're going to be angry, and

 

3. The team is quite literally as dismal as one could possibly imagine. This isn't a bad team. This is a HORRIBLE team. Essentially everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong. If they were disappointing but not ludicrously bad, if there was something fun to watch, I think people would shrug their shoulders, look at the positives, and say "Meh, something good will happen soon." But this is on track to be the worst team since the expansion years, and there's nothing to see. No hitter is any good, really. The only good pitchers sit in the bullpen, either unused or pitching scoreless innings in game where the starting pitcher has already lost it or the hitters can't hit.

[ElNik2013]

2. Although the team and their apologists now deny it, the fact is the Jays DID help pump up the hype. The trades themselves were much publicized as win-now trades, the team was bragging about the moves, and the marketing campaign is triumphant in nature; the "Stadium Love" commercials are telling you "Colby Rasmus, Superstar," not "Colby Rasmus, Strikeout King." If you promise people a four-diamond-restaurant steak and instead you give them yesterday's meatloaf, of course they're going to be angry, and.

 

 

Very good post. The above quote is so true though. Rogers did some major propaganda thru Sportsnet like showing the 1992 and 1993 WS. Even at the home opener, I keep mentioning how they showed reports of the trades on teh big screen, how cheesy was that? All everyone kept saying was how this was now a WS contender, and by everyone I mean so called reporters, most of whom work for Rogers. I do remember AA trying to temper the expectations a bit by saying they hadn't done anything and things like that.

 

Anyway, season's probably over. All one can hope for now is for Buehrle and JJ to get traded and hopefully get a couple decent prospects if anything, but I get the feeling JJ will be out longer than they're letting on.

[Tuco]

Very good post. The above quote is so true though. Rogers did some major propaganda thru Sportsnet like showing the 1992 and 1993 WS. Even at the home opener, I keep mentioning how they showed reports of the trades on teh big screen, how cheesy was that? All everyone kept saying was how this was now a WS contender, and by everyone I mean so called reporters, most of whom work for Rogers. I do remember AA trying to temper the expectations a bit by saying they hadn't done anything and things like that.

 

Anyway, season's probably over. All one can hope for now is for Buehrle and JJ to get traded and hopefully get a couple decent prospects if anything, but I get the feeling JJ will be out longer than they're letting on.

 

They need to go further then that.

Even if you deal those 2 guys for specs look at how bad next years rotation is going to be (with the assumption Johnson gets traded or bolts thru free agency).

 

Dickey - One year older and is he even a legit frontline pitcher in this division and ballpark?

Morrow - Although uber talented really doesnt do both healthy and good in the same season.

Ricky - Basically a write off at this point and most likely gets sent to another team who thinks they can fix him.

Happ - Serviceable but nothing more then a #4-5 at this point

Hutchison - Intriging but coming off TJ surgery and who knows how we will perform next season

Drabek - 2 TJ's with massive control issues....hes basically a lost cause at this point

 

AA needs to make a decision this season to go further all in and trade whats left of our farm or go the other direction and trade vets like Bautista, Dickey, Buerhle, Oliver and possibly even Janssen and rebuild again. This season looks bad, but next season could actually be worse without some impactfull additions because this roster is ageing fast and the rotation looks brutal going forward as currently constructed.