Brownie19

Thank God there's another voice of reason on this topic....thank you!

If the game day preparation was s*** and actually affecting our players, don't we think a 39 year old vet like Turner would be like "WTF is this nonsense? This is wrong you dipshits" and he'd tell them exactly what information he needs to be successful and he'd tell them what his approach is? Wouldn't all vets generally know what information they personally like to receive and what works for them? Some like all kinds of info, others don't as they get overloaded. Do you guys think Donny Baseball is shoving information down Springers throat and forcing it on him? Don't we think they'd talk to Vlad about what info they gave him in 2021 and try going back to that? I just don't see why a coaching staff would insist on using the same approach over and over when the results aren't there. It can't be overly difficult to monitor and share information about what pitchers are using which pitches to you in certain counts. That is pretty f***ing basic advanced scouting. It makes no sense to me that our coaches would look at all the very basic, readily available information and go "expect a slider in this situation", when in fact, more often than not, pitchers are throwing a fastball....and even if they did - after they are wrong and see the fastball a few times, the coaches would continue to tell them to forget about the fastball - a slider is coming. Do people believe this is what's happening?

Just can help but take that victory lap eh?

Well said

Yeah - he's been thru a lot this year and obviously not at his best.

He's our version of Gabe Kapler. I just hope he's a better ball player long term.

It's funny that some bitch about how the FO doesn't show any sense of urgency and is seemingly willing to give away wins at the start of the season. Then when they take action and show a sense of urgency, they are also questioned. I guess that's what people on message boards do - question everything. I know I certainly remember what it was like when my wife was about to give birth to our first child - and for about 6+ months afterwards. I guess he wouldn't be home all the time dealing with the initial growing pains and lack of sleep, but the LAST thing I could imagine doing during that time is having success at the ML level for the first time in my life. Edit - apparently this is their 2nd kid, so the excuse of him being overwhelmed is thrown out the window.

I think we thought we'd see that he's gone on the parental leave list (or whatever it is called), so this is a bit odd. Perhaps they feel the poor kid has too much happening right now to have success at the ML level. Send him down, let him relax, become a father, refocus, gain the confidence back, tear the cover off the ball, learn to play LF better, then re-emerge for another shot in the majors. Or perhaps they just don't want Donny Baseball wearing off on the kid

I found 2021 and 2022 Lourdes to be extremely frustrating to watch. He'd go white hot for a stretch, followed by a stretch where he couldn't hit a beach ball. And his defense in LF made Teo look like Jim Edmonds. He was always someone you watched and thought "there's got to be more in there somewhere". We shouldn't be lamenting the loss of our 1.6 to 1.8 WAR LFer.

He's at 104 right now. Springer is at 83 and Bo is at 62. I would render a guess that if Vlad finishes over 130, Bo over 120 and Springer over 110 - this offense will be good enough to get into the playoffs and we might go into the playoffs with some serious offensive momentum. Perhaps this is the year we take advantage of getting "lucky" early in the season - we've weathered the storm. But if those 3 don't land above those benchmarks, we're probably f***ed.

I think Boston is nearing the end whether they win or lose on Saturday night. Pasta is great, but Marchand is 35 and nearing the end. 32 year old Charlie Coyle? Not much else besides some good goalies.

What does a "turn around" season look like for Vlad?

I feel like a broken record, but I feel like people get hung up on "media talk" too much. Reiterating your confidence in the guys in the clubhouse is "media talk 101". Sure, they could say "we need to be better", but you aren't going to get a "The leaders on this team need to step it up. They're performance is unacceptable" - which is 100% true and what some fans want (expect?) to hear. If you want players to "play for you" - they need to feel like you've got their back. If you throw them under the bus in the public - that doesn't often get results or build any trust. I 100% believe the FO and Schneider are concerned - but they aren't going to air that out in the public.

Firehouse?

I think you mean "chose to keep"

Agreed. It's amazing the impact a couple of player can have. Compare this team to the 2010 Blue Jays. That team had Jose Bautista swinging his massive dong all over the place that year. He was must watch baseball - but it was Jose and Vernon Wells that year. That was about it on offense. We had Jose Molina posting the greatest defensive season of all time before anyone knew any better (3.1 WAR in only 57 games and an 85 wRC+), Alex Gonzalez was solid (2.5 WAR), EE still sucked, Aaron Hill had a 77 wRC+ season, etc. We combined that with a really solid rotation (Romano, Marcum, Morrow, Cecil) and a mediocre bullpen. Bautista alone made the 2010 Blue Jays fun to watch.

To further support this - everyone seems to like the pitching coaches. Atkins has the ability to hire and form a great pitching coach staff, but completely s*** the bed on the hitting side (even though the offense has been elite with many of the same faces on the staff)? Some are suggesting the FO is miles behind the top FO's and we need more nerds and harvard grads and people to keep us at the top of the league in game planning and such. Do you think Pete Walker is managing a team of geniuses on the pitching side, while Donny Baseball's team is a bunch of Donkey's? That just doesn't seem to add up.

touché I wonder how much influence the players have in that decision. Some may pride themselves in being everyday players. They want to be old skool, having idolized Cal Ripken as a kid. I wonder if there are some who get all pissy and negative in the clubhouse when the team sits them to allow them to heal up or make efforts to "get the most out of them" per say.

Yeah - I agree. Bo's profile is concerning unless you think his hit tool is just so elite that he can sustain that long term, even as his bat speed declines and he moves to 2nd base. For what he'll cost - I think there's a ton of risk there.

You think they're implementing an old skool "toughen up kid and get back out there - don't be a pussy. we want every day players, who grind it out and play through injuries" philosophy when players are hurt? I mean, I guess? I'd actually expect most on here would support that approach over the new age "load management" philosophy.

LOL - good point. You guys hate Shatkins? Wait until Kenny Williams is running this team.

Agreed - hence the question mark. I'm still a firm believer that Bo will hit and that Bo is a very good baseball player, but some around here hate him. Someone also just posted his #'s since his injury late last year and they aren't pretty. Would be interesting to know if that's still affecting his mobility/flexibility/etc.

Yeah - I think that's fair. He may bail on this team soon.

I can buy into this. At some point, even if the hitting coaches have little to no impact, you cycle in a new one just for the sake of doing it and infusing a new energy. That said, I do also believe there is value in consistency within the staff. Team that cycle in a new manager year after year, new systems, new approaches, new philosophies - I think that can be detrimental in many cases (this probably applies more in football with their "systems", but I still do think it applies to baseball). I would also like to hope at in the "bro" culture, the players would also look at each other and hold themselves accountable. In my experience, coaches/managers can preach all they want, but teams really come together when they hold each other accountable for their actions. If someone's out getting loaded every night, or someone is spending the offseason crushing cheetos, coming to camp out of shape - the players need to speak up and tell them that's unacceptable and hurting the teams chances for success.

That's fair, but it's also fair to suggest that when that happens with 4 of your top prospects (Vlad, Kirk, Manoah, Pearson), plus Bo? in the span of 2-3 years that it's going to be REALLY hard to adapt and succeed like nothing happened. Tampa may be finding that out right now with McClanahan and Franco out (they're a unique case though).