Brownie19

Interesting that Barger seemingly swings at everything at the ML level. His career AAA BB% is like 14%.

If my kids team was "out" of their tournament in Pittsburgh on Saturday, we were thinking of zipping over to Cleveland to catch the Jays game Sunday before returning home. Had all my kids with me and it was a chance to knock another stadium off their bucket list. Luckily we won enough that this didn't materialize...(albeit the kids would still have loved it).

Essentially - yes. I suspect they felt that Varsho would replace LGJ's offensive, while providing a massive upgrade defensively. The only real move from offense to defense was supposed to be Teo to KK (likely with some hope that moving Springer from CF would keep him healthier). Of course in a bubble, KK was better than Teo in 2023 and wasn't much of a downgrade offensively (albeit things may have been much different if Teo was still in TO). I doubt many people would have looked at the 2022 team and said if you replace Teo with KK, that the offense would go from amazing to "stab yourself in the eye with a fork" awful. This year they bet on the core rebounding, but it isn't going to happen. Even the 1 super consistent offensive performer, Bo, decided to tank his career this year. It's been a lot of fun. Again, I get the logic. The execution sucks goats for whatever reason.

There's probably some truth in all of that (some truly bizarre decisions), although there were some obvious defensive concerns with the LGJ/Springer/Teo OF defensively, especially as they aged. Several fans were quite sick of Teo's effort and ability defensively and moving LGJ and Teo before they became FA's should also have been viewed as a way to sustainable success. I still think if you told fans they were going to go from 2nd offensively and 15th defensively to 5th-7th offensively and Top 5-10 defensively that most would have been on board with that. Despite several unexpected down years, they did almost produce that last year....but the actual runs lagged way behind the wRC+ a ton, which meant we needed that unsustainable pitching health to succeed in 2023. Again, I suspect they felt that with some predicable improvements from core players, they'd be in much better shape. It didn't materialize AT ALL and now we're all miserable and Atkins will be fired.

I sure hope the FO worries more about the results vs. how fans perceive the product they are watching. I also don't think that bailing on a sound strategy after one failed season makes sense - especially if it's to try and revert back to a strategy that they tried for 2 seasons without the desired results. I suspect they felt the offense should have been better last year and should have been a top 5-10 offense, which, coupled with a great defense and good pitching, was a good recipe for success. Obviously that hasn't worked out at all, but I can appreciate the logic. Had they known Bo would hit like Goins and that Kirk, Springer, Vlad, KK, even Jansen would take another step back offensively, I do think they would have taken a different approach this offseason. Why that happened is the real nugget to answer. The team entered the season with a 50-60% chance of making the playoffs, so it's not like this approach was projected to produce horrible results.

I didn't put words in your mouth - I literally asked you a question... The Jays were a Top 2 offense, with a middling defense (ranked 15th overall combined in 2021/22 in Def) in 2021/2022 and the results weren't there. I fully expected they though they could sacrifice "some" offense for defense and field a team with a Top 5-7 offense and a Top 5-10 defense. I think most would have supported this adjustment and felt it would lead to better results. And to be fair, that's almost what happened last year. The team's wRC+ was 7th in baseball and their def was 4th overall. The issue was the wRC+ didn't produce runs at the same rate. Whether that was RISP issues, lack of power or bad luck, the actual runs scored fell well behind some of the other offensive metrics they would use. If you're the Jays FO, they probably looked at this and said "f*** sakes - the projections and metrics suggest we're actually quite close to executing the plan. RISP success isn't consistent from year to year and if a few of our key core players rebound even a bit, there's a good chance we could be a Top 5-7 offense with a Top 5 defense. We also have several prospects in the upper minors who are close and/or ready who can fill in if we get injuries or need a boost". Obviously that's completely blown up in their faces, but I don't think it's that difficult to understand why they decided to double down for a second season (I do think the difficulty in understanding it comes from the incredible frustration of watching if fail again). Would you rather have a Top 2 offense with the 15th best defense, or a Top 5-7 offense with a Top 5 defense?

It sure is (assuming it's real). Seems like it shouldn't be legal, but I guess it is?

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Man - I was so pissed that he wasn't pitching while I was in Pittsburgh this past week (Wed-Sat). He's must seen TV right now.

First Red Lobster, now Swiss Chalet? What is this world coming to?

His ISO isn't "that" much higher than it was in A/AA the past 2 years. In his age 23 season, there's a chance he's just developing physically and adding enough power to his game to be a ML regular. It's a nice development.

What's up with Danny Jansen? What a rut he's in at the plate.

Interesting...but you do think the answer was to double down on an offensive team that was below average defensively after we missed the playoffs in 2021 and had the 2022 WC game defensive collapse? Personally, I certainly enjoy a team that hits the snot out of the ball and scores a lot of runs, but that didn't exactly produce the results we wanted either and blowing games with defensive lapses is still super frustrating. I can't say I blame the FO for trying to find some balance - it just hasn't worked out at all, as the offensive core we expected to produce simply hasn't at all.

Is jaysblue still talking about me ad nauseum? I only see some tidbits when he's quoted. What a f***ing creep. You need to let it go man. Just put me on ignore and move on with your life. You've now accused me of "going into hiding" a couple of times this year, when in fact, I'm simply on vacation (the first time I was in Punta Cana). I just returned from a week in Pittsburgh with our U14 team. Cap Classic tournament. Kids got to play on some amazing turf fields, but battled through that f***ing heat wave. It felt like 50 degrees on the turf everyday. Fun city though, took the kids to PNC for their first time and they loved it. Great memories. Taking the team to a tournament in Detroit in a few weeks - mark that in your calendar so you know why I've "disappeared" again psycho.

Wonder if that elbow strain he had in spring training is still causing issues. That, combined with the accident with his son this spring and his results this year must be a f***ing nightmare for him.

Lourdes f***ing sucks. He's a 1.5-2 WAR corner outfield. He's an overrated player who has ALWAYS been completely replaceable. IMO, he shouldn't be mentioned as someone who had any type of major impact on this team. Teo was an impact player for the Jays.

We had a 50-60% chance of making the playoffs when the season started. It's easy to just point at the results and scream that everything sucks. Especially when it fits people's initial concerns. The bullpen has been as bad, if not worse than the lineup...I don't remember the board experts voicing their concerns about that before the season.

I find it hilarious that short term FA signings are now one of the top complaints of this FO. That's literally been one of the things that Atkins has consistently gotten right in his time in Toronto. Free agency signings are a crapshoot at best and Atkins has a pretty damn good track record - but as soon as he misses on a few, he's s*** on by fans for not being perfect. Drafting, player development - s*** on that all you want. It's the reason there's was so much pressure on them to "hit" in the FA market the last couple of years. But the Jays have been in the playoffs in 3 of the past 4 years (should have been 4 for 4) on the back of Atkin's ability to bring in quality free agents (and for the team to fix them and/or get the most out of them).

What did I do? Is it my comment on the Yanks great coaching? Did I hurt your feelings connorp?

Branden Belt

It must be their incredible coaching staff. Their pitching and hitting coaches all need big fat raises.

Springer can play the role of 2023 Evan Longoria!

Ranking 2024's new MLB City Connect uniforms https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2925595 Bias, but The Score ranks the Jays city connects #2

I posted this last week, but there are LOTS of regulars who are struggling mightily (even on good teams with good managers/FO's). I don't think this is uncommon at all around baseball. I suspect the Jays will move off Turner as a starter 1st, which I think has already started to happen and will continue. I think they'll give Springer more rope. That said, I agree that this team needs to act with more urgency than someone like the Phillies needs to with Castellanos, the Yankees need to with Rizzo or the Dodgers need to with Lux. It's interesting that the reigning World Series Champions are starting guys who have sucked balls like Turner and Springer this year. Texas keeps running Leody Taveras (72 wRC+), Jonah Heim (75 wRC+), Ezequiel Duran (77 wRC+), Langford (75 wRC+) and Carter (78 wRC+) out there (plus Garcia at 89 wRC+). I understand those players are different than the old vets the Jays keep running out there, but Texas should be playing with the same sense of urgency as the Jays right now. Is Bruce Bochy now a moron like John Schneider? He was GOD last November.

Yes, I have been. I still lean that way, but I may have underestimated how bad Houston and Texas would be. I think it would be fascinating for this Jays team to somehow win the WC3 position and then go on to win 2 or 3 playoff series. A lot of fans seem to believe that playoff wins are very important when evaluating the success of the team and FO. If the Jays had gone to the WS or the ALCS in 2020, 2021 or 2022 (or even won 3-4 rounds combined over those seasons), I think most would have a drastically different view on this FO. It would be quite ironic to have them go deep into the playoffs this year, when most agree it's time for a new GM and/or a rebuild/re-tool. Then take it one step further and imagine we do it on the back of our pitching and defense and the MLB networks start talking about how the Jays built their team around the old adage that "pitching and defense wins baseball games - especially in the playoffs" and they start telling the TV audience how smart that was and how building a team around the longball doesn't fly in the playoffs and other teams take note and start following suit (as we do see copycat trends regularly). That would be f***ING HILARIOUS. I highly doubt this would happen, but man, it would be entertaining to watch that unfold.