Brownie19

I could be wrong, but I don't recall there have been many times in the past 10 days where the bullpen has been taxed and we didn't have out big guns available to close out the game (other than the big guns are hurt). I agree it seems like bizarre roster usage - I'm sure there's lots we don't know and probably a reasonable explanation - but I'm not so sure having Espino on the team the last 10 days would have had much impact. I guess they could have cut someone off the 40 man and pulled up a better arm from AAA - but it sounds like those guys are all s*** now too.

What is ironic is that Bo identified the Jay as one of the teams he wanted to be drafted by and sign with because he felt they wouldn't try to change his swing. Bo seems quite studious and hard working and obviously works with Dante a lot. It would be interesting to see how much impact the Jays coaches have on his swing and approach. I would render a guess that Bo is primarily responsible, but I could be wrong. What's interesting is Bo was actually WORSE in March/April 2022 than he was this year (and 2022 was his best year at the plate). I still think he'll hit this year.

This isn't positive sir.

God - it's so true. It's so sad!

Yep - that's baseball for you.

Probably because the alternatives are so f***ing terrible there's no point? Who are we calling up? Espino? People are upset that Schneider doesn't have Paulo Espino at his disposal to get through all these close games we play in? We already have IKF to come pitch in blowouts. I mean it is really bizarre. Have to assume they initially thought he would be back in a few days, so didn't pull the trigger, then there was a setback or it isn't healing as fast and the re-evaluation suggests it will still be just another day or two? Something like that. Can they still backdate an IL stint to the last time he pitched?

Look at the tampon twins just eating up everything you say. It's so cute. We all know this is a last place team....one that will be for the rest of this decade.

I guess. I guess add Ryu to the equation then too? I showed me logic. I think they pivoted to Berrios to "go for it" in 2021 and to get us up for more success in 2022-2026. I never liked we had to give up prospects to get him (and then pay him), but we did. It's crazy to think if we get a couple bounces late in 2021 and get into the playoffs, there's a good chance we win a couple of rounds and Atkins get a key to the city. Didn't materialize though.

You mean their hitting coach hasn't told him what their organizational hitting approach is and instantly fixed what he does at the plate? Interesting.

I fully expect Romano's value to plummet this year and for him to be a middling RP as soon as next year.

He's been pretty good for 4 straight years now. He's due to s*** the bed. Not many RPers are good for 5+ years in a row.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jeremy-pena-is-starting-out-strong-but-coming-up-short/ Interesting article. I caught this near the end... Peña quickly developed a reputation as a clutch performer during his rookie season. He hit .364 with a 198 wRC+ in high-leverage spots, and his 1.20 clutch score ranked ninth among qualified AL hitters. He was Houston’s best hitter in the playoffs, posting a 187 wRC+ en route to earning ALCS and World Series MVP honors. That said, his performance ever since is a good reminder that clutch (or un-clutch) hitting isn’t a sustainable skill. That was bad news for the Astros last year in the ALCS, when their 2022 postseason hero went ice cold, hitting .160/.192/.160 with the lowest WPA in the lineup.

That IKF signing is sure sinking the team.

That is not what's wrong with the team. If Springer is hurt, he will tell someone. He's a grown ass man. He doesn't need a trainer coming over and asking if there little baby has an ouchie.

Your timelines are a bit off. I believe the move was to trade Stro for SWR and Kay in 2019 and then use the money they would have paid Stro to sign Ryu in 2020. It looked glorious in 2020. Ryu was a stud and Stro didn't play baseball. Just think, if Pearson actually develops into a legit starting pitcher, perhaps they don't pivot and trade for Berrios in 2021... I never did like trading that haul for Berrios and then paying him FA money (even if those players traded suck), but 2021 was the f***ing year. We looked like a GREAT team, so I supported moves to "go for it". We went so hard after Berrios that we didn't have a lot left to shore up the bullpen and Brad Hand f***ed us over in 8 innings.

As of the end of the 2020 season, the core was: - Vlad (generational type hitter - Pujols and Miggy potential) - Bo (all-star SS) - Biggio (4 WAR combined in his first 159 MLB games - versatile defensively, great eye) - Teo (brokeout in 2020 and we still had 3 more years of control) - LGJ (125 and 134 wRC+ seasons in 2019/2020 and was signed to a VERY team friendly deal) - Jansen (hadn't broken out yet, but held his own behind the disk and was a very good hitter in the minors, so you expected the offense was coming) - Kirk (arrived in 2020 after tearing up the minors like very few have) - Pearson (Top 10 prospect in baseball - top of the rotation potential) - Romano (Canadian who was emerging as a force at the back end of the pen) - Merryweather (0.5 WAR in just 13 innings in 2020 - looked electric) - Manoah (11th overall pick in the 2019 draft - fast tracked to the majors) - Austin Martin (5th overall draft pick in 2020 - was projected to go 1st overall and move quickly through the minors) Then we had SWR, Kay, Groshans, Orelvis, Moreno and Hatch as all 45+ prospects. All these guys were like 27 or younger. It was a legit core. We added Ryu and Springer to supplement the core - not to form "part" of the core. We knew Springer wouldn't be great in 2024-2026, but it was reasonable to expect a couple of 4-6 WAR seasons in 2021-2023. That's it - that's what they built and it literally all became a flaming pile of s*** in the matter of 3 years.

Can you tell me who's in denial that the O's are a very good team and their future looks REALLY bright? It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out. It's all in place now, much like it seemed that way for the Jays in 2020 (albeit the O's future looks wayyyy better IMO). How many titles will they win?

Most see through how lucky we've been so far and expect it won't continue. Pitching and Offense is awful, run differential is awful. It would take an unprecedented turn around for this season to not be over at this point.

Wow - I really disagree with this. If I see someone with a f*** TRUDEAU sticker on their truck, or a couple of flags on their front lawn, I immediately think that person is a complete douchebag. And do support Trudeau? No, I do not. Do people really go "oh yeah - this guy gets it! What a cool sticker/flag"? I think that type of behavior is completely over the top and illustrates zero emotional intelligence. I guess I could look at them and assume they've given Trudeau lots of rope and while they appreciate how complicated running an entire country is, they feel the end result just isn't good enough and thus have lost faith in him. However, I've yet to meet anyone who's bought a f*** TRUDEAU sticker who can articulate anything intelligent about politics. Most just lean on something that affects them directly - like an alcohol tax and without understanding why that's in place, they get angry and outraged (because f*** everyone else). I wonder if we'll see Doctors start erecting f*** TRUDEAU flags in response to the new capital gains tax. I kind of doubt we will. Sorry for the politics. No more from me. At the root of it all - I get fans are upset and I agree that ultimately it's the FO's responsibility to deliver. I think I get frustrated because I get the impression some underestimate how difficult it is to successful execute the vision of bringing a WS champion to Toronto. There are infinite variables and lots of things that are outside of their control. Boston and Chicago both went like 100 years without a championship. It feels far to simplistic to just shift to "f*** ATKINS" when you aren't gifted a championship after 8-9 years (or after 4-5 years in some cases). If you took the very best GM in baseball and he signed in Toronto in 2016 instead of Atkins, I honestly believe there's a 80%+ chance that we still don't have a ring and would be looking to re-tool/re-build. And that's why I think f*** ATKINS stickers would be completely over the top. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.

I wonder what the numbers are on that. How many games do the Jays need to win to ensure there are enough casuals in the stands, spending money to keep the Owner happy. There are thousands of people who just come to games for the atmosphere - who don't give a s*** about baseball, but will spend lots of money as long as it's a happy place to be. What's that number - 80 wins? I do think if we keep the payroll sky high, we can probably hover around 80 wins moving forward - but, without any home grown stud players, it's going to be tough make the playoffs and do any damage in them and the real fans are probably going to get frustrated as s*** with the team. The expanded playoffs probably changes the thought process and the magic number - as I suspect their goal is to have a team that's still in contention for the playoffs in September. I think that's probably the approach they'll take. Load up on the lipstick and keep decorating that pig. However, there's a formula out there where you accept you're a 70 win team for 3-4 years, but if you slash payroll down to $100M, you ultimately make the same profit. I suspect Rogers have watched fans leave, and then return like little puppy dogs as soon as there's a new winner in Town. It's not like fans leave and then never return. They chase winners in TO.

I've never considered how the market in Baltimore may impact the market in Toronto. But now I know. Thanks Olerud.

BARF....but I completely agree. It's going to get dark people.

Trading him now is 100% the best move. If you extend him, given his age, he could turn into a pumpkin pretty quick. No need to take on that risk - assuming he isn't going to come at some discount.

Can't really argue with that BC. I do wonder - if you summarized all the GM's that have been fired over the past 10 years, how would they compare? I have a gut feeling that most wouldn't be very pretty.

I think this is spot on and why I believe a tangible change in the FO - one that would impart real change, is going to take YEARS and we're going to go into a dark time. Change is HARD. That new GM may need to clean house, change philosophies, oversee that change, etc. Then you have to hope the replacements you bring in actually deliver. What is interesting is that Tinnish and others on the drafting/development side of things have been holdovers from the AA regime. Are they just f***ing the dog now, or did they forget how to do their job? I knew Tinnish fairly well back in the day and used to chat with him a few times a year. Haven't in probably 6+ years. I'd love to see what his view is on all of this.