Brownie19

Dodgers aren't stupid Joe.

Jim - you must be getting oldtimers because this is 100% false. Bo specifically said he wanted to be drafted by the Jays because of their openness to let him continue with his unique swing. "The Toronto Blue Jays selected Bichette in the second round, with the 66th overall selection, of the 2016 Major League Baseball draft.[4] He said afterward that he turned down "about four offers" during the draft in order to go to Toronto."

I have no idea. I suspect he's very unhappy with his performance this year and with the teams performance overall. Does he look unhappy in the dugout this year? Yes, I think he does, but it's logical to suggest he may just be extreme frustration with his own play. He may be feeling like he's let his team down bigtime (which he has). Do I think he's given up and is just mailing it in, trying to force a trade out of Toronto (Vince Carter style)? I'm not sure I've seen any evidence of that. That's not really something you see in baseball very often. I haven't heard any reports that Bo isn't putting in all the hard work he typically does, or that he's out partying on the Town every night because he doesn't give a f***. Could he be frustrated with the direction of the team, which has seemingly let a good opportunity slip away (90 win team for 3-4 years)? That seems reasonable to me. But wouldn't half the team feel that way? You think Vlad, Springer, Gausman, Jansen, Berrios, etc. are super happy with the current direction of the team? Doubtful. Maybe some players hide it or suppress those feelings better. If that were the reasoning for wanting "out" then I think there would be several players who were unhappy and want out. And keep in mind that by principle, I don't put a lot of weight into what players say to the media.

You can choose to interpret whatever you want. But don't assume you're right about it. He very well could just have the view point that baseball is a business and trades are part of the sport. If he were traded, he'd accept and welcome that with a good attitude. That certainly sounds like something a professional like Bo would say. For you to interpret something - and then draw a conclusion that he needs to be traded now as it could lead to clubhouse issues is just really odd. Next, you'll probably blame the FO if they don't trade Bo before the deadline. All that will snowball out of your decision to interpret a quote. Of course there's a potential your interpretation is correct or that at some point, Bo will become unhappy in Toronto and/or become an issue in the clubhouse. If that happens, I'm sure you'll toot your own horn about how smart you are - even if these course of events could be completely unrelated.

Still curious what the #'s say. I just posted this in another thread, but I do find it odd that Judge doesn't receive ANYWHERE near the same treatment Bonds did throughout his career. Bonds was intentionally walked more in 1 season then Judge will be his entire career. I wonder if that's a reflection of the stats proving that intentionally walking someone is worse than facing them? Just a thought.

I fully expect the FO is weighing all those factors internally. Don't read into the s*** they tell the media. You also mis-quoted what Bo said.

Interesting question. I think he'd have challenged Bond's record of 73. I also find it interesting that despite running a 199 wRC+ over the past 3 seasons, Judge doesn't even remotely get treated like Bonds did. Judge has be intentionally walked 34 times over the past 3 seasons. Bonds was intentionally walked 120 times in 2004 alone! Bonds had a 3 year stretch where he was intentionally walked 249 times, which was 14% of his total PA's. Bonds had a .609 OBP with a 37.6 BB% and a 6.6 K% in 2004. Unreal stuff.

I know what you're saying, but I don't think it's overly unrealistic to see a bounce back season from Gausman and/or Berrios. You can't just exclude that as a realistic probability simply because we didn't get bounce back years from Springer, Kirk (or Varsho?) this year. I also think that people's version of a "full rebuild" may be different. I don't think selling off expiring contracts (or guys with only 1 1/2 years remaining) like Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Varsho, Green, Springer, etc. is unrealistic or a sign of a "total rebuild" - it's just a necessary move to retool/restock if the team isn't contending at the deadline in 2025. You can't afford to let those guys walk for nothing. Whether it's a "full rebuild" or not may depend on what the return for those player is. Are we getting AAA/ML ready players, or are we getting guys in the low minors who are more risk/reward moves?

They said yesterday the average OPS is like .703 (as Springer now has an above average OPS after yesterday's game). It's crazy how much offensive production has dropped across MLB. Vlad's .835 OPS puts him almost 40% better than the average hitter this year. I sure miss the offense we had during the steroid era.

I actually think there's a decent probability that things play out the way Joltin Joe has suggested. They trade all the rentals at this deadline because they do want to contend next year. As my good friend jaysblue suggested, if you squint really hard, you could see the Jays add offense (corner OFer, DH, maybe 3rd base), another SPer and some bullpen help via free agency. That coupled with bounce back years from Bo, Gausman, Berrios and hopefully some breakout years from the youngsters and there's a real possibility we can make the playoffs next year. But - there's also a real possibility that it blows up in their face again and they are big time sellers before the next deadline. Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Springer, Varsho, Green, etc. could all be moved (yes, it's unlikely they would ALL go, but they'd all be potentially on the table). That cookie of potentially contending next year, combined with ownership pressure to keep the dome full to pay for the reno's may ultimately extend our rebuild time as player value will decrease as they inch closer to free agency. That said, in some cases (like Bo and Gausman), their values may not decrease as much if they can rebound next year (v. their current value). If they do pull it together and make the playoffs again in 2025 - perhaps it's all worth it.

OldFart making random things up seems par for the course unfortunately.

I'd be curious what the %'s say about putting the tying run on first and bringing the winning run to the plate. That's historically been a baseball "no-no", but obviously with the batter being Judge, that would skew the %'s a lot (getting close to how it would have been skewed back in the day with Bonds).

I had to listen to the game on the radio today, but it was a fun game to follow!

Thanks friendo...I never knew Fangraphs added that!

What is Miller's stuff+ this year? Manoah's fell off the table last year....if he really Manoah's?

Yeah - I'm with you on that one friendo.

That's a true story. f*** that guy.

are her tits real?

That is text book public speaking. Right now could mean several things, including absolutely nothing, as "right now" is technically past as soon as you say it.

Why do you see that as a positive? I'm not sure I'm very supportive of this. I do wonder if this direction of only selling expiring contracts is simply because they want the new GM (to be named after the season) to be the one make the decisions on Gausman, Bo, Vlad, Bassitt, Berrios, etc...

The narrative that you don't like the Blue Jays FO? That's the narrative I'm trying to create? I don't think anyone needs to try and create that. I guess you may like Shapiro and hate Atkins, but Shapiro is responsible for Atkins and is the one keeping him around, so if you hate Atkins, then I'm not sure you should be super supportive of Shapiro. I mean you can like the reno's and stuff, but from a baseball perspective, you must feel Shapiro is failing Rogers and Jays fans everywhere no?

I'm going to support you for once (I'm trying new things). I suspect what you're saying is all 100% true and it's credible enough for me. But - you have to acknowledge how ridiculous that's going to sound when posted on a message board. One reads that connection and in their head it sound like it's a friend of a friend who has a cousin, who's boss plays Fortnite with a kid who's Dad was in the same room as Shapiro and the Rogers CEO. As you say - overhearing something comes with some inherent risk that they misunderstood something, or things could certainly change - but I still take it as interesting info. I'm not overly surprised, although I do think the team would be best to seriously consider trades of Bassitt, Gausman and Berrios (and Kikucci of course) if there are legit offers on the table for their services.

100% You'd have a 4th starter who sat at 87/88, struck out 5 per 9, walked 3 per 9, and threw 200 innings a year. The pitching depth and hitters were just so awful back then. The game has advanced so far.

This thread is titled "Does anyone actually trust Ross Atkins and Shapiro to be at the helm for a rebuild?" After someone posts that Shapiro is actually the one making all the decision and another post about how Larry Dolan was desperate to get rid of him and how fans hated Shapiro....you bring up a couple of critical trades that Shapiro made during his time in Cleveland and suggest "only Michael Brantley amounted to anything" and regarding the Carrasco trade say "the rest of the package was garbage". Hopefully you can you see how one might interpret that you don't think Shapiro did a good job in Cleveland and/or with those trades. I have no obsession with this front office. I have an obsession with people who only look at results to form opinions, those who can't understand probabilities and factors outside of a GM's control and who fail to see both sides of an argument. I did the exact same thing with people who complained and bitched about AA ad nauseam.

I think there were reports confirming this a few weeks ago.