Brownie19

I'm not even sure I'd call it a hanger. It wasn't a cement mixer at all. It just caught too much of the plate. That at bat was f***ing amazing. Major props to Stanton for his ability to layoff pitch after pitch after falling way behind. That was just incredible baseball - an incredible moment.

10-4 - maybe he's elite, but he's coming off a bad year. In 2021, we had Pete Walker turning water into wine and Martinez leading one of the best offenses in baseball. A few years a later and our staff are dinosaurs who are a joke. Ecker coming off a complete stinker - where the team's offense fell off a cliff and returning champs were a joke. Maybe it was an off year for him, or maybe he's falling behind. No idea how anyone knows. If he can fix the White Sox, then just put him in the HOF.

In 2023, the Rangers offense was great. 3rd in MLB. That offense fell to like 18th last year, with LOTS of down years from their stars and young players. Reminds me a lot of the Guillermo Martinez lead Jays over the past few years doesn't it? Is the difference that the team won the WS and the Jays lost in the 1st round?

David Fry is giving off some 2011 David Freese vibes man.

How do you know that Bannister and Ecker are "good" and "ahead of the curve"? What's this opinion based on? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm certainly curious how you're so firm with this opinion.

I'm ready for that. I don't really care who wins now, just give me some drama, some comebacks, some back and forth lead changes, some 1 run games. Dodgers/Mets has been blowout city. Thank god CLE/NY provided some interest last night.

The reverse jinx worked perfectly! But I mean, the LA/NY series have all been blow outs. Hopefully the Mets can mount a comeback tonight.

So far, these CS series games haven't been overly interesting/close.

That's a pretty fair point...

I'm pretty sure all the spring training facilities are used by minor league teams throughout the year. The Disney's ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex might be the best fit. Would be hilarious (and sad?) if Tampa plays out of it and attendance increases this year...

Dave Stewart? Didn't he do enough damage as a GM?

100%. The Browns trade for Watson has to be one of the worst trades in sports history (when you factor in the contract extension).

Is it fair to suggest we should be selling both Vlad, Bo, Gausman, etc. now? Fire Atkins and start the rebuild. One last hail mary to add a bunch of free agents this offseason for one more shot at a WC birth seems like a lot probability move that just isn't worth the pain of losing them for nothing, while likely hitting a landmine or two. Vlad finally has a ton of value again...what is the probability he's really a 165 wRC+ hitter who's worth a long term, $350M+ deal? Maybe 35%? Rogers should save their money, signing short term vets you can sell at the deadline for prospect and then be prepared to spend it when the contention window re-opens in 2029-2030.

I think this just a misunderstanding of what you mean by "franchise". I think you're using it to represent the entire organization and are just saying that in addition to the team, the farm system blows. Which is true. I think most of us think of franchise rating represents a more historic and long term view of the team. I think we'll suck next year and for the foreseeable future - probably until 2028 or 2029. All teams go thru cycles - we're just on the tail end of one. IMO, that doesn't mean we're a s*** franchise that is one of the worst in baseball. As an example, KC won 56 games in 2023. They've had 1 season over .500 in the past 8 years, including 4 with 65 wins or less. Their 2nd best season in the past 8 years was 74 wins - the same as the Jays this year. Are they now a "good" franchise because they have Bobby Witt and Cole Ragans and are coming off 86 win season? Are we going to suggest they're a better franchise than the Jays? f*** that s***. They've been f***ing GARBAGE since I was old enough to follow baseball. 9 season over .500 in the past 35 years. I also don't look at the St. Louis Cardinals and think they're a s*** franchise now because they've had a few down years in a row (and may be falling behind the times a bit). That franchise has been incredible over the past 30 years. I think some are just defining what they mean differently. It's gonna happen on a message board.

Did any team move into the Disney's ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Orlando after Atlanta left? It could be an option.

Oh wow - that's a tough position to be in. I can appreciate that nobody wants to dump millions into that shithole.

This could get interesting. Naylor's already got 2 hits. Based loaded, nobody out. Let's make this a game! Gutsy call to leave Cole in. We'll see if this pays off.

You absolutely can. Land Development in Ontario has TANKED this year due to several factors - most of which are outside of the developers hands. You think CEO's are getting fired because they didn't hit targets this year? Like f*** they are. Are agricultural CEO's fired when it's a dry summer, or a really wet fall and they get s***** yields? In every industry, you have to understand the factors that are in your control, which ones aren't and which ones have a ton of variance in them. Some jobs have ton, some less. I'm not saying "everything is just totally random" - but there is a f***ton of randomness in sports. Teams spend millions of dollars to try and gain small advantages. They are always trying to increase the probability of success. Sometimes they can do a ton of things right and get s*** results - that's baseball, but over time, you will see good/bad trends develop. I accept that it's easy for fans to just look at results and form judgement...But I do believe: - The playoffs has a f***ton more randomness than the 162 game season. Just get there as often as you can. - The draft has always been full of luck. Everyone sucks at it. Some may suck a hair less than others, but nobody is good at it consistently, year after year. - Being "clutch" and a hitters BA with RISP is often quite random. Very few do it well consistently.

This game is getting away from the Guardians already. Luckily Wells has a massive hole on high heat.

Man, I know you hate this idea, but randomness does play a huge component. Just because you may not understand it, or want to believe it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Here's a good one. Over the last 10 years, the A's have the 7th highest total WAR from 1st round draft picks with 29.6. Their "top" 1st round pick over the span is Matt Chapman, who has a combined 31.2 WAR. Only 5 of their 15 1st round picks in the last 10 years have reached the majors. The other 4 have combined for -1.6 WAR. The Giants combined WAR from their 1st round picks over the last 10 years is -0.1. Teams invest millions and millions of dollars in scouting annually and year after year it's proven how inconsistent the results are. Billy told us this in Moneyball. Scouts don't know - they say they know, but they don't. 24 teams passed on the best talent of our generation. Now some organizations or individuals might have a slight edge over their competitors, but that takes them from "really s*****" to "s*****".

I was just curious and didn't expect you to memorize it. My point was that if 14 teams only had 1 and the Jays had 0, then I'd suggest that's irrelevant. If there was only 2 teams with 1 and there were 14 teams with 5+, then that's obviously a different story. I just read an article from 2019 that says of the 1200 players drafted each year, less than 10% of them will ever accumulate 0.1 WAR in their career. That number looks worse because there are simply too many players drafted every year, but it's still really small. The # of players drafted who accumulate even 10 career WAR must be <3% - possibly less? Teams average 1 person per draft who has even 10 career WAR - which is considered what, an "OK MLB career"? That's someone who might be a "starter" for 2 seasons at their peak? It's not uncommon for teams to land 0 for a few years in a row, then land 3 in the next draft. That's unfortunately how random it can be. There are drafts that only produced 1 quality MLB player in the entire 1st round. The reality is teams ALL generally suck at scouting, drafting and developing. It's a f***ton of throwing s*** against the wall and hoping it sticks isn't it? Some are just slightly better than others.

That's awesome. Great for the game.

How many had 1 player?

While there's no doubt the lack of development has hurt the Jays over the past couple of season, I do wonder how typical it is for organizations to have a few "down years". It wasn't that long ago that this team was packed full of young, good talent that the FO either drafted, traded for (when they were young) and/or developed. In 2022 we had: Vlad Bo Teo Kirk Moreno Jansen Espinal (all-star) LGJ Manoah Romano Mayza Plus the prospects we dealt to add players like Berrios, Chapman, etc. To be fair - that's a pretty impressive list and nobody was complaining about our lack of development in 2022. But s*** does change quickly doesn't it? The lack of pitching has been painful. We were able to turn around a guy like Robbie Ray and make him a Cy Young winner, yet seemingly everyone else in the org has s*** the bed, including Manoah, who looked like a top of the rotation starter in 2022. I wonder how common it is for org's to go through lulls like this where nothing seems to go right. Even Cleveland right now. Bibee looks like their new stud, but Triston McKenzie fell off the face of the earth (after being great in 2022 like Manoah), Gavin Williams struggled this year, as did Logan Allen. The team who's been known for churning out great pitcher after great pitcher over the past decade is stuck starting the ghost of Alex Cobb in the ALCS (and Matt Boyd - but he's actually good). It happens to even the best (lucky for them, their pen is still incredible), as I do think things like injuries and some of the development side of things are somewhat out of their control, which can lead to peaks and valleys. The key is to avoid a long valley and unfortunately, the Jays are staring one right in the face. They are going to need to hit on some of the guys drafted over the past couple of years. Luckily, prospects/development can change pretty quickly.

Jets add Devante Adams. They are going "all in" with a pair of 7's. Then again, the AFC East looks awful with Tua hurt. The Bills are there, but they don't look great either.