Key22

Gruber82 The WhiteSox want to move several more expensive pieces like Abreu at first base. Shatikins were willing to take on a salary dump in Liriano to land two prospects for Hutch (and Liriano turned it around as well). So if the Jays were interested in Eaton - to lower our cost in prospects we might have to eat one if not two contracts(Abreu and Melky). Thus, it may not cost us one of our starting 5 - perhaps you can package a Pillar or a Travis. The problem with this is that Abreu isn't really a bad contract and Melky at $15million did have an .800OPS and was a 2.6 WAR player. If you get Eaton back AND you sign Fowler and you have Abreu you can probably live with a defensive only 2b in Barney/Goins The interesting thing is that Chicago seems to offer us a lot of our needs. Eaton can hit in center and is a lefty bat. Abreu replaces EE for vastly less money at first base and he can hit righties or lefties - no need for platoons. Melky plays left weakly but no worse than JB - another switch hitter who can hit. And Flowler in RF switch hitter. 1) Fowler (S) 2) Eaton (L) 3) Donaldson ® 4) Morales (S) 5) Abreu ® 6) Melky (S) 7) Tulo ® 8) Martin ® 9) Goins/Barney (L/R) As the saying goes you can never have too much pitching and giving up on Stroman this early isn't a great plan (see Syndergaard). We're going to be haunted by that and I really don't want a second one coming back to make us regret. On the other hand you have to give something to get something so if you make Stroman the centerpiece with Pillar and you keep Devon Travis then the 9 hole looks awesome - and if you replace Stroman by signing a Rich Hill then you're covered. Or dare I say you make it a massive EPIC blockbuster and you include Chris Sale - Bwahahaha. Then you have: To Toronto Eaton Abreu Melky Sale To Chicago Stroman Pillar Travis Alford Davis SRF Tellez Zeuch Pentacost Video game time.

So rather than 1-1 - would you try to make a multi-player deal and acquire Adam Eaton and Jose Abreu for Stroman + (Pillar or Travis) + prospects. I don't really like giving up on a Stroman - (I'd sooner trade Happ/Estrada) but I doubt they go for the older more expensive assets with less years of control. Eaton we'd have until 2021 if options are picked up. Abreu according the JPM - is getting expensive for the White Sox but he is also under control through 2020. Abreu will be less expensive that an EE and is probably about equal defensively so not suckage but not great - and is only 29. In these two players you get a lefty and a righty bat and covers two areas of need for not that much money.

The Jays offered 3 years to Cecil so it is possible they would offer three years to someone else. This would seem to open the market a little for us.

The problem with most fans is they assume that EVERYONE on the free agent market is willing to play for the Toronto Blue Jays. Some guys just don't want to. And we have no way to know which ones fall into that camp. The numbers are one thing but the Jays are trying to build a winner - and that means allocating dollars to fill several positions. AL teams need a DH - Morales should do a more than a decent job filling that need with the bat. He himself isn't enough. But the argument that we could cycle through the DH - well Boston didn't and it worked out for them. Granted Morales is no Ortiz but then who is. This team, if it wins, will win on the backs of the pitchers. Our offense was mediocre last year and we still made the playoffs - our offense as it sits right now is mediocre. Add a few more pieces - have a bunch of platoons that can allow Gibby to play the hot guy and sit guys who go into a slump is a more than decent approach.

Spanky - it appears to me they don't want to trade anyone who is any good. They also don't want to sign anyone who costs any money. AND - they don't want to give up draft picks. They could sign both Pearce and Sean Rodriguez. The former, when he actually plays, seems to be a good player. If you believe in Sean Rodriguez 2016 then you have two guys who can play multiple positions - I don't know why they call them platoons at first - Rodriguez was a better hitter than Smoak facing righties and lefties. So this is my first choice if we're bargain hunting. Fowler is kind of Reyes 2.0 - we would be going after Fowler for what AA thought we were going to get from Reyes - but the speedy guys - man once they lose the step they become overpriced boat anchors real quick. And then there is our turf to which he probably won't like. The Jays big problem is there is no pipeline of young stud talent like the seeming endless Boston outfielders. Pompey? Eesh. PS: This was the article on Markakis http://jaysjournal.com/2016/11/06/blue-jays-could-look-to-atlanta-braves-nick-markakis-for-outfield-help/ Maybe put the money into the pen and add a starter adding to a strength. We're not getting to the playoffs on offense - so may as well ride the strength of the market which is relievers and corner bats. Copy Cleveland - they did well with Rajai freaking Davis!

I am relieved we didn't sign Reddick. Trading for Markakis makes decent sense - $11 million a year for 2 years costs middling prospects. 2 years I can take. Markakis defense numbers mediocre but apparently in the running for GG - so someone sees something in his D - as good as Reddick offensively - sorta. Braves don't need him - would like to salary dump him I'm sure. Fowler a no - Shapkins won't give up drat pick.

I don't know about Saunders - that knee injury makes him look like he's 90 years old out in left field - he was pretty horrible looking defensively. He can't steal bases - basically he looks shot. His offense - yikes - .178/.282/.357 in the entire second half was abysmal Bruce was pretty weak in the second half too but still a lot better .226/.301/.462 And he's averaged 25+ homers a year and a .785OPS over the last 9 years so of the two the guy is better. Especially with gimpy Col Saunders flailing out in LF. Where was this speed and non one dimensional targets they were going to go after this off season though? They signed maybe the slowest guy in the AL not at the catching position in Morales .

One article I read is that they could trade for 32 year old Nick Markakis (2 years $11 million per left on his deal). He's a boring consistent slightly above average player - but I can't see the Jays signing anyone with draft pick compensation tied to them - he is an upgrade in right field to Jose and he doesn't cost the Jays as many years as a Josh Reddick. He also won't cost the Jays any high quality prospects. I'd like a better player but factoring in years/dollars/prospects/draft picks and the fact that he bats left and is consistent he may be a legit trade target.

Shatkins = Bad signings and results. They Shat the bed. Shapkins = great moves - we win. Pass me the napkin we devoured the competition. They ARE Riggs and Murtaugh, Starsky and Hutch, Cagney and Lacy, Garfield and Odie, Bo and Luke Duke, Dr. David Banner and the Hulk, Emma Peel and John Steed, Batman and Robin, Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor, Bert and Ernie, Han and Chewie, Waldorf and Statler, Calvin and Hobbes, They are the dynamic duo. If we win. Otherwise they're Trump/Pence.

From the predicted contracts of MLB trade rumours - Morales was likely to get a 2 year $26milllion deal. So the third year is basically $7 million. Bottom line is that at an AAV of $11 million and a second player at around $12 million AAV is two players for the price of one Edwin and for less years (plus draft pick) - this package of three is likely better than one Edwin. And basically you do the same count for JB. So four players plus 2 draft picks. And this is a team that won on the back of its pitching staff anyway. Morales may also see an uptick in his overall numbers as he did manage 30 homers playing at Kauffman. He hit 18 away and 12 at home - So I would expect him to be in the 35+ homer range and his OBP is decent enough. He hit 14 of his 30 homers in September and August. JA Happ? JB? Maybe taken him time to put it together - hahaha. Shatkins might be seeing something here.

Thanks a lot Shapiro for building an Indians team with a mere $98million payroll - 23rd in Baseball - and having it beat us rather easily. The Jays and our $140 million payroll = well Shapiro - time to go to work.

5/$100 million or 4/$88 million. We'll see. But these are the minimums it will take I think. Can Shapiro feel comfortable with that. Boston and New York can go much higher.

I don't mind his mouth or his attitude with umps - he was usually right. And I can't blame any athlete who cares THAT much and gets frustrated - it means he cares. So if he flies off the rails from time to time - fine - I'd rather that than some chump who is only interested in padding his stats - team be damned. He is an intense guy - no problem with that. When umps are calling strikes half a foot inside - I can't blame him for getting pissed. His salary demand and age are likely too high. But the Qualifying offer - you never know. Teams may not want to give up the draft pick and offer a multi-year deal. But at this point he is a DH

That's right John - teams don't typically win without star players - the odd exception. But Toronto is a playoff team (borderline perhaps) but they are doing this WITH EE!! Losing him and JB would be tough because that's two of the best three hitters on the team. And their offense stunk this year and is stinking against Cleveland - but making it worse doesn't exactly help. Atkins and company are in tough spot - the pitching is good enough to win. It carried the team all year. There are no free agent improvements. They are wasting money on Smoak, Saunders can't field or run anymore (and for the last three months also can't hit) - that knee is done. Sign EE somehow and get a lefty bat and some sort of true lead off hitter and some RISP hitters. The team needs big OBP. But from where. Hackers are great during the season but as you can see when we run into a team that can pitch and can catch we look hopeless. I know it's asking a lot to just go and get a couple of hall of fame caliber players but that's how Toronto won the first time - Hall of Famers Molitor and Alomar at the same time. And several guys who were putting up hall of fame numbers like Olerud, their starters and their back end pen arms. Perhaps I'm just frustrated that we get shut out by guys with near 4.00 ERAs. And in both games our pitchers held the opponents to numbers that should have us win. Where is EE and JD and JB and RM and TT? A lot of money doing zippo.

Contracts are also about the union's goal to drive the contracts up so that the next guy has a higher starting point - and they put pressure on the player to choose the most money and not take less because they like a city better. The Qualifying offer is $17.2 million this year. There are no big bats on the free agent market - EE is the best of them. Someone will offer at least 4 years and $88 million. Some may go five. Look at age and hitting. Ortiz (why is he retiring - he just had a monster season 1.000+ OPS is massive. The guy is 40. Someone will look at EE and say - "hey this guy should be good until at least 38" Zaun noted that Toronto has no good will here. They gave him a rather insulting 2 years offer apparently - so any home town discount will, in Zaun's opinion, be off the table. Although you never I suppose - it would probably depend on which clubs back the truck up for him. We need money to get more Altuve and Paul Molitor type hitters in my opinion - someone who can hit under pressure and who get on base and don't strike out in half their at bats. A team of hitters who don't get dominated by a bunch of mediocrities on the other team.

But the competition is Boston - they are going to replace Papi - what was Papi making in his final Year? Plus if you can see EE hitting to Papi's age? What 40 and he arguably just had one of his best seasons (over 1.000OPS)- or looking at the age of an Adrian Beltre at 37 who put up his usual monster season. It would not, therefore, be unreasonable to expect EE to be a very good player at 37-38-39-40. And if he continues to have a big post season I would not at all be surprised at $100m (5 years) who is after all 33 and not 37 or 40. A five year deal would take him to where Beltre's age is now. Perhaps the Jays can do 4 years and a vesting option or something to give them a bit of a fallback if EE falls off a cliff - but for three years he probably won't. And salaries are going way way up - $20 million in year three of his deal will likely look the same as what $13 million looks like now. And if you had EE at $13m he'd be the steal of the decade. Maybe it will take more than $20m a season. But it can't be THAT much more. Unless they think Tellez is ready or something. He hit 23 bombs in New Hampshire with a .900+ OPS. He looks to be coming pretty soon. Why the F they wasted money on Smoak is beyond me. Pay the Smoak salary add it to what you can pay EE and bring up Tellez for your big lefty power bat. Tellez probably can't be any worse than Smoak?

Buck gave the old school remark that on the road you don't use the closer unless in a save situation. Which probably has a history of making sense because if Britton comes in and goes two and then the O's get the 1 run lead - who comes into save it? Ubaldo - and he gives up three runs and you wind up losing anyway. So that's his old school approach. But like everyone says - you have to look at the do or die game and you know that Toronto is already deep into their pen - they've used Cecil, Grilli and Osuna is out and now they're into Liriano who has control issues. toronto basically used all their best bullets. So you MUST use Britton to start that inning because you know he's a guy who can probably go 2 innings of shut down ball. And with the best Toronto hitters coming up. You shut the top 6 hitters down - then you bring in Ubaldo for the bottom 3. But maybe Baltimore scores. You have to go from a progression of your best to your worst. If Britton goes three and you're forced to bring in Ubaldo and you lose fans can't really get on you. I guess I am somewhat more sympathetic to Buck in that I do sort of understand what Buck was thinking - Ubaldo had a huge second half and he did just throw a 6 2/3 inning 1 hit shutout against Toronto his last time out. The guys was pitching crazy good - so perhaps Buck was thinking pitch the hot hand and I still have Britton to close - where Ubaldo - if he had to close - might falter under that "closer pressure." Gibbons out-managed Showalter. I didn't see that coming.

Between Liriano and Feldman - it's getting pretty close to what we would have to pay EE. And I winder if just paying EE would make better sense than an iffy starter and a failed starter.

Seems like very high risk trade. We're on the hook for $13 million next year for a possible Ricky Romero 2.0. Much higher ceiling than Hutch though and two seemingly decent prospects and an apparently solid defensive catcher. I like the trade overall, but Pittsburgh is the pitcher fixer organization and obviously they felt Liriano couldn't be fixed. Giving us their 8th and 9th best prospects to take Liriano's money and receiving a AAAA pitcher in return is a concern.

Well The brass claims it won't affect the EE negotiations - yeah ok. Every GM makes good and lousy moves. Happ = good. Storen = Horrible, Smoak = meh, Grilli = Good, not signing EE = will be stupid, Ortiz was worth every dime as a DH.

Baseball is such an awesome game when you consider this team is completely NOT what anyone expected in regards to the on paper statistics that everyone relies on. We have two all-star starting pitchers - and a third, HAPP, who should probably also be on the team and should be next in line as a replacement. No one would have thought we'd have two all-stars and a third who is pitching like an all-star and none of those three are Marcus Stroman! We had a pen that projected to hold its own near the top of the league and has not been good (although much better lately). And an offense that stunk for the first 60 odd games when it should be top 2 in baseball. And who saw Saunders hitting? The board members in a panic over minor league walk totals for Sanchez. So much for the projection of the advanced statistics for minor league numbers.

It's doubtful the Jays trade Jose. For one they're the wild card team and looking beastly right now. Because Jose is a rental that means every team in baseball who is not seriously in a playoff hunt will trade nothing for him. That only leaves playoff teams who would want him. Then if you are the Jays do you really want to make one of your competitors stronger? The Jays should be in go for it mode and Jose at this point is like adding a stat bat at the deadline back to the team's roster. I am pretty sure EE is going to be an excellent bat for the next 4 years and they should be trying to extend him. Saunders too. Get a draft pick for Jose. If you can get an elite closer(OR a number 2 starter), a top 50 pitching prospect in the game, a top 100 prospect bat in a trade then I'd do it. Otherwise you try to win now.

Yes. Son plays third base. Oakland can afford to spend on this draft but not the Jays? Jays have lousy farm system and can't find anyone at all to help the system? Really?

Just remember the GM is under the guidance and control of ownership. For instance you are assuming that Shapiro didn't spend - how do you know he didn't want to spend but wasn't given the budget to do so? Toronto has somehting like double the payroll and at least double the market that Cleveland has. And Cleveland in 2016 is the team Shapiro/Atkins built and they seem to be doing quite well.

Fat is good