Key22

If we do a rebuild and you take first round picks for Jose and EE and possibly Saunders then you basically hold up the white flag. I am not against it as eventually the team would do this to rebuild but if you do it there is no point in not going all the way. You'd have to consider making a big JD trade and land premium prospects and you would have to sell very high on Happ and Estrada who have tiny contracts in relation to their numbers. And you do everything possible to unload Tulo and Martin. The reason is that you can't half arse rebuilds in the AL East - there is no point in coming in 3rd. It would be better to fire sell the team revamp prospects (hopefully finish dead last in all of baseball to land the number one overall pick). You either go all in to win now and the next couple of seasons or else finish dead last and get the number 1 pick. I hate the in between half measure BS were we get the 15th-22nd pick.

What about 3 years? If you let EE, Jose, and Saunders walk what do we do for offense in the AL East?

What will it take to resign Saunders and his .997 OPS? Age = 29 but this is first "good year" 4-5 years $12million per? Is it better to sign him before he reaches free agency, or is he just a 3 month hot streak? At this point he's a much better target than Jose Bautista.

So my question is this. The team is pretty decent - certainly a team with the chance of the playoffs. We have a solid core of starters and players like JD, Pillar, Travis, Saunders, Martin, Tulo, Goins and Barney and Carerra. Stand out defense and complimentary pieces - good fourth outfielders back up infielders, MVP - good outfield defense and up the middle defense in the top 3-4 in baseball. Add in Stroman/Happ/Estrada/Sanchez - that's a real nice four going into 2017 with at lease some positives in the bullpen. So say we let Bautista, EE, and Dickey leave. How do we remain a contending club with a pretty terrible free agent market? Do you guys think we should alter the team a little and add pitching and bolster the pen with the freed up funds? Convert to a pitching and defense style team. But will this work in the AL East? Tampa does this but it hasn't really worked. Pitching with one big hitting 3B (see a resemblance??) Without JB and EE I worry the offense will take a crushing blow since opposing teams will just walk JD all the time. Some of you know the farm system well - are there any bats ready to walk in here and actually contribute? People mentioning guys like Braun - is he someone to target and do we have anything to offer?

One concern for Storen is his fastball velocity is well down. I am not sure why at the very least the Jays don't switch the roles in the pen. Leave Storen as a mop up guy and use Floyd in the 8th as a set-up guy. The guy has been a solid pitcher throughout his career and won't get phased pitching in tough situations. Yes his arm is held together with duct tape - but he doesn't have to be the only set-up guy. Use him whenever he can be used in that role. Chavez can be the other set-up guy. Use these two in high leverage situations - Use Venditte for lefty match-ups. Hutch can't go to the pen - he needs to start in AAA and get back on track to come in here and start when Sanchez and Stroman's innings limits come into effect. Use Biagini in higher leverage situations too. Basically go with the guys who are getting people out and use them first - then go to the guys struggling. Cecil and Storen shouldn't be used in games that are within 3 runs in the 7-9 innings until they can show us they can get anyone out.

I was under the understanding that Martin injured his neck - he's been playing through it. Largely because we have no competent back up option. If this is true - then I cut the guy some slack. He was brought here for defense at the time so said the former management - they were not expecting that level of offense - if they did then dumping AA was the right move. The problem is never one guy - it's a series of failures from several guys - Tulo should not be this bad a hitter. If he's our next Aaron Hill then we're in big trouble. With an aging EE and Bautista - I think that they should start talking to other teams about these two. Tulo and Martin are untradeble ubnless we take on a terrible contract in return. The Reds and Joey Votto - terrible contract but some stellar performance. EE for three minor leaguers from someone - send all three to the Reds + two decent Jays prospects - and Tulo. Use Goins at short - Travis returns to second - Barney covers. Jays offset the cash with Tulo - Reds get 5 good prospects - Tulo's contract ends sooner. And still has potential - we get one of the 5 best bats in the NL and a Canadian - take on bad contract at the end - but by then 27 million will be what $17million looks like now - not too terrible. Votto helps solve the gap when EE leaves next season and gives us lefty bat power. Votto has been utterly terrible so far this year as well. Strike while the GM's are panicking.

For those of us who only speak and read English - what was the length of the contract the Jays offered?

Big Big arm - Ace arm. It all comes down to whether he and his trainers and coaches can get his command and control in check. If he does that there is no reason he can't be a top 20 MLB pitcher. But that's easier said than done. The league is littered with big arms that went nowhere. Still he has wipe out stuff and his fastball is excellent in terms of speed and movement. There's a lot to like. Not sure why people get on him. He's still young - still has lots of room to improve. The guy is 22 and held his own as a starter and more than that as a reliever. People expect these guys to walk in being perfect. Even Mr. Greinke looked pretty awful at 21-22. More awful than Mr. Sanchez. You can go down long lists of guys who wound up being quite good but stunk before the age of 24. And sure Minor leagues he walked people - well those are minor league umpires who maybe can't see 98mph with big movement the same way MLB umpires can see them (perhaps). maybe the minor league catchers suck at pitch framing. Maybe the mounds are crap - I mean Saunders stepped on a sprinkler sitting in the outfield WTF!!!!! Maybe Sanchez nibbles corners because the guys behind him field like the Maple Leafs play hockey. So you try and get the strike-out. In Toronto you kind of just have to keep them in the park and someone will hoover it up. If Sanchez managed to be a top of the rotation starter this year - that's a game changer (if everyone stays healthy). And if we get lucky and Floyd rebounds to be his above average self then we have a nice underrated little rotation. I have not seen the games as I live overseas but from the numbers it looks like Sanchez, Stroman, Dickey, Happ, and Floyd have all pitched reasonably well so far in spring. It's only spring but they're not getting hammered.

I'm here to make baseball great again I tell you. Folks there is a problem in baseball. People come to me all the time and tell me that there is a problem in baseball and I know it. I know it. No one knows more about baseball than I do and I know that baseball fans are suffering. They're really suffering and I want baseball to be great again. And I can make it great again because I know the right people to fix the problem. You may have never heard of them but I have a list of people who can make it great again and these people are the best. First I'm going to build a wall - that wall in Fenway is nowhere near as good as my wall. I am going to build a wall around every park. A big wall and Jose Bautista is going to pay for the walls. I'm going to make him pay for the walls. Look I know all about walls. And they're going to be really big walls - so big that Jose can't hit the ball over the walls. Jose is paying for them. In fact he's going to build the walls. And we're shipping out all the emotional players back to their countries. You're fired! How's that for emotion. No more emotions. Look I love Jose Bautista - some of my best friends flip their bats. But we have to make baseball great again. No more bat flippers. If you see those crowds supporting the bat flipping - you should assault them - don't worry I will pay your legal bills. Bat flippers and bat flipper fans are losers. They make our country worse and they make baseball worse. Look, I flipped more bats than anyone in the history of the world. No one is more of an expert on bat flipping than me. I flip my bat three times a day and I often want Ivanka to flip my bat as well if she were not my daughter. I know all about bat flipping. I have a big bat too - my bat is bigger the most - can you see my hands - I have a big solid bat and I flip sure - but this is baseball.

Yes all those never made it promising lousy bums who threw 97mph. I don't care if the guy throws underhand at 30mph if he gets the job done. Or you know there is always first round pick David Purcey and his 96mph big arm going to be an ace can't miss superstar lefty. Yeah that turned out REALLY well. Darren Oliver did okay here as I recall and he didn't exactly light up the gun. And then there was 20 game winner Jaime Moyer and his average 81.6mph fastball. If you can call it a fastball. He, as you may recall, had a pretty good - err rather excellent, career.

As has been noted there are two quality bats in free agency next year and the often injured Texiera as a third. Edwin is 32 and his comparable players are worse hitter were older and less consistent. I can't see a contract less than 5 years and $100 million getting it done. I think that there would be enough teams out there that would offer that to Edwin if he has another usual Edwin year. The Jays might be able to structure some sort of deferred payment scheme or make the last year a vesting option or something - but someone will give him 5/100. He's been something like the second best power hitter in the AL for the last 5 years or something. I can see a lot of AL interest in him. And some NL teams might be willing to put up with his 1B defense. He has no trade rights so

I just want the freemason application form - if you can't beat them join them. I can be bought.

Jay Bruce in - Jose Bautista traded soon???

easy - 2010 and 2013 Bruce averaged a 5 WAR - so every three seasons he's great - 2016 follows the statistical Jay Bruce Precedent!!

The only thing that actually matters is the MLB club and the MLB club's results. The farm is there to aid the MLB club either through trading chips to improve the MLB club or developing them into star talents. AA rebuilt the farm - traded it - then restocked the farm - then traded it. Each time moving us from near bottom to near top to near bottom to near top in a relatively short time. You trade one high end prospect so what? Next year you will draft another high end prospect. You fill in the missing bits with free agents. 3B/SS/C/CF/DH/2B/1B should be decently covered by the core in place for the next 3-5 years with what we have assuming one of EE/Bautista is resigned. Jays only really need to look at the corner OF spots and back up catchers. Rotation in terms of the front three will be here for at least 2 years leaving a couple of rotation spots and bullpen arms as the main things to be looking to cover from year to year (after the 2017 season). So they have some time to re-stock the farm (2-3 years) while they have a reasonably solid core group.

They won't sign either player - they will wait until before the trade deadline - if they're out of it they will trade both for a package of three good prospects each. Yes they have no trade 5/10 rights but both of them will ignore that because as free agents there will be no draft pick compensation attached if they are traded mid year - and for a few months (and likely being traded to any of the contenders) they will both gladly give up the right. Most playoff teams will want to add a power bat and both of them can still play somewhat respectably in the field. On one half year teams would line up to boost their offense. SO we should be able to get two pretty big hauls for them near the deadline. If Tulo rebounds and has an excellent first half - you can bet we'll be called on him as well. We could free up what $50 million on those three players - not resigning Dickey is another $12m. $62 million saved and maybe 9 mid to upper quality prospects - 2 of which might turn into 5th starters or fourth outfielders. But the point is Rogers turns the ever important profit. If we're in it we keep them and get two compensation draft picks. And we still save on Dickey's salary AND the $40-$45 million a year we would have had to spend on JB and EE. Then just replace the two with one of our premium hitting prospects ----

I don't know if it's right or not but I kind of wish the Jays were run by a single wealthy owner like Ilitch - just because it's more exciting when you have an owner who says screw the budget or common sense - let's just spend a ton and get the guy. If Illitch was this team's owner for example where we are as a team offensively we'd probably have David Price, Zimmerman as our number two with Stroman third, Upton in Left field and a payroll over $200 million. These kinds of owners don't care too much if the team itself turns a profit. We seriously need a Canadian multi-billionaire who is a huge fan of baseball and the Toronto Blue Jays to buy the team from Rogers. I'm not anti-Rogers on this stuff - I mean they spend pretty big and everything considering the dollar - but it's always going to be a number crunching game with them and they will never make a decision to put the team over the top quality wise over the bottom line. An individual owner will make the sacrifice.

I don't get this trade. Pick up $9million pitcher...countless free agent relievers for close to the same money who are just as good...or very close to being as good. Could have signed one of them. Then traded Revere for a couple of or even just one good prospect to restock the farm. Indeed, they could have signed One of the $17 million dollar starters such as Chen or the Shark or Lagos,traded Revere to offset the money and kept Hendriks for league minimum. Plus there is a PTBNL...which is probably going to make us all rage.

Bautista actually bothered to make a note that he would miss Brett Lawrie - not so with Yunel Escobar and some other people the Jays have traded away over the years. Brett's will run through a wall and that may be his problem - hockey player in a baseball field but if they calm him down a little bit and get him to relax some - he could still be a terrific player. Plus getting traded to the dumpy Oakland A's - what a terrible place to play or watch a game - has to be discouraging which could affect his numbers. Beane trades everyone - he traded Lowrie away and then traded for him back - was he traded because he's a cancer - no. Jays traded Happ and signed him back.

Ray Searage should be a contract pitcher fixer and let teams contract him for 1 month for $1m. He's getting underpaid in Pittsburgh. Go free agent Ray! I was his next door neighbour in Richmond BC when he was playing for the Vancouver Canadians - got a team signed ball from him and the team. Nice guy. I remember he told my dad he was hoping to get enough MLB games (service time) to get the pension knowing that he was a fringe MLB pitcher. Glad to see he got a good job and is being revered as a pitcher fixing guru.

I liked what JP said - especially about not being allowed to go over slot or sign international players. Forces you to bypass players in the draft and choose boring choices instead - which the GM gets blamed for - why didn't you draft this guy - well that guy would cost $1 over slot and I'm not allowed to sign him - so I have to take the boring college scrub instead. Hey this Cuban guy would be awesome - nope - can't sign him - have to pass on all of them every year. Ideally you want mega rich private owners who want to win and have some brains. Maybe Shapiro though is in a different position where he will be given more leeway and will basically serve as that rich private owner with an asterisk. Hoping for the best on that. JPR seems to agree with what the Jays have done this off-season - add several of those swing type starters and it may be good enough.

Maybe Stewart will give us his remaining top four prospects for Ben Revere, RA Dickey and Josh Thole. Since you know - they need a corner outfielder.

And it may be better to go with the guy you know. EE has also proven to be completely fine with being a DH and that's a bonus. Still you look at Davis and you get a little excited by the possible 60 home run season in our park. If you could sign Davis for 4 years then you probably say yes - but 6 is worrying. If he was more of a Jim Thome type hitter he would be fine hitting in his late 30s. It would be nice to have a lefty power bat - but if you project Smoak's numbers to 600 PA from last year he could be a 36 homer guy (18 in less than 300 last year) and for just $3.9 mill and plays a solid first base. The Jays should just sign a bunch of depth guys in the pitching department - get Kawasaki back and then two solid relievers and call it an off season. Or you know Jason Heyward would be nice too.

I wonder if 4/68 gets it done for Bautista and structure it similarly to Zobrist in that more money is put in the middle 2 years and less at the end plus overwriting his 2016 contract as well. Something like 2016 = 22 m (Gives him an immediate $8 million raise on his current contract) 2017 = 20 m 2018 = 16 m 2019 = 10 m Which would be when he would be full time DH/1B Assuming they have any interest in extending him or he has in staying with the Jays. Maybe add a vesting option for 2020 so he can retire a Blue Jay.

For me it was humans vs lizards. I was always Michael Ironside. I'm a damn speciesist.