Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2026)

[John_Havok]

12 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Ben Shulman has grown on me. I listen to a lot of the radio broadcasts, and whoever fills in for him made me realize Ben is a lot better than I originally gave him credit for. That other guy is not great.

No kidding. It's just verbal diarrhea

[Terminator]

Here's a question to ponder during the ASB.

Would you guys extend a QO to Varsho this offseason?

[Jays24]

40 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Here's a question to ponder during the ASB.

Would you guys extend a QO to Varsho this offseason?

Id trade him and let Straw play better CF defense for 1/4 of the price if we fall even more out of the playoff race.  Next 2 weeks will determine a lot imo.  

I was expecting a career high power season from Varsho to set up a big payday for him.  He can and probably will still get hot during the 2nd half.  

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Terminator said:

Here's a question to ponder during the ASB.

Would you guys extend a QO to Varsho this offseason?

If the team doesn't sell at the deadline I'd extend a qualifying offer. It wouldn't be a bad outcome for him to accept it to man center field for a single season and would buy the team an opportunity to find a long term replacement.

[Olerud363.354]

2 hours ago, Terminator said:

Here's a question to ponder during the ASB.

Would you guys extend a QO to Varsho this offseason?

2 WAR guy now with terrible batted ball data.

I guess it depends on his second half.  

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Jays24 said:

Id trade him and let Straw play better CF defense for 1/4 of the price if we fall even more out of the playoff race.  Next 2 weeks will determine a lot imo.  

I was expecting a career high power season from Varsho to set up a big payday for him.  He can and probably will still get hot during the 2nd half.  

By DRS Varsho has been far better in center field than Straw and they are approximately even by OAA. I was hoping Varsho could maintain the power gains from last season but it's like he made a conscious choice to be a more "complete" hitter and subsequently reduced his power output far too much.

[Jays24]

2 minutes ago, max silver said:

By DRS Varsho has been far better in center field than Straw and they are approximately even by OAA. I was hoping Varsho could maintain the power gains from last season but it's like he made a conscious choice to be a more "complete" hitter and subsequently reduced his power output far too much.

Honestly dont care about the numbers when im seeing every damn baserunner take extra bases because of Varsho's noodle arm (even the Ty France's of the world).  Straw is the better overall CF defensive player right now.  

Agreed on the offensive side of things as power was what set him apart from the Straw's of the world.  

[max silver]

9 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

Honestly dont care about the numbers when im seeing every damn baserunner take extra bases because of Varsho's noodle arm (even the Ty France's of the world).  Straw is the better overall CF defensive player right now.  

Agreed on the offensive side of things as power was what set him apart from the Straw's of the world.  

There are actual advanced metrics to judge defense on vs relying on eye test only which you are obviously utilizing. Straw's arm value by Statcast is worse than Varsho this season as well as Varsho is 31st percentile in arm value vs 28th percentile for Straw. There isn't a single metric that suggests Straw is anything other than a defensive downgrade compared to Varsho in center field but go ahead and continue to make these bogus claims if that makes you feel better.

				Infield / Outfield				Catching				Innings By Position
Rk.	Player	Team	Fielding Run Value	INF/OF Runs	Range	Arm	Inf. DP	Catching Runs	Framing	Throwing	Blocking	Total Innings	C	1B	2B	3B	SS	LF	CF	RF
1	Varsho, Daulton		2	2	3	-1	--	--	--	--	--	649	--	--	--	--	--	--	649	--
2	Lukes, Nathan		1	1	0	0	--	--	--	--	--	59	--	--	--	--	--	--	59	--
3	Straw, Myles		0	0	1	-1	--	--	--	--	--	140	--	--	--	--	--	--	140	--

[G-Snarls]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

By DRS Varsho has been far better in center field than Straw and they are approximately even by OAA. I was hoping Varsho could maintain the power gains from last season but it's like he made a conscious choice to be a more "complete" hitter and subsequently reduced his power output far too much.

And how do we think Clase fits in?

His defense looks excellent 

[Olerud363.354]

23 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

And how do we think Clase fits in?

His defense looks excellent 

Clase is .257 .349 .433 minors, .230 .302 .345 majors projected about that .230 .290 .350 or so

Straw is ..293 .380 .370 minors, .246 .314 .317 majors, projected .230 .295 .320 or so

Varsho is .296 .365 .519 minors .228 .297 .435 majors projected .230 .295 .410 or so. 

Varsho still projects best.  Not sure about defense.  Clase is fast I think. 

 

[G-Snarls]

3 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Clase is .257 .349 .433 minors, .230 .302 .345 majors projected about that .230 .290 .350 or so

Straw is ..293 .380 .370 minors, .246 .314 .317 majors, projected .230 .295 .320 or so

Varsho is .296 .365 .519 minors .228 .297 .435 majors projected .230 .295 .410 or so. 

Varsho still projects best.  Not sure about defense.  Clase is fast I think. 

 

If they're not playing for anything they should give Clase lots of playing time in August/September

Seems to have speed, instructs and some power.  But may not on base enough. 

[Olerud363.354]

9 minutes ago, G-Snarls said:

Seems to have speed, instructs and some power.  But may not on base enough. 

He's already projected to have the same on base as Varsho and Straw.  Though point still valid.  Carrying full time players with a .290 on base percentage isn't ideal. 

Be fun to see him play for the rest of the year.   I feel like rule of thumb is minor league stats are a ceiling.  Like he's not going to have a .400 on base percentage, but maybe it could be .335 if he reaches his positive projection. 

[hanton]

13 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

They explained it on the broadcast.  He declared he was going from the wind-up for the previous batter, but didn't for Merrill. Apparently you have to declare each batter?  I don't think she was wrong.

Gausman used the wind-up for this game for the first times in years, so he's not used to having to do it...

I'd have to check on the rule but it would be common to go from the wind-up with the bases loaded

[hanton]

7 hours ago, Terminator said:

Here's a question to ponder during the ASB.

Would you guys extend a QO to Varsho this offseason?

definitely give it some thought, next to ss having elite dee in CF should be a priority, his offensive stats do suck though but I don't care that much; bat him 9th.  Alternately Straw can be had for less.  CF market isn't great so there's that

 

 

[jaysblue]

So there’s a real chance Varsho could be gone after this season. It honestly feels like we acquired him yesterday in that trade with Arizona.

So far, Varsho has accumulated 8.4 WAR over his four seasons here. He’s been a solid player and has brought real value with his defense, baserunning, and stretches of power, but he never quite became the 4–5 WAR, 30-HR bat that a lot of people hoped he could be when the Jays acquired him.

Meanwhile, Gabriel Moreno is having a career year with the D-backs, posting 2.5 WAR in 69 games with a .301/.385/.436 slash line and a 129 wRC+, while still being under control through 2029. Since the trade, Moreno has totaled 10 WAR.

I like Varsho, and I don’t think he’s been a bad player here by any means. But yeah, it’s hard to look at this now and say the Jays clearly ran away with the deal the way some people were claiming a couple years ago.

At this point, it feels more like a wash than anything. Varsho has helped the Jays, Moreno has become a very valuable catcher in Arizona, and both teams got useful players. But if Varsho leaves after this season, that trade is going to look a lot more complicated in hindsight.

 

[Laika]

3 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

 

I like Varsho, and I don’t think he’s been a bad player here by any means. But yeah, it’s hard to look at this now and say the Jays clearly ran away with the deal the way some people were claiming a couple years ago.

Narrator: Nobody claimed this 

[jaysblue]

Just now, Laika said:

Narrator: Nobody claimed this 

You probably did but I can't keep track since you flip flop all the time on everything. 

[Laika]

No, it just never happened. If anyone ever said something similar to that they were being facetious or joking. 

People were worried Moreno would become a superstar since he was arguably the #1 prospect in baseball, for a blip in time when other elite prospects had graduated and stuff. 

Everyone knew it was a risky trade and Toronto was not likely to "win" it on paper unless Moreno outright busted. 

Any ostensible celebration about Moreno's flaws was just toxic fandom being happy that Toronto did not actually trade some kind of franchise superstar for Daulton Varsho. Or more about Kirk vs. Moreno, which has nothing to do with analyzing the trade in a nutshell but everything to do with Toronto's justification for doing the trade.

Varsho leaving does not really change anything. Should Toronto even want him into his 30s? 

I don't understand why you feel the need to insert a historic lie into posts like this. You do it all the time. 

Everyone used to say that you have six toes and now I believe them 

[Terminator]

Just now, Laika said:

No, it just never happened. If anyone ever said something similar to that they were being facetious or joking. 

People were worried Moreno would become a superstar since he was arguably the #1 prospect in baseball, for a blip in time when other elite prospects had graduated and stuff. 

Everyone knew it was a risky trade and Toronto was not likely to "win" it on paper unless Moreno outright busted. 

Any ostensible celebration about Moreno's flaws was just toxic fandom being happy that Toronto did not actually trade some kind of franchise superstar for Daulton Varsho. Or more about Kirk vs. Moreno, which has nothing to do with analyzing the trade in a nutshell but everything to do with Toronto's justification for doing the trade.

Varsho leaving does not really change anything. Should Toronto even want him into his 30s? 

I don't understand why you feel the need to insert a historic lie into posts like this. You do it all the time. 

Everyone used to say that you have six toes and now I believe them 

Who would do such a thing?? Don't they have anything better to do than wage an online crusade over which catcher is better? 

[glory]

Trading for an outfielder with 4 years of control left, whose most attractive skill is elite CF defense, and putting him in LF for half of those years of control was borderline insane. I guess you could look past it in 2023 since KK was signed before the trade, so there was no way of them knowing they'd have Varsho before signing KK, but that wasn't the case in 2024 when they did the same damn thing again. 

If the Jays are out of it, then trade Varsho. If they are still in it, then hold on to him and let him sign an albatross contract with someone else. I want no part of this dude in his 30's on a long term deal. They got the best remaining years out of him (defensively and on the bases). Move on. In hindsight, I think the trade was more than justifiable. They made the playoffs in 2 of his first 3 years of control, and should have a ring. You make that move again in a second, except you actually play him in CF. 

[Brownie19]

48 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

You probably did but I can't keep track since you flip flop all the time on everything. 

Nobody claimed it was a landslide win. It was a good trade for both teams.

You have to consider timing and need too when evaluating it. Jays were ready to compete, they had depth at catcher and needed a CFer.  Varsho was more developed and was ready to contribute when they got him.  It fit their timeline.  Moreno was a rookie catcher. They typically take time to develop and reach their peak - and the Jays still had Jansen as the established catcher, along with Kirk as the up and coming future catcher.

It all worked out about as good as the Jays could have expected.  Kirk's been as good, if not better than Moreno during the same period.  

Did we get as much out of Varsho was we hoped? No, probably not, but he's been a rock in CF, he filled the need and has been a good player.

I think your memory may be a little foggy.  Most fans were losing their minds that we got killed in the trade and that Atkins should be fired.  I remember defending the move countless times, taking shots from the regular dopes about it.  It was a good baseball trade that helped both teams. 

[jaysblue]

[jaysblue]

3 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Nobody claimed it was a landslide win. It was a good trade for both teams.

You have to consider timing and need too when evaluating it. Jays were ready to compete, they had depth at catcher and needed a CFer.  Varsho was more developed and was ready to contribute when they got him.  It fit their timeline.  Moreno was a rookie catcher. They typically take time to develop and reach their peak - and the Jays still had Jansen as the established catcher, along with Kirk as the up and coming future catcher.

It all worked out about as good as the Jays could have expected.  Kirk's been as good, if not better than Moreno during the same period.  

Did we get as much out of Varsho was we hoped? No, probably not, but he's been a rock in CF, he filled the need and has been a good player.

I think your memory may be a little foggy.  Most fans were losing their minds that we got killed in the trade and that Atkins should be fired.  I remember defending the move countless times, taking shots from the regular dopes about it.  It was a good baseball trade that helped both teams. 

I agree it made sense from a timing/need perspective at the time. The Jays were trying to win, they had catcher depth, and Varsho filled a real need in CF/LF with elite defense and some power.

My point is more about how the trade looks now compared to how confidently some people framed it a couple years ago. Maybe “landslide” is too strong, but there were definitely fans acting like the Jays clearly won the deal once Varsho settled in and Moreno wasn’t immediately an offensive monster.

Varsho has been a good player here. No argument. But he also hasn’t quite become the 4–5 WAR, 30-HR impact bat many hoped for. And now, if he’s potentially gone after this season, that changes the long-term value discussion quite a bit.

Moreno, meanwhile, is still under control through 2029 and is having a career year at a premium position. Kirk being good doesn’t completely erase that, because Moreno himself was still a major asset. You kind of wish the Jays could have got more for him at the end of the day, but understandable. 

So yeah, I agree it wasn’t a disaster and it helped both teams. But I don’t think it worked out “about as good as the Jays could have expected” either. To me, it feels more like a fair baseball trade/wash than some clear Jays win.

[jaysblue]

On 7/13/2026 at 11:54 AM, Terminator said:

Here's a question to ponder during the ASB.

Would you guys extend a QO to Varsho this offseason?

Probably not. Given the season he’s had so far, and with his defense slipping a bit, I don’t see a team handing him a big 4- or 5-year deal this offseason unless he has a huge second half.

I’d be open to bringing him back on a one-year deal to buy the Jays more time to find a long-term solution in CF. But I wouldn’t want to pay him around $22M if he accepts the QO. If they could bring him back closer to the $15M range, I think that would be much more reasonable.

At that price, he still gives you value with his defense, athleticism, and occasional power, without locking yourself into a risky long-term commitment.

[max silver]

2 hours ago, jaysblue said:

So there’s a real chance Varsho could be gone after this season. It honestly feels like we acquired him yesterday in that trade with Arizona.

So far, Varsho has accumulated 8.4 WAR over his four seasons here. He’s been a solid player and has brought real value with his defense, baserunning, and stretches of power, but he never quite became the 4–5 WAR, 30-HR bat that a lot of people hoped he could be when the Jays acquired him.

Meanwhile, Gabriel Moreno is having a career year with the D-backs, posting 2.5 WAR in 69 games with a .301/.385/.436 slash line and a 129 wRC+, while still being under control through 2029. Since the trade, Moreno has totaled 10 WAR.

I like Varsho, and I don’t think he’s been a bad player here by any means. But yeah, it’s hard to look at this now and say the Jays clearly ran away with the deal the way some people were claiming a couple years ago.

At this point, it feels more like a wash than anything. Varsho has helped the Jays, Moreno has become a very valuable catcher in Arizona, and both teams got useful players. But if Varsho leaves after this season, that trade is going to look a lot more complicated in hindsight.

 

When on earth did you see literally anyone anywhere making this claim? I'm calling shenanigans on another generic weaksauce strawman argument. I saw plenty of fans online stating how this was one of the worst trades of franchise history based on the Diamondbacks making it to the world series in season one but don't recall anyone anywhere ever claiming this trade was some sort of steal for the Blue Jays.

[Terminator]

1 hour ago, jaysblue said:

Probably not. Given the season he’s had so far, and with his defense slipping a bit, I don’t see a team handing him a big 4- or 5-year deal this offseason unless he has a huge second half.

I’d be open to bringing him back on a one-year deal to buy the Jays more time to find a long-term solution in CF. But I wouldn’t want to pay him around $22M if he accepts the QO. If they could bring him back closer to the $15M range, I think that would be much more reasonable.

At that price, he still gives you value with his defense, athleticism, and occasional power, without locking yourself into a risky long-term commitment.

I don't think he's going to sign a 1 year deal for 15 million. He might not even agree to the QO as Boras usually prefers to roll the dice.

And I'm not sure the team cares that much about 7 million bucks anyway. So I get your reasoning but disagree on the conclusion as if you're willing to go to 15 mil, the extra 7 mil is probably worth it to either lock in a starting caliber CF for another year or gain a draft pick.

[Laika]

There are not many good recent comps for a Varsho FA

Players tend to reach FA in one of these buckets:

1. Can still really hit but is not actually a CF anymore. Nimmo, Bellinger, O'Neill, Springer, etc. They tend to get paid unless they are terrible defensively. 
2. Is still a real CF but the offense is quite questionable. Bader, Kiermaier, Jackie Bradley, etc.
3. All skills seem to be in decline. Can sort of hit and sort of play defense. Mullins. 

Before 2026 you would not have thought about comping Mullins and Varsho, but if you focus on just the 2026 stats for Daulton it's uncomfortable close. He's really f***ing himself and his free agency case by not hitting for power. 

He's going to enter free agency with maybe a 100 wRC+, 2.6 fWAR projection. Something like that. 

Not sure anyone is backing up the truck for someone who might have a 90 wRC+ over the life of his FA contract. 

He actually might just sign on Februrary 27th for $15M or so like butthead says. 

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, jaysblue said:

So yeah, I agree it wasn’t a disaster and it helped both teams. But I don’t think it worked out “about as good as the Jays could have expected” either. To me, it feels more like a fair baseball trade/wash than some clear Jays win.

When I say it worked out about as good as you could have expected, I mean that Kirk became a stud, Moreno didn't become a superstar and Varsho was a good player.

A lot of things could have gone differently, which would have changed how this trade was viewed.

Obviously Kirk becoming Mike Piazza, Varsho could have turned into Griffey Jr and Moreno could have been out of the league by now.   That would have been the "best case scenario".

[Terminator]

Yeah there aren't great comps for Varsho. Defense was elite, but is probably now merely above average. But it is a premium position and the bat is about league average. Jaysblue is right that the 4 or 5 year deal is gone unless he goes nuts the 2nd half.

These guys had worse track records but were coming off of a better year:

• Harrison Bader got 2 years, 20.5 mil
• Grisham accepted the QO

Also, not many CF options in FA (or in MLB altogether really) which could help him. Grisham is probably the only other guy you would consider a starter.

QO seems like it could be the right fit for him tbh.

 

[Laika]

1 minute ago, Terminator said:

Yeah there aren't great comps for Varsho. Defense was elite, but is probably now merely above average. But it is a premium position and the bat is about league average. Jaysblue is right that the 4 or 5 year deal is gone unless he goes nuts the 2nd half.

These guys had worse track records but were coming off of a better year:

• Harrison Bader got 2 years, 20.5 mil
• Grisham accepted the QO

Also, not many CF options in FA (or in MLB altogether really) which could help him. Grisham is probably the only other guy you would consider a starter.

QO seems like it could be the right fit for him tbh.

 

I guess if two teams have a CF black hole he could leverage that into a tidy 5 year deal

We will see! 

I am not super interested. Sadly, Toronto seems to be one of the teams with no CF anywhere on the depth chart until you get down to Low A.