[ALCS GM 5] Blue Jays (Gausman) vs Mariners (Miller): 10/17/25, 6:08pm

[Jimcanuck]

Some of ya are completely missing the real issue.  Which is bringing in Seranthony and Hoffman in a very low leverage situation in game 4 the night before.

Use Little then, or Bassitt, whoever.

Then its a fresh Hoffman and Seranthony for game 5 (and the M's had had no recent "looks" at these guys).

[SeranthonySantander]

I'd assume Hoffman was going to be used in the 9th if Little got out of the inning.  I don't think it was a matter of him being unavailable

[Brownie19]

16 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Yup I recall that during the game. They came on after the 7th and Siddall said you got to go with your two best pen options for the 8th and 9th inning and that was either Dominguez and Hoffman, whichever order you use them. 

Madison Shipman even said the Jays need to pad onto their run total. She even knows its tough for this team to close out 2-1 games.

Wow - great work by Madison Shipman.  She probably deserves a raise for suggesting the team needs to score more runs in a 2-1 game.  Not much gets past her.

Is Hoffman actually one of our top 2 arms?  I'm not sure he is.  Hoffman has been as awful as Little for months now.

[hanton]

2024 bullpen was 30th in the league in fWAR

2025 18th (20th after the TDL!!)

I think we're lucky to be where we are with this bullpen - the bats have carried the team.   It's been an issue for a while, just not enough arms to go around (via trade, FA or homegrown).   Develop more pitching.

[Big_Walleye]

13 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Some of ya are completely missing the real issue.  Which is bringing in Seranthony and Hoffman in a very low leverage situation in game 4 the night before.

Use Little then, or Bassitt, whoever.

Then its a fresh Hoffman and Seranthony for game 5 (and the M's had had no recent "looks" at these guys).

How is this the "real issue"? Leverage relievers pitch 2 days in a row all the time.  Even our "expert" broadcasters said they liked the decision to step on their throat in that game.

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Flip flopper!

He does make a point though.  Some are acting like Dominguez and Hoffman are Ward and Henke - and they aren't.  They both have their flaws.

I wonder how much he considered Fisher there.

[Angrioter]

What was/is the role of Bassitt and Lauer in this series?

[glory]

I think two things can be right in this case. 

1. Little was a bad decision.

2. The Jays could have still lost the game had they gone to Hoffman/Dominguez since neither of those two are great options. 

The real correct answer was using Fisher who destroys lefties, but for whatever reason they don't trust him in big spots unless they have no other choice. Realistically a 2-1 lead in the 8th was probably not a high probability win for the Jays given the options available. This is where trading some extra prospect capital for Duran probably would have changed the complexion of the game. The Jays don't have a guy like that. They've been fortunate that all of their wins this post season have been either blow outs or decent sized leads. The two games that were tied or 1 run leads were both evaporated in this series (both by Little). The Jays can't win games like that. Not with this pen. 

[Angrioter]

7 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

He does make a point though.  Some are acting like Dominguez and Hoffman are Ward and Henke - and they aren't.  They both have their flaws.

I wonder how much he considered Fisher there.

In the kingdom of blind men, the one-eyed men are kings.

 

Dominguez and Hoffman over Littler is a easy choice.

[Brownie19]

8 minutes ago, Angrioter said:

What was/is the role of Bassitt and Lauer in this series?

To eat innings if a starter is pulled early or hurt I would suggest - or perhaps to give us length if we end up in a long extra innings game.  People suggesting we're going to put Bassitt in the game during late inning, high leverage situations are fooling themselves.

Those 2 could play a pivotal role today as we really don't know what we'll get out of Yesavage.

[Angrioter]

1 minute ago, Brownie19 said:

To eat innings if a starter is pulled early or hurt I would suggest - or perhaps to give us length if we end up in a long extra innings game.  People suggesting we're going to put Bassitt in the game during late inning, high leverage situations are fooling themselves.

Those 2 could play a pivotal role today as we really don't know what we'll get out of Yesavage.

JS could use Bassitt or Lauer in the 6th and save Varland to the 7th.

[Brownie19]

7 minutes ago, Angrioter said:

In the kingdom of blind men, the one-eyed men are kings.

 

Dominguez and Hoffman over Littler is a easy choice.

The unwavering support for using Hoffman is hilarious.

[Big_Walleye]

18 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

The unwavering support for using Hoffman is hilarious.

I guess if you only had one eye you could mistake Hoffman for Henke on the depth chart. Lol.

On that subject does anyone else remember Henke blowing the save in a 2-1 game in the 92 world series?  They came back to win with Mike Timlin closing it out but the point being is these guys are never perfect.  Mariano Rivera was on the mound in 2001 when the Diamondbacks won.  Stuff happens.  It's baseball.

[Stangstag]

17 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

The unwavering support for using Hoffman is hilarious.

I was like, one of the biggest Hoffman supporters/believers most of the year until about August when i stopped believing in him. He’s extremely volatile, it is what it is.

Funny now the thinking has flipped and its a “fireable offense” that they didn’t use him in the 8th against the heart of the lineup. All the people that were screaming and complaining about him all year are now ANGRY he wasn’t used in a 2-1 game. Fkn nutters some of you lol.

[SeranthonySantander]

I have been on the anyone but Hoffman train, probably since that dodgers series

[BTS]

@Olerud363.354is 100% right. People trying to pin the loss on a single decision are missing the point: the bullpen isn't very good. The team is trying to get to the world series without any lockdown pen arms, and it just hasn't really come up before game 5 because the games haven't been close. 

[Jimcanuck]

58 minutes ago, Big_Walleye said:

How is this the "real issue"? Leverage relievers pitch 2 days in a row all the time.  Even our "expert" broadcasters said they liked the decision to step on their throat in that game.

JS himself said he used Little to give the M's a "different look".  In other words, if Hoffman or Seranthony had not pitched in a very low leverage situation in Game 4, one of them would have been used other than Little in Game 5, and the Jays have a better chance of winning.

Unless you have Little higher on your depth chart, for some reason.

FWIW, Roster Resource has Hoffman and Seranthony #1 and #2 on its bullpen depth chart, Little is #5.

[Buster]

1 hour ago, SeranthonySantander said:

I'd assume Hoffman was going to be used in the 9th if Little got out of the inning.  I don't think it was a matter of him being unavailable

If this is the reasoning that JS used, then he's even dumber.  The highest leverage point of the series so far wasn't going to be the 9th in Game 5.  It was the 8th in game 5.  I really, really hope that wasn't JS's reasoning.

There is actually more blame to be placed on Atkins than anyone for putting JS in the position he did - with a bunch of B and C relievers, rather than a couple or more A guys.

[Buster]

23 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

I was like, one of the biggest Hoffman supporters/believers most of the year until about August when i stopped believing in him. He’s extremely volatile, it is what it is.

Funny now the thinking has flipped and its a “fireable offense” that they didn’t use him in the 8th against the heart of the lineup. All the people that were screaming and complaining about him all year are now ANGRY he wasn’t used in a 2-1 game. Fkn nutters some of you lol.

I can't stand Hoffman, and I still think he was the better option.  Atkins gave Schneider a bunch of gas cans and BB throwers.

[Buster]

2 hours ago, Masterbather said:

Funny how nobody can find this data. Funny how Schneider didn't bring up this mysterious data.

No, just wanted to give them a different look, and you played right into their strengths and right into Little's weaknesses.

 

 

About 30 minutes before, Schneider came out of the dugout, ignored whatever "stats" would have said about Scherzer facing more batters, and let Mad Max stay in the game.  It was the right decision based on his gut.  My guess is that the used his gut, and was trying to be too smart by half by putting Little in.  It had nothing to do with an algorithm coded by the front office.  He f***ed up.  Bad.

 

Edit:  I don't know how to combine my three replies into one, sorry for the spammy.

[Stangstag]

Everyone wanting Hoffman in that spot should take a little trip down memory lane here for Hoffman’s last save in the regular season:

Or Game 4 of the ALDS:

You guys don’t even know what you want

[Big_Walleye]

19 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

JS himself said he used Little to give the M's a "different look".  In other words, if Hoffman or Seranthony had not pitched in a very low leverage situation in Game 4, one of them would have been used other than Little in Game 5, and the Jays have a better chance of winning.

Unless you have Little higher on your depth chart, for some reason.

FWIW, Roster Resource has Hoffman and Seranthony #1 and #2 on its bullpen depth chart, Little is #5.

He lied!!  He's either hiding the fact that Hoffman was hurt or not wanting to give the opposition any insight into his decision making or both.  He's very careful about what he says to the media as well he should be.

[Jimcanuck]

15 minutes ago, Big_Walleye said:

He lied!!  He's either hiding the fact that Hoffman was hurt or not wanting to give the opposition any insight into his decision making or both.  He's very careful about what he says to the media as well he should be.

LMAO

That's all you got?  Weak.

At least you agree Hoffman should have been used instead of Little, if not for some mysterious ailment only you know about.

[Jays24]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

Wow - great work by Madison Shipman.  She probably deserves a raise for suggesting the team needs to score more runs in a 2-1 game.  Not much gets past her.

Is Hoffman actually one of our top 2 arms?  I'm not sure he is.  Hoffman has been as awful as Little for months now.

Jesus Christ.  You get offended when people rip on any Jays players/coaching staff but now since it helps whatever BS argument you're trying to make, youre saying the bullpen is awful.  Cant make this s*** up man haha

[Jays24]

49 minutes ago, BTS said:

@Olerud363.354is 100% right. People trying to pin the loss on a single decision are missing the point: the bullpen isn't very good. The team is trying to get to the world series without any lockdown pen arms, and it just hasn't really come up before game 5 because the games haven't been close. 

Then ride your damn starters for as long as you can instead of always looking to pull them.  Its not against the rules to ride your best starters to 100+ pitches if needed.  

Even if the bullpen is trash, you still have a hierarchy amongst those trash relievers.  Using Little who has been one of their worst relievers in the past 21 games is ridiculous.  Thats a big enough sample to not pitch him in that situation.  

[Big_Walleye]

12 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

LMAO

That's all you got?  Weak.

At least you agree Hoffman should have been used instead of Little, if not for some mysterious ailment only you know about.

What's "weak" is calling someone an imbecile when you don't like their argument.

[Omar]

The whole "but if so and so had pitched this could also have happened" argument is a real laugher.  

I will justify Little shiting the bed because Hoffman could have come in and been worse.  Completely oblivious that this could also work the other way.  ie. Hoffman comes in and strikes out the side.  

Can't wait until we close this thread.

[Jays24]

1 minute ago, Omar said:

The whole "but if so and so had pitched this could also have happened" argument is a real laugher.  

I will justify Little shiting the bed because Hoffman could have come in and been worse.  Completely oblivious that this could also work the other way.  ie. Hoffman comes in and strikes out the side.  

Can't wait until we close this thread.

We could put IKF as our cleanup hitter and win a game but that doesnt mean you should.  There is an obvious hierarchy amongst every facet of our team, diverting from it because you wanted to show something "new" is a joke.  There is a reason why 99% of the baseball world is laughing at Schneider at the moment.  

Anyways, thats in the past now, onto game 6 where I hope we can extend the series.  If we lose this series, Schneider and Pete Walker will not be able to live this down.  

[BTS]

1 hour ago, Jays24 said:

Then ride your damn starters for as long as you can instead of always looking to pull them.  Its not against the rules to ride your best starters to 100+ pitches if needed.  

Even if the bullpen is trash, you still have a hierarchy amongst those trash relievers.  Using Little who has been one of their worst relievers in the past 21 games is ridiculous.  Thats a big enough sample to not pitch him in that situation.  

They don’t really have those kinds of starters either. It’s a mid-tier pitching staff. People keep complaining about specific choices but the reality is that they’ve hit and defended their way here and the only actual solution to people’s complaints are to have more pitchers who are very good. 
 

Like, you don’t have to squint very hard to justify the Little decision. I’m guessing the rationale looked like “If Raleigh hurts you it’s via the HR, and we believed that Little and his HR suppression was our best chance to get him out, especially in Seattle”.  The big failing here was not having a Brash or Speier or Munoz to come on. 

 

[SeranthonySantander]

59 minutes ago, Omar said:

The whole "but if so and so had pitched this could also have happened" argument is a real laugher.  

I will justify Little shiting the bed because Hoffman could have come in and been worse.  Completely oblivious that this could also work the other way.  ie. Hoffman comes in and strikes out the side.  

Can't wait until we close this thread.

This thread is going to break the record for posts