Shatkins replacement - What would your choice be ??

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

Just now, max silver said:

That exciting team didn't win the world series in either season, and the GM at the time going all in at the time and selling the farm is arguably the biggest single reason that turned into a short term window team. Maybe you believe it was worth it, but I often question whether it actually was as the team needed to be rebuilt shortly afterwards. So many of the moves were incredibly short sighted in nature and had zero view towards the future. 

That's nice the team was left with a single top prospect in the system to go along with the one year window team, that totally changes the discussion. That's exactly the same as the situation a certain GM we love discussing ten years after the fact found himself in when he took over a team with MLB's best farm system and a stacked young MLB team that was just hitting his stride.

The rebuild basically lasted three seasons as the team was back in the playoffs in the 2020 season. I don't know how much faster you think a rebuild needs to be, that's pretty damn fast in my view. 

This is hilarious!  You are the first person I have ever seen question whether 2015 was worth it or not.

 

9 years later and this organization had zero top prospects after all of their bluster about waves of talent.  But go on.

 

The rebuild lasted 3 season because this team was allowed to paper over all of their failures by continuing to add in payroll.

 

You've got nothing but nonsense in your replies.  Purely a troll.  Going on the ignore list now, bye!

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

Just now, Eat My Shatkins said:

And I think you're a simpleton who wakes up in the morning, stubs his toe on the way to the bathroom and cusses out Shapiro and Atkins for it.

 

Wow, how did you know?  If you are going to be an ass, you're going to the ignore list too.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

How do you block/ignore somebody?

 

Edit: nevermind, I figured it out

[Eat My Shatkins]

Just now, Vladdywagon said:

 

Wow, how did you know?  If you are going to be an ass, you're going to the ignore list too.

Thank goodness. I think I get a little dumber every time I read one of your responses to me, so it'll be nice when you stop.

[max silver]

4 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

So you think Ross and Mark have done a good job then?  😆

I don't delineate my own opinions down to a binary yes/no black/white 0%/100% type of ranking as I believe that's far too simplistic of a method to evaluate a front office.

I think for the most part they have done a decent job, and the situation has quickly gone downhill in recent seasons. They quickly rebuilt the club once the previous group passed it's best before date. They produced one of the better runs of regular season success in club history, while never quite being good enough to win the division when most years would have required 99-100 wins to take the division. I believe the team had enough talent to win games and even series in the post season if the players on the roster elevated their games at the right time, but unfortunately that didn't happen. The current group built up a farm system that was around top 5 in MLB for a 4 year stretch from 2018-2021, but it's gone downhill in recent seasons due to a number of factors, including poor drafting and/or development, the best prospects in the system either graduating or being dealt to supplement the major league squad, and losing draft picks and associated draft budget due to regularly signing qualified free agents most offseasons. 

[max silver]

4 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

This is hilarious!  You are the first person I have ever seen question whether 2015 was worth it or not.

 

9 years later and this organization had zero top prospects after all of their bluster about waves of talent.  But go on.

 

The rebuild lasted 3 season because this team was allowed to paper over all of their failures by continuing to add in payroll.

 

You've got nothing but nonsense in your replies.  Purely a troll.  Going on the ignore list now, bye!

LOL, I am going to lose a lot of sleep if you add me to your ignore list.

[mphenhef]

17 hours ago, Vladdywagon said:

I'd argue that the #1 reason payroll has increased is because of the rejuvenation of the fan base in 2015 showed how much money Rogers could make by fielding a competitive and exciting team.

Shapiro was able to convince Rogers, but he wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell had 2015 not happened.  

And what's ironic is that Shapiro himself could end up putting this team back into the wilderness it was in before 2015, where the interest in the team drops leading to small crowds and low TV #'s once again.  If Vladdy and Bo walk, and fan interest wanes, Rogers could just go back to low payrolls again since you can spend $100 million instead of $240 million to finish 5th in the East.

He stepped into a fantastic situation left for him by AA and found a way to mess it all up.

Every day these buffoons aren't fired is another day closer to the nightmare scenario.

Here here, from the way things are looking payroll may decrease just due to no one worth it being willing to take money to join this dumpster fire.

[mphenhef]

15 hours ago, Vladdywagon said:

Sold the farm to create the most exciting team we'd had in over 20 years, a team that should have won it all and nearly did if not for some stupid Amish kid and the s***** ump in Game 6.

And he didn't leave Shapiro with nothing - he left him with a team that went back to the ALCS in 2016, and with Vladdy Jr!

It was Shatkins' failure to start the rebuild of that team before the 2017 season that f***ed us over and resulted in the longer rebuild as we got jack for Donaldson,  

You and Brownie will go through a wall to defend these buffoons, and I just don't get it.  It makes no sense unless you are actually just Ross Atkins and Mark Shapiro running burner accounts.  

AA left them with Vlad, Jansen, Romano, Mayza and the front office guys who fought the current guys tooth and nail to take Bo.  The fact that up until last year there were still more AA draft picks/international signings playing meaningful time for the time than new regime picks is pretty telling.

AA traded away a lot of the farm in 2013 and 2015 but he was also quick to build it back up again through good drafting and development.  We are still waiting on those waves now ten years into the new guys.

[mphenhef]

14 hours ago, max silver said:

I don't delineate my own opinions down to a binary yes/no black/white 0%/100% type of ranking as I believe that's far too simplistic of a method to evaluate a front office.

I think for the most part they have done a decent job, and the situation has quickly gone downhill in recent seasons. They quickly rebuilt the club once the previous group passed it's best before date. They produced one of the better runs of regular season success in club history, while never quite being good enough to win the division when most years would have required 99-100 wins to take the division. I believe the team had enough talent to win games and even series in the post season if the players on the roster elevated their games at the right time, but unfortunately that didn't happen. The current group built up a farm system that was around top 5 in MLB for a 4 year stretch from 2018-2021, but it's gone downhill in recent seasons due to a number of factors, including poor drafting and/or development, the best prospects in the system either graduating or being dealt to supplement the major league squad, and losing draft picks and associated draft budget due to regularly signing qualified free agents most offseasons. 

Weren’t the Jays top 5 farm years pre Vlad and Bo debuts?

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

3 hours ago, mphenhef said:

AA left them with Vlad, Jansen, Romano, Mayza and the front office guys who fought the current guys tooth and nail to take Bo.  The fact that up until last year there were still more AA draft picks/international signings playing meaningful time for the time than new regime picks is pretty telling.

AA traded away a lot of the farm in 2013 and 2015 but he was also quick to build it back up again through good drafting and development.  We are still waiting on those waves now ten years into the new guys.

Yep, AA was really amazing at building a farm system quickly.  And then actually using it to acquire star players.

Acquired Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Reyes, Donaldson, Price, Tulo etc all within 2 years..  And still left more in the farm system than Shatkins will for whoever takes over once Rogers sacks them.

[max silver]

3 hours ago, mphenhef said:

Weren’t the Jays top 5 farm years pre Vlad and Bo debuts?

The club still had a top 5 system by Baseball America in 2020 and 2021 after Vlad and Bo debuted. 

[Brownie19]

AA was good at rebuilding the farm system - but he also played under different rules and he exploited those rules (kudos to him) to give himself 2-3 times more top draft picks than Atkins (or any other GM in baseball) is able to under the new rules. 

I 100% agree that Atkins has sucked at drafting/development, but AA also had advantages when you try to compare them, which should be considered in this discussion.

To be honest, even after exploding the loophole, AA's "hit" rate still wasn't great.  If it was, our window may have stayed open longer than just 2015/16.

[max silver]

19 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

Yep, AA was really amazing at building a farm system quickly.  And then actually using it to acquire star players.

Acquired Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Reyes, Donaldson, Price, Tulo etc all within 2 years..  And still left more in the farm system than Shatkins will for whoever takes over once Rogers sacks them.

He was great at acquiring stars through trade but he was absolutely awful at producing his own home grown players. I think that's a primary gripe of mine of his time at the helm, as he attempted to take short cuts to contention by shipping out prospects and never really built a cheap home grown base for his team first. 

I don't know if the new group that takes over will actually be in worse shape than the current group was when they took over for AA. By that time the Tommy John brigade should largely be working their way back into competition, and if a few of these high ceiling arms take a step forward that will give the overall system rankings a sizeable boost. The team also stands to choose high in the upcoming draft, and depending on how the rest of the offseason unfolds in terms of signing any qualified free agents there should be a nice infusion of talent through the draft. Finally if the club flounders again this season there will more than likely be another sell off at the trade deadline. The team received some nice pieces last trade deadline, and this time they would stand to have higher quality players to offer on the trade market. 

[BatFlip]

20 hours ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

"A fantastic situation left for him by AA..."

 

WTF?

A "fantastic situation?" 

Hahaha!  This is unintentional comedy.  

[BB17]

Apparently there is a rumour Shapiro will become the president of MLSE. If that happens the media/city will jump all over him and there will be a ton of complaining lol. I don't know how true the rumour is but @YYZsportsmedia tweeted it a week or so ago.

 

In terms of purely the business side of things he's done a pretty good job with the Blue jays. No one really knows how much of the blame is his when it comes to the baseball operations side. Have to wonder if he would try to meddle with the Raptors/Leafs or just leave the operation completely as is.

[Spanky99]

50 minutes ago, BB17 said:

Apparently there is a rumour Shapiro will become the president of MLSE. If that happens the media/city will jump all over him and there will be a ton of complaining lol. I don't know how true the rumour is but @YYZsportsmedia tweeted it a week or so ago.

 

In terms of purely the business side of things he's done a pretty good job with the Blue jays. No one really knows how much of the blame is his when it comes to the baseball operations side. Have to wonder if he would try to meddle with the Raptors/Leafs or just leave the operation completely as is.

That rumour still lives? Hah... it ain't happening, MLSE just hired that Canadian golf dude from Europe. Name escapes me. Found it, Keith Pelley.

[BB17]

He said he knows Pelley is there already but the rumour is still kicking FWIW.

[Spanky99]

21 hours ago, BB17 said:

He said he knows Pelley is there already but the rumour is still kicking FWIW.

Where's your old account, is it a sign up issue? @Brock Beauchamp can help you get signed in properly. @burlingtonbandit

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

21 hours ago, BB17 said:

He said he knows Pelley is there already but the rumour is still kicking FWIW.

6 minutes ago, Spanky99 said:

Where's your old account, is it a sign up issue? @Brock Beauchamp can help you get signed in properly. @burlingtonbandit

For sure, send me a PM and I'll get your accounts straightened out.

[Spanky99]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

For sure, send me a PM and I'll get your accounts straightened out.

Well, I believe it's him, lol

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 minutes ago, Spanky99 said:

Well, I believe it's him, lol

 

Oh, it's not that. Some people don't want their old accounts back for whatever reason so I give them the option to reach out if they care.

[Gen.Disarray]

https://jaysjournal.com/the-one-big-splash-the-toronto-blue-jays-should-be-all-in-on-dodgers-gm?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=topic%2Ftorontobluejays

 

Thoughts?

[Spanky__99]

On 1/3/2025 at 8:21 PM, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

Chris Antonetti.  Maybe Chernov too.

We got the wrong guys from Cleveland in first place.

Oops... I've got some egg. 😂🖕

[Spanky__99]

On 1/8/2025 at 12:39 PM, Delete_My_Account_Thanks said:

I'd argue that the #1 reason payroll has increased is because of the rejuvenation of the fan base in 2015 showed how much money Rogers could make by fielding a competitive and exciting team.

Shapiro was able to convince Rogers, but he wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell had 2015 not happened.  

And what's ironic is that Shapiro himself could end up putting this team back into the wilderness it was in before 2015, where the interest in the team drops leading to small crowds and low TV #'s once again.  If Vladdy and Bo walk, and fan interest wanes, Rogers could just go back to low payrolls again since you can spend $100 million instead of $240 million to finish 5th in the East.

He stepped into a fantastic situation left for him by AA and found a way to mess it all up.

Every day these buffoons aren't fired is another day closer to the nightmare scenario.

So is this the worst rant ever? 😅

[Spanky__99]

Fun bump... 🤡

[Laika]

Hilarious thread 

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, Laika said:

Hilarious thread 

Glorious