Vlad sets extension talk deadline of opening day of spring training

[max silver]

Bobby Whitt Jr is signed with the Royals for over a decade with the Royals. I'm not sure what the point of discussing him is. Yeah he's a stud. I think Vlad's had an elite hit profile 3 of the last 4 years and a above average hit profile in the other year. He disclosed he was dealing with personal ****. Honestly, I could care less if he was primarily a DH and didn't play in the field. If I signed him long term, I'd tinker and play him at third and the outfield as well as first to see if there's a better fit or if his D can get better at first.

 

The present discussion is primarily about the amount of risk involved in a Vlad long term extension. I simply provided a player that I think is actually a low risk candidate, vs a player who I believe is a very high risk candidate. Vlad has kind of been like a box of chocolates in that you don't know from season to season what version of him is going to appear at the plate, but you can bank on him being one of MLB's least valuable defenders and baserunners year over year. I'd like to see him played more at third base as he posted positive numbers in his short stint last season. I don't know if playing him in the outfield would be the wisest choice given the fact he's dealt with knee issues in the past and the extra running could potentially be problematic as a result.

[saskjayfan]

The present discussion is primarily about the amount of risk involved in a Vlad long term extension. I simply provided a player that I think is actually a low risk candidate, vs a player who I believe is a very high risk candidate. Vlad has kind of been like a box of chocolates in that you don't know from season to season what version of him is going to appear at the plate, but you can bank on him being one of MLB's least valuable defenders and baserunners year over year. I'd like to see him played more at third base as he posted positive numbers in his short stint last season. I don't know if playing him in the outfield would be the wisest choice given the fact he's dealt with knee issues in the past and the extra running could potentially be problematic as a result.

 

Most free agents are 29 to 31 years old. Bregman will be in his age 31 season and is looking for 7 years. That's far more risky than Vlad imo.

[BTS]

I'm having a hard time understanding why people want to keep Vlad when it's basically universally accepted that the team will be starting a rebuild in 2026. Probably looking at 2029 to start contending again if things go well. Vlad will be 30 and we'll be looking at the last 10 years of the deal, and likely starting the albatross stage of his contract.

[Terminator]

If you bring Vlad back the rebuild is officially canceled

 

WC3 will be easy to make with Vlad pumping out 5 WAR a year

[Nexii]

Don't disagree, although I think theres a bit of surplus value for teams having a superstar or 'face' player in terms of interest/viewership. A team of average players isn't as exciting, even if its an 81 win team either way

 

Think of like Halladay when the Jays were terrible

 

Anyways, other than signing someone in the echelon of Vlad they should sign shorter FA deals, spend to the cap and trade for the future where they can

[Brownie19]

Don't disagree, although I think theres a bit of surplus value for teams having a superstar or 'face' player in terms of interest/viewership. A team of average players isn't as exciting, even if its an 81 win team either way

 

Think of like Halladay when the Jays were terrible

 

Anyways, other than signing someone in the echelon of Vlad they should sign shorter FA deals, spend to the cap and trade for the future where they can

 

I think there's some truth to this. It will be interesting to see what the payroll is during the rebuild. Typically it drops right now, but you could probably really accelerate a rebuild if you kept the payroll up in the $200M - $240M range. As you say, continue to sign short term FA's (while being careful not to block your young players) and deal them at the deadline.

[Carlos Danger]

There is a difference between a rebuild and a retool.

 

Pat Gillick traded two of the top and most popular Jays at the time for Alomar and Carter. Point being, we can move Bo, Vlad, Bassitt etc and if we aim for MLB ready/near ready returns, can still be competitive and probably with a lot more long term salary flexibility, at least for a few years.

[Omar]

I don't believe Rogers has the patience to allow this management group another shot at rebuild considering the investment in payroll and facility already made. Probably why Shatkins insist on rolling the dice again in 2025. Self preservation.

[L54]

There is a difference between a rebuild and a retool.

 

Pat Gillick traded two of the top and most popular Jays at the time for Alomar and Carter. Point being, we can move Bo, Vlad, Bassitt etc and if we aim for MLB ready/near ready returns, can still be competitive and probably with a lot more long term salary flexibility, at least for a few years.

 

That’s just it. Trading Vlad doesn’t mean you’re getting a bunch of 17 year olds back. You’re getting at least one and maybe two players that can contribute as soon as opening day. Plus 30M

 

If you added Jasson Domínguez, Pete Alonso and Jeff Hoffman I don’t think there’s any question you’re a better team even if that WAR is dispersed amongst three players.

[Dick_Pole]

After reading that interview, I realize that Guerrero is softer than Ben Simmons wrapped in Charmin toilet paper. I get it. These 20-somethings are too young to remember 9/11 or the Cold War or Vietnam or WW2 or the Great Depression or any kind of real hardship or disaster so everything is mental health. You either go the Jordan Peterson route...or act like Vlad. Fine. But the fact that he refuses to do an interview in English because of some perceived slight from 5 years ago (mind you, he is getting handsomely paid to provide entertainment to a primarily English speaking market) shows what kind of diva he is. The team that gives him a $400 million contract will absolutely come to regret it. I just worry that the loudmouth casuals will coerce this regime (the FO and/or Rogers themselves) into doing this stupid contract. Where was this money for Delgado? Now that's a man who deserved to spend his career here and probably would have racked up north of 500 home runs all in a Jays uniform.

[Spanky99]

Delgado money brought up in 24? ****'s getting salty as ****!

[Dick_Pole]

50-something year old Delgado versus 20-something year old Guerrero in a fight live on Netflix. Unlike the previous 50-something versus 20-something, Delgado will be the heavy favourite.

[saskjayfan]

ThatÂ’s just it. Trading Vlad doesnÂ’t mean youÂ’re getting a bunch of 17 year olds back. YouÂ’re getting at least one and maybe two players that can contribute as soon as opening day. Plus 30M

 

If you added Jasson DomÃ*nguez, Pete Alonso and Jeff Hoffman I donÂ’t think thereÂ’s any question youÂ’re a better team even if that WAR is dispersed amongst three players.

 

The Yankees signed Goldschmidt for 1 year. I doubt they trade Dominguez. Trading Vlad means getting a few years of control of a 2ish win player and a couple prospects that likely don't amount to much. The Red Sox got nothing out of the mookie betts trade. That's the more likely outcome. Keep and extend your stars. We were able to get Gausman, springer, Berrios to extend because we had young stars in Bo and Vlad. If we don't have Vlad extended our already difficult job of attracting free agents will be nearly impossible.

[gruber92]

The Yankees signed Goldschmidt for 1 year. I doubt they trade Dominguez. Trading Vlad means getting a few years of control of a 2ish win player and a couple prospects that likely don't amount to much. The Red Sox got nothing out of the mookie betts trade. That's the more likely outcome. Keep and extend your stars. We were able to get Gausman, springer, Berrios to extend because we had young stars in Bo and Vlad. If we don't have Vlad extended our already difficult job of attracting free agents will be nearly impossible.

 

Nobody is signing long term with current management in place. Shatkins have long expired is the perception around the league.

[max silver]

The Yankees signed Goldschmidt for 1 year. I doubt they trade Dominguez. Trading Vlad means getting a few years of control of a 2ish win player and a couple prospects that likely don't amount to much. The Red Sox got nothing out of the mookie betts trade. That's the more likely outcome. Keep and extend your stars. We were able to get Gausman, springer, Berrios to extend because we had young stars in Bo and Vlad. If we don't have Vlad extended our already difficult job of attracting free agents will be nearly impossible.

 

The Red Sox got nothing out of the Mookie Betts trade because they shot themselves in the foot by insisting that David Price be part of the deal as well. This would be like the Blue Jays attaching George Springer to any Vlad trade, and there's nothing to indicate Rogers is going to cut costs in that fashion at the moment.

[saskjayfan]

The Red Sox got nothing out of the Mookie Betts trade because they shot themselves in the foot by insisting that David Price be part of the deal as well. This would be like the Blue Jays attaching George Springer to any Vlad trade, and there's nothing to indicate Rogers is going to cut costs in that fashion at the moment.

 

That's not true. They paid half of Price's salary\

[jaysblue]

Jays just need to make a decision regarding Vladdy rather than staying in limbo.

 

1) Trade him for young MLB ready pieces and still remain competitive (like L54 said, you free up $30M in arb money that you could use on a bat like Alonso and also acquire likely 2 or 3 pieces that help you in other areas for 2025 and beyond).

 

2) Sign him to an extension which makes him the face of the franchise for the next decade and you build around him.

 

3) Stand pat though go all-in for 2025 with Vladdy under control for one more year. Most unlikely scenario to happen since it's been a quiet offseason thus far and the amount of options in free agency is dwindling.

 

4) Stand pat, keeping the status quo and not improving the club significantly for a run in 2025.

 

The worst IMO would be Option 4 and that could definitely be a possibility. Keeping Vladdy and not doing much else at improving the club for 2025 would be awful.

[saskjayfan]

Jays just need to make a decision regarding Vladdy rather than staying in limbo.

 

1) Trade him for young MLB ready pieces and still remain competitive (like L54 said, you free up $30M in arb money that you could use on a bat like Alonso and also acquire likely 2 or 3 pieces that help you in other areas for 2025 and beyond).

 

2) Sign him to an extension which makes him the face of the franchise for the next decade and you build around him.

 

3) Stand pat though go all-in for 2025 with Vladdy under control for one more year. Most unlikely scenario to happen since it's been a quiet offseason thus far and the amount of options in free agency is dwindling.

 

4) Stand pat, keeping the status quo and not improving the club significantly for a run in 2025.

 

The worst IMO would be Option 4 and that could definitely be a possibility. Keeping Vladdy and not doing much else at improving the club for 2025 would be awful.

 

Having a lame duck GM that has to make the playoffs to keep his job has sort of complicated things.

[max silver]

That's not true. They paid half of Price's salary\

 

I've no doubt that cushioned the blow but the Red Sox certainly would have garnered a better return had they held onto Price.

[L54]

The Yankees signed Goldschmidt for 1 year. I doubt they trade Dominguez. Trading Vlad means getting a few years of control of a 2ish win player and a couple prospects that likely don't amount to much. The Red Sox got nothing out of the mookie betts trade. That's the more likely outcome. Keep and extend your stars. We were able to get Gausman, springer, Berrios to extend because we had young stars in Bo and Vlad. If we don't have Vlad extended our already difficult job of attracting free agents will be nearly impossible.

 

Yes he was just the example I’ve been when referencing a Vlad trade

 

Mookie Betts trade wasn’t just Mookie Betts

 

2 WAR players pre arb are valuable

 

Are you writing Vlad a blank check? Vlad has no incentive to sign his free agency away for anything less than he wants at this point

[Dick_Pole]

Yeah, the Jays have the absolute worst combination possible. Crybaby divas who overestimate their value as the "stars" of the organization and a socially inept beta GM who rejects any responsibility, gets all squirrelly and evasive when things get tough and likes to throw his underlings under the bus. Who knows if Bichette and Guerrero were brought up this way (being sons of MLB stars likely doesn't help their perceived pedigree status) or if having this FO being their only exposure to MLB culture during their formative years made them into who they are. The Jays badly need Gibbons back in some material form.

 

If I was a fan of a rival team who paid close enough attention, I'd be laughing my ass off about the Jays current no-win mess of a situation. Much like how we were laughing at the Orioles up until two years ago (whoops). You either don't sign these guys and see fan uproar and get a stench of being unable to keep your stars. Which has currently impacted the team's ability to sign free agents despite having money. Or you sign these guys and have contracts that will age terribly pretty fast with guys that have questionable locker room character and level of talent. Or you have this mongrel of a dufus trying to trade them and start a rebuild when his contract length lays out absolutely no incentive to do a good job of it.

[Rusty_Savage]

Jays just need to make a decision regarding Vladdy rather than staying in limbo.

 

1) Trade him for young MLB ready pieces and still remain competitive (like L54 said, you free up $30M in arb money that you could use on a bat like Alonso and also acquire likely 2 or 3 pieces that help you in other areas for 2025 and beyond).

 

2) Sign him to an extension which makes him the face of the franchise for the next decade and you build around him.

 

3) Stand pat though go all-in for 2025 with Vladdy under control for one more year. Most unlikely scenario to happen since it's been a quiet offseason thus far and the amount of options in free agency is dwindling.

 

4) Stand pat, keeping the status quo and not improving the club significantly for a run in 2025.

 

The worst IMO would be Option 4 and that could definitely be a possibility. Keeping Vladdy and not doing much else at improving the club for 2025 would be awful.

 

I think option 4 is the route they are planning and it's scares me that we are going to lose Bo and Vlad for a couple of comp picks if we are anywhere close to the 3WC at the trade deadline. Atkins' ass has to be on the hot seat

[Krylian]

12/450M....get it done ASAP and then build a contender

 

if he has another good season he'll get $500-$600 on the open market.

[PhillyBlueJay]

if he has another good season he'll get $500-$600 on the open market.

 

Queue the fire sale coming…..

 

Either Atkins or Shapiro approach Roger’s Board of Directors next 1-2 weeks and ask for rebuild and the fire sale begins on Bo, Vlad, Gausman, Berrios or they wait till May 15 and if they are 7-8 games back early fire sale occurs.

 

They are going to say to Roger’s that they tried to attract top free agents but were unsuccessful and tell fans the cost of keeping both Bo and Vlad are prohibitive and best direction is to trade to maximize mlb ready players.

 

Bottomline… sit back and wait approach has never worked out for Atkins and the fact not one free agent signed outside of a pitchers is telling that no one wants to come to TO due to no long term franchise stability with core players.

 

That is 100% on Atkins and Shapiro. Both know their time is up in Oct 2025 but don’t want to screw future MLB job opportunities with foolish panic moves. Their flashy suits from day 1 showed they were all flash and no substance coining from failures in Cleveland.

[Brownie19]

To be fair - nobody's wanted SF's money the past 4-5 years, but they held out and ended up with Chapman and Snell on good deals late in the offseason last year.

[Stangstag]

Queue the fire sale coming…..

 

Either Atkins or Shapiro approach Roger’s Board of Directors next 1-2 weeks and ask for rebuild and the fire sale begins on Bo, Vlad, Gausman, Berrios or they wait till May 15 and if they are 7-8 games back early fire sale occurs.

 

They are going to say to Roger’s that they tried to attract top free agents but were unsuccessful and tell fans the cost of keeping both Bo and Vlad are prohibitive and best direction is to trade to maximize mlb ready players.

 

Bottomline… sit back and wait approach has never worked out for Atkins and the fact not one free agent signed outside of a pitchers is telling that no one wants to come to TO due to no long term franchise stability with core players.

 

That is 100% on Atkins and Shapiro. Both know their time is up in Oct 2025 but don’t want to screw future MLB job opportunities with foolish panic moves. Their flashy suits from day 1 showed they were all flash and no substance coining from failures in Cleveland.

 

There won’t be a firesale until July 15th at the earliest

[Jays24]

There won’t be a firesale until July 15th at the earliest

 

Unless they surprise everyone and make some big moves now... the common sense approach would be to do it right now when their values would be higher. They aren't fooling any fans this year... rogers center will be empty after the first week based on our current trajectory.

[Key22]

Not sure why anyone thinks Atkins' job is on the line. He survived pulling Berrios and he survived last year. Rogers loves Shapiro and Shapiro and Atkins are clearly a package deal. Best buddies for like 20 years going back to Cleveland. They promised a great farm with continuous talent coming through and winning teams etc.

 

Our starting pitching is predicted to be abysmal next year apparently with projected regression abound. Our pen is still lousy.

 

There are too many holes. I am not sure why they are not rebuilding. The Astros have been able to make hard choices trading away top players or letting them go to free agency. Tampa is a master at it. Jays need to do the same. If you aren't going to pay the free agent prices then you need to draft and develop. If you suck at drafting and developing you need to hire people who are good at it. Maybe hire the guys away from Tampa triple their salaries and bring in dome talent.

[Brownie19]

Unless they surprise everyone and make some big moves now... the common sense approach would be to do it right now when their values would be higher. They aren't fooling any fans this year... rogers center will be empty after the first week based on our current trajectory.

 

It will be interesting to see how quickly fans stop coming. I think they are slower to react than you think. It's a fun place to be now and most casuals don't know the game to anywhere near the level most in here do (even you ). I think even without a significant move, the dome will be relatively full until say mid-July to early August.

 

Unfortunately, we may have the opportunity to find out.

[Stangstag]

Unless they surprise everyone and make some big moves now... the common sense approach would be to do it right now when their values would be higher. They aren't fooling any fans this year... rogers center will be empty after the first week based on our current trajectory.

 

There’s pretty much 0.1% chance they start a rebuild/retool before the all-star break. Its just not gonna happen