Jays Acquiring Andres Gimenez

[Brownie19]

I think I'll just cancel my Rogers subscription.

 

I will reiterate again - can we just fast forward to the trade deadline? Nothing we do is going to matter. We're a 4th or 5th place team about to lose both Vlad and Bo. What a miserable franchise and fan base to cheer for.

[Carlos Danger]

Spencer Horowitz is actually way less than I thought we would give up, and we get a decent reliever in Nick Sandlin out of it. Will Wagner can now get full time AB as the Horwitz replacement.

 

Perfectly happy with this trade.

 

Yea, if stays as is, good deal. Need to see what else they do on the O side to compensate.

[Brownie19]

Yea, I think we are getting Sandlin.. That is a decent pick-up. The guy used to start also if they want to go that way...

 

Yep - nothing like adding a loser who's combined for -1 WAR over the last 2 years and throws 92.5 MPH.

 

I guess someone is going to have to soak up 70 s***ing innings when we're getting blown out in 2025. Might as well be Sandlin.

[AMS528]

It's not that Gimenez is a bad player. His numbers would clearly indicate he isn't, but I'm not really sure what we're doing from a roster contruction standpoint here. Allocating a chunk of the limited money that's available to a defense first (and maybe defense only) 2B when we had several decent 2B options that voltron into a starter level player doesn't seem like the right move.

 

If we're thinking of moving him to SS and moving on from Bo, maybe that's the plan here I don't know. But it feels like there are lots of holes in this roster and this move limits our ability to fill those holes?

 

Strictly as a value trade this is fine and probably even a good deal (depending on how good of a bat Horwitz is long term). But I don't know if it's what the team needs.

[G-Snarls]

Some $ going from CLE to TOR would make this more appealing

 

Were there not better trade targets?

[gruber92]

But how will this free up at bats for Wagner when Giminez starts every day at second base? I hope Bo is traded and Giminez moves over to short.

[burlingtonbandit]

It's not that Gimenez is a bad player. His numbers would clearly indicate he isn't, but I'm not really sure what we're doing from a roster contruction standpoint here. Allocating a chunk of the limited money that's available to a defense first (and maybe defense only) 2B when we had several decent 2B options that voltron into a starter level player doesn't seem like the right move.

 

If we're thinking of moving him to SS and moving on from Bo, maybe that's the plan here I don't know. But it feels like there are lots of holes in this roster and this move limits our ability to fill those holes?

 

It makes sense if you add another bat or 2 in the lineup. If this was all you do then it makes no sense.

 

I'd much rather the Jays make this move then give Bregman 175M. If Giminez slides over to SS and is elite there you could see him being a 3-4 Win player even with the mediocre bat.

[gruber92]

It's not that Gimenez is a bad player. His numbers would clearly indicate he isn't, but I'm not really sure what we're doing from a roster contruction standpoint here. Allocating a chunk of the limited money that's available to a defense first (and maybe defense only) 2B when we had several decent 2B options that voltron into a starter level player doesn't seem like the right move.

 

If we're thinking of moving him to SS and moving on from Bo, maybe that's the plan here I don't know. But it feels like there are lots of holes in this roster and this move limits our ability to fill those holes?

 

Strictly as a value trade this is fine and maybe even a good deal (depending on how good of a bat Horwitz is long term). But I don't know if it's what the team needs.

 

Yep, like re-signing KK last off season.

[Terminator]

But how will this free up at bats for Wagner when Giminez starts every day at second base? I hope Bo is traded and Giminez moves over to short.

 

Maybe Gimenez at 3B, Bo at SS, Wagner at 2B and Ernie at UT?

[AMS528]

Maybe Gimenez at 3B, Bo at SS, Wagner at 2B and Ernie at UT?

 

I doubt it with this free agency period but maybe Bregman can be had at a not stupid price and we have a reasonable hitting infield that also plays great D?

[Laika]

Hate losing Horwitz.

[Jonn]

I would imagine Wagner will DH a lot. Probably spell Vladdy at 1B. Upgrading the Outfield has become paramount. Don’t think you can view Springer as an everyday player at this point.

[Terminator]

Hate losing Horwitz.

 

Never liked that guy anyway

[Terminator]

Ross selling high on Horwitz and buying low on Gimenez is good business

[Ryu In My House]

But how will this free up at bats for Wagner when Giminez starts every day at second base? I hope Bo is traded and Giminez moves over to short.

 

I am 99% sure Giminez is penciled-in at SS now, or 2026.

 

I wonder what the Jays could get for Bichette?

[Key22]

Yep - nothing like adding a loser who's combined for -1 WAR over the last 2 years and throws 92.5 MPH.

 

I guess someone is going to have to soak up 70 s***ing innings when we're getting blown out in 2025. Might as well be Sandlin.

 

Well he was 8-0 so maybe like D&D he has a high luck factor - or he's really good when he needs to be and sucks when the game doesn't matter - the Jack Morris of relievers.

[burlingtonbandit]

Ross selling high on Horwitz and buying low on Gimenez is good business

 

Yeah I don't mind it. Horowitz could end up having a Rowdy Tellez type career and that just isn't that valuable, and you can find guys like that pretty easily on 1 year deals in FA.

 

Theres some upside with Giminez if he can be elite at SS and hit a little bit more. He could end up declining defensively/on the bases and the offence gets worse in which case that contract will look bad but seems like a reasonable gamble to take given where the Jays are.

[metafour]

Here come the guys who spent all year claiming that Horwitz was a AAAA non-asset to now tell us how we got ripped off by trading him.

[Brownie19]

Save your eyes people - DO NOT go view Gimenez's statscast page. There's literally no evidence or indication that Gimenez will ever hit. The only guy with a shittier statcast page is Varsho.

[glory]

Nick Mitchell is included in the deal. So it's Horwitz and Mitchell for Gimenez and Sandlin. No cash involved. Per BNS.

[Brownie19]

Nick Mitchell is included in the deal. So it's Horwitz and Mitchell for Gimenez and Sandlin. No cash involved. Per BNS.

 

4th round pick last year. Hit well in A ball as a 20 year old.

[Jonn]

Yup straight salary dump for Cleveland. And they picked up a decent bat with cheap control for their troubles. No idea where he plays with Naylor there but they hate spending money so this makes sense.

[glory]

If this is leading to a Bichette trade, then that's really the only way this makes any sense. Gimenez with a 90-100 wRC+ should be a damn valuable player at 2B, but it's not what this team needs. If he's a SS and Bo is traded to fill another hole with someone more controllable, then you could at least squint hard enough to see some direction.

[hanton]

Please tell me I'm not reading Horwitz is going the other way. That bat is legit

 

f*** these idiots enough already

[G-Snarls]

Yup straight salary dump for Cleveland. And they picked up a decent bat with cheap control for their troubles. No idea where he plays with Naylor there but they hate spending money so this makes sense.

 

I'm all for taking on salary in a salary dump trade

 

I just don't see how this was the right target

[saskjayfan]

He was a 6 win player at 23

 

Could be an amazing trade

 

I bet they gave up a lot for him actually

 

It's not. He's not a 6 win player. He can't hit for s***. Cleveland's current management is a lot better than their old management. Whatever little money we had to spend we're spending it on defense and we gave away some offense....Yeah Atkins! Let's jerk off to defensive and positional adjustment FWAR.

[Jays24]

I will reserve judgment on this trade assuming we will still get 2 impactful bats in addition to keeping Bo/Vlad... anything less then Atkins can go f*** off.

[MikeM3]

He must be playing SS to justify that noodle bat

[Barrelsandbombs]

Uh oh...

 

[Key22]

The Jays brass certainly likes defense and if the Yankees had any they might have won the WS - so it matters.

 

The old-school thinking in baseball was defence up the middle and hitting comes from the corners. So you want defence first at catcher, SS, 2B, CF (and good pitching). Power from RF/LF/1B/3B/DH

 

Giminez and Varsho are Elite defenders, and Kirk is solid. Bo is the letdown defensively, but he makes up for it with the bat (in a sense, Bo's offence makes up for Springer's lack of offence in RF, and Springer offers above-average defence). Horwitz was made redundant with Wagner.

 

So the old school was five bats and four defenders. If the Jays land two bats—Hernandez and Alonso or something—then with those two and Vladdy and a Bounceback from Bo, you have four bats and five defenders. It's respectable. It should be enough to compete for a WC, assuming they land a closer and top-of-the-rotation starter. (Or maybe a Manea (3.0 WAR) type since he has almost the same war as Fried (3.5 WAR) but won't cost nearly as much.