Is the window closing for Atkins and Shapiro?

[Jays333]

3 people? I better sell my Rogers stock!

 

Lol I wouldn't. However if I know of 3 people. Others on this board are talking about not attending games this season when they normally would. People here are talking about not watching when they normally would. So if just on this board you have people not as interested how many fans in the whole of Canada are also not interested. Id imagine quite a few, to the point where they probably will not take in as much revenue this year as expected. However I highly doubt Rogers is worried as the Jays have massive fan base. If the team continues to decline though, and revenue continues to decline this could absolutely be the beginning of the end for Shatkins.

[Stangstag]

Anyone else expecting a slightly mixed/ tepid response from the crowd when Vladdy is announced tonight?

 

Nah he’ll ge the biggest cheer like usual. Cashuls

[Krylian]

Anyone else expecting a slightly mixed/ tepid response from the crowd when Vladdy is announced tonight?

 

He'll get a good response because lots of fairweather fans go on opening night. They'd cheer an 0-162 team.

[Krylian]

He'll get a good response because lots of fairweather fans go on opening night. They'd cheer an 0-162 team.

 

I'm going tomorrow night...for the cheap dogs.

[tazsub3]

I Hope we get that , as a fan , nothing but pain will get us to get rid of this incompétence.

[G-Snarls]

Nah he’ll ge the biggest cheer like usual. Cashuls

 

Cuz of ice baths and home run derbyzz???

[BaseballIsLife]

I hope Shapiro stays. The baseball ops may need a change if other teams continue to pass Toronto by in specific areas. And I actually am one of the few who doesn’t mind the investment in defensive players. I still have faith in Kiner-Falefa and Varsho’s fwar, lol.

[G-Snarls]

I hope Shapiro stays too

[Krylian]

I hope Shapiro stays too

 

If he's just going to focus on the business piece, keep him.

I don't want this organization to have a philosophy of 'Yes man Managers' anymore. I don't want decisions to already be decided before the game even starts anymore. Analytics are important, but so is feel. If a guy is on a heater don't pull him or sit him because of an "organizational philosophy."

[Brownie19]

If he's just going to focus on the business piece, keep him.

I don't want this organization to have a philosophy of 'Yes man Managers' anymore. I don't want decisions to already be decided before the game even starts anymore. Analytics are important, but so is feel. If a guy is on a heater don't pull him or sit him because of an "organizational philosophy."

 

Unfortunately, it's difficult to know how much feel they are implementing into these decisions already. To fans, it probably looks like there is 0 feel being used, but in reality, they may already be using "feel" in their decisions. To what extent, we don't know. What % of each decision should be left to "feel" - especially if it goes against what the analytics say? 25%? 50%? Interesting topic/debate.

[Krylian]

Unfortunately, it's difficult to know how much feel they are implementing into these decisions already. To fans, it probably looks like there is 0 feel being used, but in reality, they may already be using "feel" in their decisions. To what extent, we don't know. What % of each decision should be left to "feel" - especially if it goes against what the analytics say? 25%? 50%? Interesting topic/debate.

 

Well...the Berrios pull was clearly no feel. Sitting Schneider after a good game...not much feel there. Where's the reward and showing confidence in your players for doing a good job?

[Brownie19]

Well...the Berrios pull was clearly no feel. Sitting Schneider after a good game...not much feel there. Where's the reward and showing confidence in your players for doing a good job?

 

You don't know that though. The computer might have told Schneider to pull Berrios even earlier in the WC game last year. Or maybe it didn't. I bet you it told him to pull Berrios earlier than he did last night. It may also have told him to sit Davis Schneider v. Castillo last night. The computer may have told him to use Pearson after Berrios last night up 4-0, but Schneider knew he didn't want to take any chances in the home opener, so he went to Garcia and Green. Maybe this is a sign that JS is improving?

 

That said, you may be correct. The Jays org may say that in very important and/or critical games, the amount of "feel" JS is allowed to use is 0 - or is very small, say 0-10%. Good teams like Tampa or the LA Dodgers may use the same strategy, while really s***** teams may use too much feel - who knows?

 

The problem with "feel" is that it can just be 100% wrong too. Did JS use "feel" when he put Tapia in the 2022 WC game? I can't imagine any computer said that was the right move. Last night, "feel" probably would have put Clement in the game instead of IKF, yet IKF goes 2-4 with an RBI. Analytics exist because it's really f***ing hard to get "feels" right on a consistent basis.

 

There's no doubt you need to try and use ALL the information you have at your finger tips. The analytics are AND SHOULD be a major component, but you also need to use the other things like what your eyes tell you, gut feelings, etc. to some extent.

[tazsub3]

So if this homestand continues the same way, does anyone feel we might get a manager or even atkins firing?

[Spanky99]

So if this homestand continues the same way, does anyone feel we might get a manager or even atkins firing?

 

No.

[Steeljays]

So if this homestand continues the same way, does anyone feel we might get a manager or even atkins firing?

 

My guess is by May. Team is too inconsistent. Lineup s a bunch f 9th hitters. Coaches are piss poor. Donnie baseball is decades past. Martinez is a dud. Schneider s just a puppet

[Stangstag]

My guess is by May. Team is too inconsistent. Lineup s a bunch f 9th hitters. Coaches are piss poor. Donnie baseball is decades past. Martinez is a dud. Schneider s just a puppet

 

Not a chance

[JFD]

 

Let Ross cook.

 

He's gonna cook alright, on the hot seat

[wamco]

Not a chance

 

Edwin it is

[Sorrow]

I don't see any changes until at least June. I do think that Schneider needs to start playing Schneider in LF full time and treating KK, Schneider and Varsho as a bit of a platoon based on match ups. If someone has really good fastballs start KK over Schneider as an example. I do think this line up would look a better when Jansen is back with Jansen hitting 5th, Biggio 6th, Schneider 7th, Varsho 8th and IKF 9th that bottom half all of a sudden looks a lot better. Jansen is probably the best hitter on the team and it does lengthen the line up. Kirk needs to be hitting way down in the line up when he is playing. Since July 1st of 2022 Kirk has a 91 wRC+, .297 wOBA .245/.327/.334 triple slash, he should likely be hitting 9th behind Varsho, KK and IKF.

[BatFlip]

I don't see any changes until at least June. I do think that Schneider needs to start playing Schneider in LF full time and treating KK, Schneider and Varsho as a bit of a platoon based on match ups. If someone has really good fastballs start KK over Schneider as an example. I do think this line up would look a better when Jansen is back with Jansen hitting 5th, Biggio 6th, Schneider 7th, Varsho 8th and IKF 9th that bottom half all of a sudden looks a lot better. Jansen is probably the best hitter on the team and it does lengthen the line up. Kirk needs to be hitting way down in the line up when he is playing. Since July 1st of 2022 Kirk has a 91 wRC+, .297 wOBA .245/.327/.334 triple slash, he should likely be hitting 9th behind Varsho, KK and IKF.

 

 

Great post, agree with all this. There's no way the organization jumps the gun on changes unless the team goes on some epic losing streak.

 

It's wild to me how Alejandro lost 60 points off his SLG percentage from 2022 (541 PA) to 2023 (422 PA) and the trend just keeps worsening. It's not like he wasn't fat in 2022 - all of a sudden what modest pop he had has completely vanished. He was incredibly valuable when he was a strong defensive catcher that could hit ~15 homers and take ~60 walks. The rest of the league was wise to stay clear when the Jays were trying to trade him.

[glory]

I don't see any changes until at least June. I do think that Schneider needs to start playing Schneider in LF full time and treating KK, Schneider and Varsho as a bit of a platoon based on match ups. If someone has really good fastballs start KK over Schneider as an example. I do think this line up would look a better when Jansen is back with Jansen hitting 5th, Biggio 6th, Schneider 7th, Varsho 8th and IKF 9th that bottom half all of a sudden looks a lot better. Jansen is probably the best hitter on the team and it does lengthen the line up. Kirk needs to be hitting way down in the line up when he is playing. Since July 1st of 2022 Kirk has a 91 wRC+, .297 wOBA .245/.327/.334 triple slash, he should likely be hitting 9th behind Varsho, KK and IKF.

 

RF Springer

1B Vlad

SS Bichette

DH Turner

CA Jansen

2B Biggio

LF Schneider

3B IKF/Clement

CF Varsho/Kiermaier

 

Doesn’t look that bad. Put Barger at 3B over IKF in that scenario and it would give the team legitimate power threats in the bottom of the order rather than slap dick singles hitters from 6 through 9. I don’t see the team doing this unless forced to, though. A poor start can change a lot of things though.

[BigCecil]

RF Springer

1B Vlad

SS Bichette

DH Turner

CA Jansen

2B Biggio

LF Schneider

3B IKF/Clement

CF Varsho/Kiermaier

 

Doesn’t look that bad. Put Barger at 3B over IKF in that scenario and it would give the team legitimate power threats in the bottom of the order rather than slap dick singles hitters from 6 through 9. I don’t see the team doing this unless forced to, though. A poor start can change a lot of things though.

 

IKF off to a hot start playing solid D and 62 points over his career wRC+. More WAR than all of last season already.

 

He has been dubbed the "IF Kevin Pillar". I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts, because some deep valleys are ahead for him in 2024.

[tazsub3]

another loss another day closer to this!

 

Shame that tanking not a thing in mlb as a top pick dont have same fun as nhl nba or nfl....

 

So we cant even enjoy a tank for mathews or a tank for wemby type of season.

Edited April 27, 2024 by tazsub3

[Masterbather]

Honestly, f*** this front office and f*** their nut huggers. We keep watching more and more organizations pass us by.

 

Mediocre major league team, thin minor league system and 0 playoff success. Not only 0 playoff success but playoff embarrassment.

[James Key]

It has to be nigh for this group. John Schneider can go. Atkins can go. And Shapiro can go The teoscar Hernandez comments are telling. This org is poorly led from the top down. We should be the dodgers north but they keep hiring execs and their guys without any resume to back it up. AA is laughing at us with our situation.

[TorontonianJD]

It has to be nigh for this group. John Schneider can go. Atkins can go. And Shapiro can go The teoscar Hernandez comments are telling. This org is poorly led from the top down. We should be the dodgers north but they keep hiring execs and their guys without any resume to back it up. AA is laughing at us with our situation.

 

What did Teoscar say?

[James Key]

He was referencing how the past two teams he played for don’t nearly game plan the same way the dodgers do. Sounds like a country club up here if you squint hard enough.

[G-Snarls]

I'd say the window's sash is broken and there's a cracked dusty old copy of A Tale Of Two Cities holding it up

[Ray]

Shapiro needs to stay on. His track record in swaying ownership to make necessary investments both in team payroll and infrastructure like the stadium renos and player development complex speaks for itself.

 

I can see a strong case made for having a new voice leading baseball ops though. Someone like James Click who knows what it looks like to lead cutting-edge orgs like Ray and Astros. I'm not sure I see Atkins being fired since Shapiro and him seem joined at the hip. Maybe he'll step down or get shuffled to another position (his contract doesn't expire until end of the 2026 season).

[keggy]

Shapiro needs to stay on. His track record in swaying ownership to make necessary investments both in team payroll and infrastructure like the stadium renos and player development complex speaks for itself.

 

I can see a strong case made for having a new voice leading baseball ops though. Someone like James Click who knows what it looks like to lead cutting-edge orgs like Ray and Astros. I'm not sure I see Atkins being fired since Shapiro and him seem joined at the hip. Maybe he'll step down or get shuffled to another position (his contract doesn't expire until end of the 2026 season).

 

The single most important personnel decision the team president can make is GM. His two major moves in nearly 10 years was to quiet fire Anthopoulos and to hire and retain Atkins for all this time.

 

Is Shapiro really that much of a business genius that he can't be replaced by someone with better judgement on key personnel?