Around Baseball 2024

[Brock Beauchamp]

You would think Atkins would realize at this point that it isn’t just about money. No player wants to lock into 5+ years when none of the core is signed long term. Trapping themselves into mediocrity isn’t the goal when the money is similar.

 

I mean, maybe? But ultimately, I think it mostly comes down to money and terms. I haven't been embedded with the Jays like the rest of you have but it feels like Toronto is always "in the running" until actual dollar numbers come out.

 

And on an individual case basis, that's not the worst thing in the world. It only becomes a problem when the almighty dollar becomes more important than signing literally *anyone*.

 

If the Jays aren't going to make good enough offers to land anyone, it feels like a reboot is in order. Scuffling through mediocrity in this division will only lead to disappointment.

[jaysblue]

"One of the best players who was non-tendered this offseason, Austin Hays struggled after going from the Orioles to the Phillies at the trade deadline, but he has a solid track record of production. He posted a 109 OPS+ and averaged 32 doubles, 18 home runs, 66 RBI and 2.7 WAR in the three years leading up to the 2024 campaign, and he was an All-Star in 2023. He hit .354/.405/.537 in 90 plate appearances against left-handed pitching in 2024, and he has a .800 OPS for his career against southpaws, so if nothing else, he holds significant platoon appeal."

 

There's so few bats left on the market who have that kind of upside. He's still fairly young, his 2024 was explainable by serious illness and he fields a position (LF) we have open. It seems like a no brainer at this point, likely one of the cheapest potential sources of above average offense.

 

Blue Jays will come in second.

[max silver]

"One of the best players who was non-tendered this offseason, Austin Hays struggled after going from the Orioles to the Phillies at the trade deadline, but he has a solid track record of production. He posted a 109 OPS+ and averaged 32 doubles, 18 home runs, 66 RBI and 2.7 WAR in the three years leading up to the 2024 campaign, and he was an All-Star in 2023. He hit .354/.405/.537 in 90 plate appearances against left-handed pitching in 2024, and he has a .800 OPS for his career against southpaws, so if nothing else, he holds significant platoon appeal."

 

There's so few bats left on the market who have that kind of upside. He's still fairly young, his 2024 was explainable by serious illness and he fields a position (LF) we have open. It seems like a no brainer at this point, likely one of the cheapest potential sources of above average offense.

 

The Blue Jays outfield players and prospects are primarily left handed so a guy like Hays makes a ton of sense. The team hasn't really had a right handed lefty masher in recent seasons after trading Gurriel and Teoscar away and this is something that's been missing.

[Pendleton]

The Blue Jays outfield players and prospects are primarily left handed so a guy like Hays makes a ton of sense. The team hasn't really had a right handed lefty masher in recent seasons after trading Gurriel and Teoscar away and this is something that's been missing.

 

Grichuk is another FA who fits the profile, one of the top lefty mashers in baseball last year

[max silver]

Grichuk is another FA who fits the profile, one of the top lefty mashers in baseball last year

 

Yeah he's another guy who could fit as he's still a pretty solid defender and is a great 4th outfielder. Compounding matters for the Blue Jays is the fact that Springer was horrible against LHP last season (74 wRC+). Having all of Varsho, Kiermaier and Springer needing to be shielded against tough lefties made it impossible for the team to receive favorable matchups at times.

[Jonn]

Grichuk is another FA who fits the profile, one of the top lefty mashers in baseball last year

 

Absolutely not. Never want to see him try to hit a Baseball again unless it’s for another team.

 

 

Besides why would he sign back here considering he was salary dumped onto the Rockies. He can’t think favourly of that situation.

[Jays24]

I wonder how many players have had their decision impacted by the fact that the GM is Ross Atkins. Imagine trying to work out a deal with this talking Linked-In page. I think we’re at like half a dozen Jays players who have openly shown contempt for him now? Dude is a ****ing loser.

 

Pretty sure our entire 2015 team hated his guts too but time went by so it's probably nothing now lol

[Carlos Danger]

Yeah he's another guy who could fit as he's still a pretty solid defender and is a great 4th outfielder. Compounding matters for the Blue Jays is the fact that Springer was horrible against LHP last season (74 wRC+). Having all of Varsho, Kiermaier and Springer needing to be shielded against tough lefties made it impossible for the team to receive favorable matchups at times.

 

His D sucked when he was with the Jays the last year or two. I want my 4th OF to be plus D. Plus the streakiness and high Ks. Literally only get a half season out of him.

[max silver]

Absolutely not. Never want to see him try to hit a Baseball again unless it’s for another team.

 

 

Besides why would he sign back here considering he was salary dumped onto the Rockies. He can’t think favourly of that situation.

 

Grichuk is far from exciting but he would fill a role that's needed on the Blue Jays. They were 25th in MLB against left handed pitching with an 88 wRC+. Grichuk has a career 121 wRC+ against left handed pitching and has managed 151 and 157 wRC+ outputs the last two seasons. He's a quality 4th outfielder type of player on a team that has little in the way of right handed outfielders on the roster or upper minors as nearly all of the better prospects are left handed hitters.

[max silver]

His D sucked when he was with the Jays the last year or two. I want my 4th OF to be plus D.

 

Yeah he's not great in center field at this point of his career but he still appears to be approximately average in right field.

[Jays24]

LOL look at the name we started the off-season talking about to where we are now, it says everything.

 

Shatkins, trade Vlad/Bo to start the rebuild because you ****ed up this window of contention and hopefully be barred from any baseball operations for the rest of your lives. Go become an architect or something lol.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Jays24

[Terminator]

So for starting pitchers it looks like Flaherty and Pivetta are the two best remaining FAs? Then you've got a drop off to the old guys (Scherzer, Verlander, Lance Lynn).

[Spanky__99]

Dodgers with the estimated $352 million LTP

 

1.025B in deferrals.

[jaysblue]

So for starting pitchers it looks like Flaherty and Pivetta are the two best remaining FAs? Then you've got a drop off to the old guys (Scherzer, Verlander, Lance Lynn).

 

I really don't see any of those arms signing here. Flaherty and Pivetta will require a big financial commitment and even still doubt they would want to sign here given the uncertainty of this organization after 2025. Scherzer or Verlander definitely not and probably want to pitch close to home. Maybe Lynn on a one-year deal, but even still I bet he would rather pitch somewhere down in the States.

 

The only guys I could see them signing are maybe Jose Quintana or Martin Perez or Cal Quantrill since they are still likely to be available come mid-to-end January and would sign a one-year deal anywhere for $8-10M.

[jaysblue]

LOL look at the name we started the off-season talking about to where we are now, it says everything.

 

Shatkins, trade Vlad/Bo because you ****ed up this window of contention and hopefully be barred from any baseball operations for the rest of your lives. Go become an architect or something lol.

 

Its deja vu like last offseason.

 

This season we started with names like Soto and then Fried and Burnes and then Teo. The FA market is starting to dry up. According to most reports, the Jays have always been second or third lol. So that tells me something: most top FA's are worried about the future of this organization after 2025 given both Vladdy & Bo are likely gone and also Shapiro/Atkins likely are gone/walk away after as well. There is a lot of uncertainty and as an elite FA, would definitely have a lot of questions and concerns about signing a long term contract in Toronto. Therefore if it's close, they're choosing the other teams. Only way Jays could sign these top FA's is outbidding the other teams significantly, which I don't think they have been willing to do.

[Jays24]

The good thing is that I didn't think this team needed a front end starter to begin the off-season. We definitely need 1 guy to slot in the rotation but I'm okay with getting the best "buy low" signing with hopes of him outperforming the deal.

 

Now where I have 0 leeway is the Vlad/Bo contract situations (trade or re-sign), needing 2 big bats to in our top 4 in addition to Bo/Vlad and also a top notch closer. Either contend by filling those holes or rebuild!!

[Pendleton]

I really don't see any of those arms signing here. Flaherty and Pivetta will require a big financial commitment and even still doubt they would want to sign here given the uncertainty of this organization after 2025. Scherzer or Verlander definitely not and probably want to pitch close to home. Maybe Lynn on a one-year deal, but even still I bet he would rather pitch somewhere down in the States.

 

The only guys I could see them signing are maybe Jose Quintana or Martin Perez or Cal Quantrill since they are still likely to be available come mid-to-end January and would sign a one-year deal anywhere for $8-10M.

 

Flaherty having resurrected his value after a one year deal last off season, is probably the last type of guy who should be leaving money on the table. Meaning our approach of offering the biggest bag could perhaps finally work out.

 

I wanted to sign him last off season and I still think it would be a decent gamble this year based on how the market has played out. He'll go for roughly mid rotation type money by today's standards, but can continue pitching like a frontline guy

[Brownie19]

You would think Atkins would realize at this point that it isn’t just about money. No player wants to lock into 5+ years when none of the core is signed long term. Trapping themselves into mediocrity isn’t the goal when the money is similar.

 

So they are stupid for trying to sign him?

[Jays24]

Its deja vu like last offseason.

 

This season we started with names like Soto and then Fried and Burnes and then Teo. The FA market is starting to dry up. According to most reports, the Jays have always been second or third lol. So that tells me something: most top FA's are worried about the future of this organization after 2025 given both Vladdy & Bo are likely gone and also Shapiro/Atkins likely are gone/walk away after as well. There is a lot of uncertainty and as an elite FA, would definitely have a lot of questions and concerns about signing a long term contract in Toronto. Therefore if it's close, they're choosing the other teams. Only way Jays could sign these top FA's is outbidding the other teams significantly, which I don't think they have been willing to do.

 

Exactly... it's actually common sense that any free agent we try to speak to would ask "how are you trying to sell me long term when you (the management) and our best players (Bo/Vlad) can all not be here starting next year."

 

This is where I put all the blame on Rogers for ****ing us in the most important off-season. Atkins needed to be fired after the Berrios fiasco and Shapiro needed to be fired before this off-season started. This would have given the new management the ability to negotiate with Vlad/Bo with a fresh outlook from both sides and also the ability to sell free agents long term to our team.

[Jays24]

So they are stupid for trying to sign him?

 

Nope, they are stupid for creating the environment where it would seem dumb for any big free agent to sign here longterm in our current situation

[jaysblue]

So they are stupid for trying to sign him?

 

No, he's criticizing Atkins and the front office for creating this situation. You continue to wear blinders.

[jaysblue]

Nope, they are stupid for creating the environment where it would seem dumb for any big free agent to sign here in our current situation

 

He's wearing blinders when it comes to Atkins and this front office. It's getting really sad that he's going down with the ship defending this front office right to the very end with excuses after excuses.

[Jays24]

No, he's criticizing Atkins and the front office for creating this situation. You continue to wear blinders.

 

It's so funny that the same Shatkins stans have the same responses to people's criticisms. They must be on the Jays payroll because they can't be this blind can they lol.

[jaysblue]

Exactly... it's actually common sense that any free agent we try to speak to would ask "how are you trying to sell me long term when you (the management) and our best players (Bo/Vlad) can all not be here starting next year."

 

This is where I put all the blame on Rogers for ****ing us in the most important off-season. Atkins needed to be fired after the Berrios fiasco and Shapiro needed to be fired before this off-season started. This would have given the new management the ability to negotiate with Vlad/Bo with a fresh outlook from both sides and also the ability to sell free agents long term to our team.

 

Yeah definitely can place the blame on Rogers and Shapiro as well.

 

It's common sense that any top FA is asking these questions when it comes to considering the Blue Jays. What is the future outlook? What is going on with Vladdy and Bo? What is the farm system like? How long will a rebuild/retool be? Who is going to be the President and GM after 2025? There is a lot of uncertainty right now and that has been the biggest issue. All are to blame: Rogers, Shapiro, Atkins for creating this disaster. There is no clear plan or direction with this organization at the moment. Currently it's in limbo.

[jaysblue]

Flaherty having resurrected his value after a one year deal last off season, is probably the last type of guy who should be leaving money on the table. Meaning our approach of offering the biggest bag could perhaps finally work out.

 

I wanted to sign him last off season and I still think it would be a decent gamble this year based on how the market has played out. He'll go for roughly mid rotation type money by today's standards, but can continue pitching like a frontline guy

 

If he goes for mid-rotation type money, what makes you think other teams aren't going to be in on him?

 

I would love to see the Jays sign Flaherty as well. Give him a similar contract to Gausman and maybe include an opt-out. I just don't see it happening however.

[Brownie19]

Let me guess - more strawman arguments? LOL. lOL. LOL

[BTS]

Flaherty having resurrected his value after a one year deal last off season, is probably the last type of guy who should be leaving money on the table. Meaning our approach of offering the biggest bag could perhaps finally work out.

 

I wanted to sign him last off season and I still think it would be a decent gamble this year based on how the market has played out. He'll go for roughly mid rotation type money by today's standards, but can continue pitching like a frontline guy

 

Yeah. Flaherty is the guy who looks like he might fall through the cracks. There might be a team or two who don't see much daylight between him and Fried, and if that team is willing to do something like 5/120, they'll probably land him. We're at the point in free agency where there might be more players left than teams willing to spend 20M per year on them.

 

Flaherty needs a team that A) thinks he can repeat his 2024 is motivated to add to the top of the rotation, and C) has money to spend. If Toronto is the only team in that situation, there's no reason why they can't sign him.

 

Maybe Toronto thinks he sucks though.

Edited December 28, 2024 by BTS

[saskjayfan]

If he goes for mid-rotation type money, what makes you think other teams aren't going to be in on him?

 

I would love to see the Jays sign Flaherty as well. Give him a similar contract to Gausman and maybe include an opt-out. I just don't see it happening however.

 

Getting a starter shouldn't be our next move. Our bullpen is suspect and our offense is terrible. Even if a starter performs well he hands the ball off to a crap bullpen in tight games because our offense doesn't score runs.

 

I'm Ross. I have to win to keep my job. I may as well go down in flames. I'm trading for Yelich. 23.8 mil luxury tax hit. That would take us to the luxury tax. He just had back surgery. He has 4 years left. He's entering his decline years. That could be one of the worst trades in our history, or you have a guy who's finally pain free and a guy with elite talent. Even if that's the case the injury risk moving forward is still big. Loperfido, Barger, or Schneider a mid level prospect and taking on all or most of the contract might get it done. The brewers are cheap and might want to get out from under that contract. I'm in on JD Martinez for 1 year 8 mil. That's 8 mil into the luxury tax. If there's any money left I sign the best starter I can and or a bullpen piece. I don't think the budget extends past the 2nd luxury tax tier. It might not extend into the luxury tax at all, which would complicate things.

 

We need to fix the offense. Yelich and Martinez might not fix it at all, but the job is on the line and the upside of those 2 might be enough to win. If it doesn't work out Atkins is losing his job anyways.

[max silver]

Getting a starter shouldn't be our next move. Our bullpen is suspect and our offense is terrible. Even if a starter performs well he hands the ball off to a crap bullpen in tight games because our offense doesn't score runs.

 

I'm Ross. I have to win to keep my job. I may as well go down in flames. I'm trading for Yelich. 23.8 mil luxury tax hit. That would take us to the luxury tax. He just had back surgery. He has 4 years left. He's entering his decline years. That could be one of the worst trades in our history, or you have a guy who's finally pain free and a guy with elite talent. Even if that's the case the injury risk moving forward is still big. Loperfido, Barger, or Schneider a mid level prospect and taking on all or most of the contract might get it done. The brewers are cheap and might want to get out from under that contract. I'm in on JD Martinez for 1 year 8 mil. That's 8 mil into the luxury tax. If there's any money left I sign the best starter I can and or a bullpen piece. I don't think the budget extends past the 2nd luxury tax tier. It might not extend into the luxury tax at all, which would complicate things.

 

We need to fix the offense. Yelich and Martinez might not fix it at all, but the job is on the line and the upside of those 2 might be enough to win. If it doesn't work out Atkins is losing his job anyways.

 

I'm cool with signing a starter, but he needs to at least be better than the in house options in order to push Rodriguez to the pen. That could improve the team in two areas at once. I think the only free agent starters worth acquiring are Pivetta and Flaherty though so there aren't a ton of options available.

[Nexii]

For the same money as a top end starter we could get 2-3 relievers though. I think I'd rather have several relievers. Other than Garcia everyone is replacement level at best