Around Baseball 2024

[Laika]

This seems sloppy

 

this is weird

 

so they don't save any money? they are just releasing him so he can find a starting role somewhere? at league minimum?

[max silver]

This seems sloppy

 

Seems like they are skirting the rules as Davis had a 232 wRC+ in spring play as of this morning.

[BTS]

this is weird

 

so they don't save any money? they are just releasing him so he can find a starting role somewhere? at league minimum?

 

Sounds like they'll only have to give him 30 days pay if they can demonstrate that he's "failed to demonstrate sufficient skill or competitive ability", whatever that means.

[Terminator]

I think the "demonstrate sufficient skill or competitive ability" is editorial comment added by mlbtraderumors.com. It probably does say that in the CBA but mlbtraderumors might be overplaying it or misapplying it. I suppose this could turn into a fight still but the Giants don't consider it to be too much of a problem.

 

Here is the original article: https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/jd-davis-released/1711634/

[Laika]

Sounds like they'll only have to give him 30 days pay if they can demonstrate that he's "failed to demonstrate sufficient skill or competitive ability", whatever that means.

 

That's weird

 

I wonder if they have to make an argument to the commissioner or something

[Laika]

ARTICLE IX—Termination Pay

A. Off-Season

A Player who is tendered a Uniform Player’s Contract which is subsequently

terminated by a Club during the period between the end of the

championship season and the beginning of the next succeeding Spring

Training under paragraph 7((2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for

failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability shall be entitled

to receive termination pay from the Club in an amount equal to thirty

(30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of (1) his Con

tract for the next succeeding championship season, or (2) if he has no

contract for the next succeeding championship season, in an amount

equal to thirty (30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2

of the Contract tendered to him by his Club for the next succeeding

championship season.

 

 

^ that is the provision from the CBA

I dunno. sometimes lawyers just push for certain language that appears beneficial to their side of things, without a specific reason. Like, the MLBPA might have wanted this "for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" language added this time through the CBA even if they weren't sure how or if it would ever help. Because it doesn't HURT the players. Does it give a player, arguably, the right to grieve the salary entitlement? Who knows.

[John_Havok]

That's weird

 

I wonder if they have to make an argument to the commissioner or something

 

It’s not quite that simple. The team can release him for whatever reason they choose to under the mlb uniform player contract, the issue of 30 days of termination pay or 45 days is based on the timing, and the fact that he went to arbitration for his contract vs agreeing to a contract amount without a hearing.

 

How many guys get DFA towards the end of a season as clear cost cutting measures when their performance is still perfectly okay, and the team releasing them hopes they get claimed?

 

It’s the same thing happening here, just in ST rather than the end of the season and termination pay is set up differently in this case under the new CBA

[John_Havok]

ARTICLE IX—Termination Pay

A. Off-Season

A Player who is tendered a Uniform Player’s Contract which is subsequently

terminated by a Club during the period between the end of the

championship season and the beginning of the next succeeding Spring

Training under paragraph 7((2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for

failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability shall be entitled

to receive termination pay from the Club in an amount equal to thirty

(30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of (1) his Con

tract for the next succeeding championship season, or (2) if he has no

contract for the next succeeding championship season, in an amount

equal to thirty (30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2

of the Contract tendered to him by his Club for the next succeeding

championship season.

 

 

^ that is the provision from the CBA

I dunno. sometimes lawyers just push for certain language that appears beneficial to their side of things, without a specific reason. Like, the MLBPA might have wanted this "for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" language added this time through the CBA even if they weren't sure how or if it would ever help. Because it doesn't HURT the players. Does it give a player, arguably, the right to grieve the salary entitlement? Who knows.

 

The “sufficient skill or competitive ability” language been in the uniform player contracts and CBA for a long time, you can find the same wording present in contracts going back decades.

[Laika]

It’s not quite that simple. The team can release him for whatever reason they choose to under the mlb uniform player contract, the issue of 30 days of termination pay or 45 days is based on the timing, and the fact that he went to arbitration for his contract vs agreeing to a contract amount without a hearing.

 

How many guys get DFA towards the end of a season as clear cost cutting measures when their performance is still perfectly okay, and the team releasing them hopes they get claimed?

 

It’s the same thing happening here, just in ST rather than the end of the season and termination pay is set up differently in this case under the new CBA

 

No the point here is that this language

 

"for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability"

 

appears to be new in this CBA. Someone thought it mattered. I wonder why.

[Laika]

The sufficient skill os competitive ability language been in the uniform player contracts and CBA for a long time, you can find the same wording present in contracts going back decades.

 

Ah ok. Then MLBTR is wrong. And that clears it up.

[Laika]

I guess in any case

 

"you are worse than Matt Chapman"

 

can be justified as failing to demonstrate sufficient skill. Should been better than Chatt Mapman, bro.

[John_Havok]

Ah ok. Then MLBTR is wrong. And that clears it up.

 

Yeah, just google “ mlb uniform player contract” and you can find example from 2011 that has that language.

 

The changes in the new CBA were all about the timing of when the player gets terminated using that clause and whether the player when to arb hearing or not

[John_Havok]

I guess in any case

 

"you are worse than Matt Chapman"

 

can be justified as failing to demonstrate sufficient skill. Should been better than Chatt Mapman, bro.

 

It can because the full wording the contract says they can be terminated if the Player at any time …….

 

“Fails, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team…”

[John_Havok]

I guess in any case

 

"you are worse than Matt Chapman"

 

can be justified as failing to demonstrate sufficient skill. Should been better than Chatt Mapman, bro.

 

Side note, I’d love to see how a case where a player challenges this and asks how they can form the opinion that he fails to display “sufficient skill or competitive ability” when he’s tearing the cover off the ball on ST. It would be interesting to say the least.

[Stangstag]

Imagine winning your arb case just to get cut in ST while still smashing the baseball

[wilko]

Imagine winning your arb case just to get cut in ST while still smashing the baseball

 

Yeah that sucks.

[John_Havok]

Imagine winning your arb case just to get cut in ST while still smashing the baseball

 

And realizing that because you won your arb case you might earn far less than if you’d just accepted the teams offer and not gone to a hearing, you’d be guaranteed the whole amount even if cut while smashing the baseball.

 

It’s like two kicks in the nuts rather than just one.

[Terminator]

Imagine wanting JD Davis so you can play this guy less:

 

[wilko]

Imagine wanting JD Davis so you can play this guy less:

 

 

plz update avatar picture to below:

 

[Laika]

Never forget

 

Toronto had Clement and Schneider at the end of 2023

 

And chose to die with Biggio and Merrifield instead.

[Stangstag]

Never forget

 

Toronto had Clement and Schneider at the end of 2023

 

And chose to die with Biggio and Merrifield instead.

 

Yep. Could’ve made a difference. 1 run scored in 2 playoff games… a basehit by KK. And those two never got an at bat.

[Stangstag]

Imagine wanting JD Davis so you can play this guy less:

 

 

I think most of us want JD to take Espinal’s spot on the roster

[max silver]

Never forget

 

Toronto had Clement and Schneider at the end of 2023

 

And chose to die with Biggio and Merrifield instead.

 

One of these dudes put up a 128 wRC+ in September and 124 wRC+ in the second half so maybe he doesn't really compare to the 25 wRC+ September and 77 wRC+ second half numbers the other dude produced.

[Terminator]

I think most of us want JD to take Espinal’s spot on the roster

 

Still means less playing time for Ernie Clement.

[Stangstag]

Still means less playing time for Ernie Clement.

 

If you think Ernie Clement is going to get more playtime than Espinal you are sorely mistaken.

[Pendleton]

The two pitchers Seattle acquired for Kelenic both will have TJS

[Spanky__99]

If you think Ernie Clement is going to get more playtime than Espinal you are sorely mistaken.

 

Huh, I don't even think Espy makes the squad, either traded or optioned.

[Terminator]

If you think Ernie Clement is going to get more playtime than Espinal you are sorely mistaken.

 

Pretty sure that Espinal is on the outside looking in right now. He has an option and Clement doesn't and Clement has made himself interesting enough that they aren't going to lose him for nothing just so they can keep Espinal on the big league team.

[L54]

99 is massive gains though, no? During that Barstool video, he's throwing 95, weird.

 

Thinking he took a little off so he didn’t kill that guy on accident. Not sure 🤷*♂️

[max silver]

If you think Ernie Clement is going to get more playtime than Espinal you are sorely mistaken.

 

It seems pretty unlikely that both guys will make the team seeing as they would fill the same role.