Around Baseball 2024

[Terminator]

Urshela gets 1 year 1.5M lmao

 

IKF deal looking pretty ridiculous

 

You could explain away the other ones like Rosario or Anderson as the SS opportunities they got are a lot different than the ones they would have gotten in TO.

 

But IKF over Urshela for 1.5M can’t really be defended.

[G-Snarls]

You could explain away the other ones like Rosario or Anderson as the SS opportunities they got are a lot different than the ones they would have gotten in TO.

 

But IKF over Urshela for 1.5M can’t really be defended.

 

We signed the wrong ex Yankee

[BTS]

You could explain away the other ones like Rosario or Anderson as the SS opportunities they got are a lot different than the ones they would have gotten in TO.

 

But IKF over Urshela for 1.5M can’t really be defended.

 

They could have paid Urshela 3x what he got and it would still look better than 2/15 for IKF

[Laika]

I'm honestly surprised Atkins still has a job but does he survive if we miss the playoffs or don't win a single playoff game again?

 

Paying IKF $7.5M instead of $3M or whatever will have no influence on his job security

 

But to answer the question... I kind of doubt that he keeps his job if the Jays flop this year

[glory]

Urshela is a better comp to IKF than Anderson/Rosario.

 

Yeah, Ross f***ed up.

[Laika]

I can still defend IKF. I'll do anything for Ross. Here is the case for Falaffle:

 

IKF @ 3B

1207 career innings (154 games), +19 DRS, +6.7 UZR, +22 OAA

 

Gio @ 3B

4620 career innings (585 games), +10 DRS, +13.5 UZR (+3.9 UZR/150), -18 OAA

 

Despite Gio Urshela being a native 3B with a good reputation, the difference in defensive talent might be massive. It could be as much as 10 runs or one full win over a complete MLB season. Keep in mind that these numbers are cumulative, so in one season of data IKF according to DRS has more defensive runs saved than Gio has done in nearly 4x the games. OAA agreeing with DRS is helpful for confidence in IKF's defense. OAA hating Urshela is interesting.

 

Other factors:

 

Career BsR, 0.1 for IKF and -23.4 for Gio

Age: 28 y 10m for IKF vs 32 y 4m for Gio

Career walk and K rates: slight edge for IKF

 

2023 maxEV: 106.1 for Gio, 109.6 for IKF

2023 xwOBA: .288 for Gio and .292 for IKF

2023 hard hit rate: much higher for IKF

 

 

Of course, Urshela does have better 2024 projections and has hit for much more power in his career.

 

That being said, it seems like a reasonable prospect that Gio Urshela is just completely cooked as an old, slow, fat 3B with declining defense (that OAA has never liked) and power that dried up completely in 2023.

 

IKF on the other hand is young, agile, fertile, flexing his muscles, hitting for more power, discovering how to barrel the ball, blossoming into a divine lotus of limitless defensive prowess at his new fulltime position of third base. His upside is palpable. He's a throbbing vessel of flesh and talent, waiting to escape the soul-sucking curses of New York. He's been focusing on yanking barrels in the air all offseason and he is ready to unlock his Bregman-eqsue potential. In three months you will be thanking Ross for GETTING that second year of control.

[wilko]

I can still defend IKF. I'll do anything for Ross. Here is the case for Falaffle:

 

IKF @ 3B

1207 career innings (154 games), +19 DRS, +6.7 UZR, +22 OAA

 

Gio @ 3B

4620 career innings (585 games), +10 DRS, +13.5 UZR (+3.9 UZR/150), -18 OAA

 

Despite Gio Urshela being a native 3B with a good reputation, the difference in defensive talent might be massive. It could be as much as 10 runs or one full win over a complete MLB season. Keep in mind that these numbers are cumulative, so in one season of data IKF according to DRS has more defensive runs saved than Gio has done in nearly 4x the games. OAA agreeing with DRS is helpful for confidence in IKF's defense. OAA hating Urshela is interesting.

 

Other factors:

 

Career BsR, 0.1 for IKF and -23.4 for Gio

Age: 28 y 10m for IKF vs 32 y 4m for Gio

Career walk and K rates: slight edge for IKF

 

2023 maxEV: 106.1 for Gio, 109.6 for IKF

2023 xwOBA: .288 for Gio and .292 for IKF

2023 hard hit rate: much higher for IKF

 

 

Of course, Urshela does have better 2024 projections and has hit for much more power in his career.

 

That being said, it seems like a reasonable prospect that Gio Urshela is just completely cooked as an old, slow, fat 3B with declining defense (that OAA has never liked) and power that dried up completely in 2023.

 

IKF on the other hand is young, agile, fertile, flexing his muscles, hitting for more power, discovering how to barrel the ball, blossoming into a divine lotus of limitless defensive prowess at his new fulltime position of third base. His upside is palpable. He's a throbbing vessel of flesh and talent, waiting to escape the soul-sucking curses of New York. He's been focusing on yanking barrels in the air all offseason and he is ready to unlock his Bregman-eqsue potential. In three months you will be thanking Ross for GETTING that second year of control.

 

Interesting.

[Terminator]

I can still defend IKF. I'll do anything for Ross. Here is the case for Falaffle:

 

IKF @ 3B

1207 career innings (154 games), +19 DRS, +6.7 UZR, +22 OAA

 

Gio @ 3B

4620 career innings (585 games), +10 DRS, +13.5 UZR (+3.9 UZR/150), -18 OAA

 

Despite Gio Urshela being a native 3B with a good reputation, the difference in defensive talent might be massive. It could be as much as 10 runs or one full win over a complete MLB season. Keep in mind that these numbers are cumulative, so in one season of data IKF according to DRS has more defensive runs saved than Gio has done in nearly 4x the games. OAA agreeing with DRS is helpful for confidence in IKF's defense. OAA hating Urshela is interesting.

 

Other factors:

 

Career BsR, 0.1 for IKF and -23.4 for Gio

Age: 28 y 10m for IKF vs 32 y 4m for Gio

Career walk and K rates: slight edge for IKF

 

2023 maxEV: 106.1 for Gio, 109.6 for IKF

2023 xwOBA: .288 for Gio and .292 for IKF

2023 hard hit rate: much higher for IKF

 

 

Of course, Urshela does have better 2024 projections and has hit for much more power in his career.

 

That being said, it seems like a reasonable prospect that Gio Urshela is just completely cooked as an old, slow, fat 3B with declining defense (that OAA has never liked) and power that dried up completely in 2023.

 

IKF on the other hand is young, agile, fertile, flexing his muscles, hitting for more power, discovering how to barrel the ball, blossoming into a divine lotus of limitless defensive prowess at his new fulltime position of third base. His upside is palpable. He's a throbbing vessel of flesh and talent, waiting to escape the soul-sucking curses of New York. He's been focusing on yanking barrels in the air all offseason and he is ready to unlock his Bregman-eqsue potential. In three months you will be thanking Ross for GETTING that second year of control.

 

Wow!

[Abomination]

Urshela gets 1 year 1.5M lmao

 

IKF deal looking pretty ridiculous

 

It looked ridiculous when it was signed and it isn't getting any better. Regardless, the biggest issue is if he's starting. If he's on the bench, he's probably worth the money in that role.

[Terminator]

Maybe we can still get a smoking cheap deal on Pham or something.

[Jimcanuck]

It looked ridiculous when it was signed and it isn't getting any better. Regardless, the biggest issue is if he's starting. If he's on the bench, he's probably worth the money in that role.

 

he's not a negative asset, the more he plays the higher the ROI

 

he's suited for the bench, but that requires a better 3B option

 

the IFK signing is probably both as a bench bat and insurance if the Jays strike out on Chapman or other 3B option

[Jays24]

he's not a negative asset, the more he plays the higher the ROI

 

he's suited for the bench, but that requires a better 3B option

 

the IFK signing is probably both as a bench bat and insurance if the Jays strike out on Chapman or other 3B option

 

Isn't this true about practically every single player? I think Jays fans are scared that the more he plays, the more it probably means we suck lol

[Stangstag]

You could explain away the other ones like Rosario or Anderson as the SS opportunities they got are a lot different than the ones they would have gotten in TO.

 

But IKF over Urshela for 1.5M can’t really be defended.

 

The only way it’s defensible is if IKF somehow puts up a 3 WAR season. But that’s an extreme long shot

[Jimcanuck]

Isn't this true about practically every single player? I think Jays fans are scared that the more he plays, the more it probably means we suck lol

 

Yes and that is why I responded to Abom's post

[max silver]

The only way it’s defensible is if IKF somehow puts up a 3 WAR season. But that’s an extreme long shot

 

A 2 win season for $7.5 million would be perfectly acceptable (only averages $3.75 million per win), the dude isn't being paid $15-20 million after all so the bar for success is accordingly much lower.

[Stangstag]

Ross got major tunnel vision on the whole run prevention thing after 2022, to the detriment of everything else.

 

The only puzzling thing is that we still have Vlad and Bo as everyday players when they are definitely the weakest defenders on the roster.

 

Could’ve traded Bo and Vlad for a haul and replaced them with Tim Anderson and Cody Bellinger + money to add elsewhere

[max silver]

Isn't this true about practically every single player? I think Jays fans are scared that the more he plays, the more it probably means we suck lol

 

Or conversely Kiner Falefa plays well and earns more playing time. Given how much competition there is for the third base position I don't see how he's going to receive unlimited rope if he largely struggles at the plate.

[Stangstag]

A 2 win season for $7.5 million would be perfectly acceptable (only averages $3.75 million per win), the dude isn't being paid $15-20 million after all so the bar for success is accordingly much lower.

 

Sure, but my argument is that guys like Urshela and Rosario probably give you 2 WAR for less than 1/4 of the cost. Plus an extra guaranteed year

[Laika]

Tim Anderson + Gio Urshela + Amed Rosario combined 2023 fWAR = 0.1 wins

 

Falaffle was twice as good as all three of them put together...

 

[Stangstag]

Tim Anderson + Gio Urshela + Amed Rosario combined 2023 fWAR = 0.1 wins

 

 

Doubt that. Unless there’s injuries involved

[Orgfiller]

Urshela is also coming back from major injury that ended his season around the halfway mark. That's as big a question mark as any and likely the main reason for the contract he got, considering the track record.

[Jimcanuck]

Biggio might be a better defensive 3B than Rosario

 

Only thing one can say is Ross overpaid IKF by a couple of Mill

[Laika]

Doubt that. Unless there’s injuries involved

 

it's a fact!

[Laika]

Maybe we can still get a smoking cheap deal on Pham or something.

 

Ross is content to let other teams get all the good deals

 

Remember, additions at this point will require subtractions!

[wilko]

Ross is content to let other teams get all the good deals

 

Remember, additions at this point will require subtractions!

 

[deanmike]

Ross is content to let other teams get all the good deals

 

Remember, additions at this point will require subtractions!

 

Maybe this wouldn't be the case with Urshela at 1.5M AAV instead of IKF at 7.5M

[Jimcanuck]

Maybe we can still get a smoking cheap deal on Pham or something.

 

Cubbies signed Peralta yesterday. All signs point to Belly to the Jays.

[deanmike]

I can still defend IKF. I'll do anything for Ross. Here is the case for Falaffle:

 

IKF @ 3B

1207 career innings (154 games), +19 DRS, +6.7 UZR, +22 OAA

 

Gio @ 3B

4620 career innings (585 games), +10 DRS, +13.5 UZR (+3.9 UZR/150), -18 OAA

 

Despite Gio Urshela being a native 3B with a good reputation, the difference in defensive talent might be massive. It could be as much as 10 runs or one full win over a complete MLB season. Keep in mind that these numbers are cumulative, so in one season of data IKF according to DRS has more defensive runs saved than Gio has done in nearly 4x the games. OAA agreeing with DRS is helpful for confidence in IKF's defense. OAA hating Urshela is interesting.

 

Other factors:

 

Career BsR, 0.1 for IKF and -23.4 for Gio

Age: 28 y 10m for IKF vs 32 y 4m for Gio

Career walk and K rates: slight edge for IKF

 

2023 maxEV: 106.1 for Gio, 109.6 for IKF

2023 xwOBA: .288 for Gio and .292 for IKF

2023 hard hit rate: much higher for IKF

 

 

Of course, Urshela does have better 2024 projections and has hit for much more power in his career.

 

That being said, it seems like a reasonable prospect that Gio Urshela is just completely cooked as an old, slow, fat 3B with declining defense (that OAA has never liked) and power that dried up completely in 2023.

 

IKF on the other hand is young, agile, fertile, flexing his muscles, hitting for more power, discovering how to barrel the ball, blossoming into a divine lotus of limitless defensive prowess at his new fulltime position of third base. His upside is palpable. He's a throbbing vessel of flesh and talent, waiting to escape the soul-sucking curses of New York. He's been focusing on yanking barrels in the air all offseason and he is ready to unlock his Bregman-eqsue potential. In three months you will be thanking Ross for GETTING that second year of control.

 

This garbage Kool Aid post is missing the significant difference in AAV

[Laika]

Maybe this wouldn't be the case with Urshela at 1.5M AAV instead of IKF at 7.5M

 

It simply DOES NO MATTER.

 

ALL ADDITIONS REQUIRE SUBSTRACTIONS.

 

THIS IS THE WAY IT IS IN FEBRUARY

[Laika]

This garbage Kool Aid post is missing the significant difference in AAV

 

Doesn't really matter, mate. Saving $6M doesn't get you very far when you get a replacement level player for less money.