2023 Post-Mortem Thread

[TheHurl]

Berrios had three Ks in his last complete inning. You don't have worry about ground balls finding a hole when the batters can't hit the ball.

 

And how many Ks does he get facing a LHH a second time? Again your theory is that Berrios comes out of that inning clean. He just walked one guy. So if he doesn't come out clean the Twins have all the matchups in their favour. The game plan was to hold the Twins to not a lot of runs...and beat their pen with our hitters. We know what part of the game plan failed

[Jimcanuck]

1) Players who choke in the final two months of the season and post-season (Chapman and Merrified), likely won't be coming back.

2) Varsho is not as bad as everyone thinks. He is gonna break out next year.

3) We need a coach who can stand up to the players. That means putting in a pinch runner for Vladdy sometimes and putting in pinch hitters for struggling regulars (Chapman).

4) Upper management needs to be hands off the managers. Let them do their job without interference. They are the ones taking the heat.

5) Baseball isn't a battle of spreadsheets. Emotion can't be measured. Pulling a starter who is on fire, after three innings makes it seem like ChatGPT is running the team.

6) No reason Biggio can't take 2B next year and Schneider can't take 3B.

7) Merrifield, Chapman, Belt and Ryu are gone next year. Frees up some decent cash for a big hitter.

 

Bingo

[thatoneguy]

Vlad needs to f***ing go. Sick of his nonsensical attitude, lack of fitness, and peabrained approach to baseball.

[Jonn]

Leafs season starts next Wednesday! Go Leafs Go!

 

Nobody gives a f*** about the Leafs.

[TheHurl]

It didn't work.

 

We're talking about a 0-0 game in the 4th inning, not a 0-0 game in the 7th.

 

My question is even if the Jays won this game or heck won in extra innings, which arms would be available tomorrow?

 

Which arms would the Twins have available? I hated the fact that Bassitt might have to pitch a deciding game against the Twins. But to think the Jays would be at a huge pitching disadvantage because of this decision is an odd one

[Jimcanuck]

Vlad needs to f***ing go. Sick of his nonsensical attitude, lack of fitness, and peabrained approach to baseball.

 

I can get behind this. Then sign Bellinger.

[Steeljays]

It didnt work. Kikuchi came in and allowed Berrios' walk to score and allowed a run of his own. Those two runs were the difference in the game. It also completely changed the tone, feel and energy of the game. Berrios was bringing electricity. Everyone including the players I bet thought they had no chance to lose the way he was pitching. The way he got pulled so early was so deflating there is no way the players didn't feel it as well.

 

If the game plan was a short stint from Berrios then why not just let him finish the inning. kikuchi isn't a relief P. Bringing him in with guy on to me didn't make sense. That's a relievers position there if Berrios coming out

[RobinThicc]

Atkins is gonna Soler like 75 million

[Laika]

If the game plan was a short stint from Berrios then why not just let him finish the inning. kikuchi isn't a relief P. Bringing him in with guy on to me didn't make sense. That's a relievers position there if Berrios coming out

 

Yeah why not Mayza and then give Kikuchi a clean inning if you still need to turn around some LHB the next inning?

[tazsub3]

Atkins is gonna Soler like 75 million

 

Atikins will be looking for a new job then i hope

[hanton]

FA Merrifield

 

[Steeljays]

Yeah why not Mayza and then give Kikuchi a clean inning if you still need to turn around some LHB the next inning?

 

That's my point. Relievers are used to coming in with runners on. Not kuch

[bones10]

Yeah why not Mayza and then give Kikuchi a clean inning if you still need to turn around some LHB the next inning?

 

I was screaming this as it was developing, lol just stupidity all around.

[Laika]

FA Merrifield

 

 

This is why these decisions are probably bad IMO and it's what the nerds aren't putting in their models

 

If you make a jarring and unexpected decision it might f*** up the psyche of your own players

 

Also, the more obvious one is why assume Kikuchi would be great in an unfamiliar role...

[Daniel Labude]

FA Merrifield

 

 

He gone, but glad that he said it lol

[bones10]

Vlad sank this team all year long, don’t know where to go from here.

[Daniel Labude]

Trade Bo, Gausman, and Springer for JP Crawford

[Steeljays]

I can get behind this. Then sign Bellinger.

 

Go get Soto from SD

[Carlos Danger]

Trade Vlad for Soto, then sign Hoskins for 1B.

 

If they would go for it, it would be awesome...Just don't see the Padres going for it...I also like Hoskins at 1B.

[TheHurl]

Yeah why not Mayza and then give Kikuchi a clean inning if you still need to turn around some LHB the next inning?

 

That is an argument I can get behind. I also like the idea of Kikuchi starting and keeping their left handed bats out of the starting line up. Then go righty followed by Mayza completely neutralizing the LHH

[Jays333]

And how many times has a pitcher been rolling, until they are not. It did work. The Jays got the players out they wanted out. They didn't give up another run. They put in a pitcher that got ground balls.

 

You want to talk about bad game plans. Bringing Griffin Jax to face the same guys he faced yesterday. I don't care about results. That is a terrible decision. Kikuchi doing his job but the balls getting hits...that is baseball

 

ok it didnt work but if you want to believe Berrios was going to flame out and yield the same or similar results then go ahead and believe it lol

[Steeljays]

Sign Hicks and club option for Green. Give QO to chap so they can get a pick when he signs elsewhere. All others walk.

 

Varsho to CF unless atkins is fired. Go get Soto for LF

[John_Havok]

Bullpen:

Keep Romano, Green, Yimi, Swanson, Mayza, Cabrera, for the active roster. Cimber is a non tender, Parsons an obvious DFA. I’d try to trade Richards because he’s only 1 year left, he still has value but Romano, Mayza, Cabrera and Swanson need raises and I’d rather give his money to other guys. I’d really want to try and bring back Hicks but with the other guys getting raises I just don’t see it happening unless he takes a pretty significant discount. Still have open spots for guys like Pearson, Danner, Pop, Zulu, Francis (if he’s not in the rotation) and other guys not currently on the 40 man to fight over.

 

Green is a bit of a wildcard here as I don’t think I’d want him for 3 more years at 9, but he would definitely decline his option then, and then the Jays would owe him high AAV for only 2 years..or he walks. Best case really is if he takes his 1 year 6.25 option after the jays decline their first option. Doubt that happens, but it could if he feels like a good year can set him up for another multiyear deal for 2025 and beyond. But if something weird happens and green isn’t back, throw that money at Hicks.

 

White is another wildcard for the pen as I’m sure he’ll get a shot at a rotation spot if he’s still with the team given his late season successes at AAA. I’m not entirely sure if he’s a free agent or if he just becomes rule 5 eligible so I’ll withhold a full opinion until that is clarified.

 

Rotation:

4 names are set in stone unless a trade happens so the 5th spot right now is likely between Francis, Tiedemann(if they can manage innings effectively enough) Manoah (maybe?) the minor league guys and White depending on his status. There’s tons of back end starters in free agency this off-season too so #5 could possibly come from outside the org.

 

Lineup:

Goodbye Chapman, KK, Merrifield, Belt, Heineman, Eden. Jimenez, Lukes and Lopez could be DFA and lost but…whatever. Biggio stays as a bench guy. I think Horwitz gets a shot at being DH. Clement on the bench as I believe he is out of options after this season.

 

C: Jansen

1b: Vlad

2b: Schneider

SS: Bo

3b: Possible internal competition of Barger and Orelvis though I suspect this will be filled externally for a glove first stop gap

LF: ? - must not be brain dead defensively or on the bases. Would really help to hit left handed with actual power.

CF: Varsho

RF: Springer

DH: Horwitz

 

Bench:

Kirk

Biggio

Clement

Backup OF who can play passable CF

 

Rule 5 possible adds: Macko, Lantigua, White(if eligible - see above), there’s a bunch more but these 3 are the most likely imo.

[Carlos Danger]

good season. I think we go further next year if everyone plays a lot better and we get more good players, get rid of the bad ones. Chapman and Merroifoield

 

Good season?

 

This was a team supposed to win at least the division, and a WS.. Not back into a lower WC spot finish 3rd in the division and lose 0-2 again in the first WC round.

[hanton]

He gone, but glad that he said it lol

 

money talks but I alreayd knew he was as good as gone after the on field interview he gave during the Apple telecast - he didn't seem happy here

[Daniel Labude]

Jays will sign Vlad long term

 

Bo moved to 2B

 

Youth movement with Orelvis, Schneider, Barger, and maybe Horwitz next season in the lineup, a revamped Manoah and then Tiedemann to the rotation

 

Kikuchi traded

 

80% of the FO and coaches replaced

[TheHurl]

FA Merrifield

 

 

This shows why I think the coaching staff needs to go. The Rays had one pitcher who refused to learn the analytical decisions they were making. They got rid of him and moved someone from the front office down to the bench. The players need to be educated on these decisions and that is on the coaching staff

[Omar]

Wow, what an indictment of Jays management. I guess he doesn't plan to be back.

 

 

FA Merrifield

 

[hanton]

Wow, what an indictment of Jays management. I guess he doesn't plan to be back.

 

I think this shows how pissed the players were at the decision to remove Berrios, I was flipping back and forth between SN and ESPN and they were also losing it on that decision

[Masterbather]

This shows why I think the coaching staff needs to go. The Rays had one pitcher who refused to learn the analytical decisions they were making. They got rid of him and moved someone from the front office down to the bench. The players need to be educated on these decisions and that is on the coaching staff

Or maybe chill on the overbearing analytical decisions.