General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[John_Havok]

I don't know man. You think anyone wants Bassitt for $21M? I don't think they'd even get a lottery ticket for him. I think someone would find the money to add Green, simply because lockdown RPers are money in the playoffs. Bassitt wouldn't help anyone in the playoffs this year.

 

Oh for sure he'd be a guy they'd have to eat salary to move but they could get some warm body/ lotto ticket back.

 

Besides, if they're under the tax already, there's no reason to shed salary. And even if they did as you said, who's taking him on just to pay him 21 million next season?

[Brownie19]

Oh for sure he'd be a guy they'd have to eat salary to move but they could get some warm body/ lotto ticket back.

 

Besides, if they're under the tax already, there's no reason to shed salary. And even if they did as you said, who's taking him on just to pay him 21 million next season?

 

I don't know - but it's worth trying. There might be a desperate team out there. Having another $21M to spend in free agency this offseason would be sweet.

[John_Havok]

I don't know - but it's worth trying. There might be a desperate team out there. Having another $21M to spend in free agency this offseason would be sweet.

 

Yeah, I think it would probably go the opposite way though, like they'd sign a guy first, then trade Bassit.

 

But I think he's here next season unless Atkins pulls off some wizardry

[Brownie19]

Yeah, I think it would probably go the opposite way though, like they'd sign a guy first, then trade Bassit.

 

But I think he's here next season unless Atkins pulls off some wizardry

 

Yep - I agree

[jaysblue]

Sorry but wasn't it just last season most considered Chris Bassitt a bargain and an awesome FA signing? Now everyone wants him gone? lol.

[jaysblue]

I for one was critical of the Bassitt signing at the time thinking 3 years and $63M was absurd for a guy who was 34. I was even arguing that Kyle Gibson would have been a better signing on a one-year deal.

 

Overall, Bassitt has been pretty decent however, providing durability and innings. He posted a 2.4 fWAR last season and this season so far has posted a 2.2 fWAR. There is some value in that, even for 2025 if the Jays plan on contending. Not the sexiest arm in the rotation but over 162 games, he's proven he can be valuable. I wouldn't toss him to the curve just yet.

[Brownie19]

Sorry but wasn't it just last season most considered Chris Bassitt a bargain and an awesome FA signing? Now everyone wants him gone? lol.

 

I don't think I've seen anyone ever referred to Bassitt as a "bargin". I think people were happy with him as a FA signing and he's filled a need for 2023 and 2024. I don't think it's unexpected that people would like to get rid of an aging FA signing in the final year of his deal. You're always expecting to get the value in the front half of FA deals and some dead weight at the back. I suspect we're stuck with him next year. He'll still eat his innings and be a solid starter, but we'd like to have that $21M to spend elsewhere.

[jaysblue]

I don't think I've seen anyone ever referred to Bassitt as a "bargin". I think people were happy with him as a FA signing and he's filled a need for 2023 and 2024. I don't think it's unexpected that people would like to get rid of an aging FA signing in the final year of his deal. You're always expecting to get the value in the front half of FA deals and some dead weight at the back. I suspect we're stuck with him next year. He'll still eat his innings and be a solid starter, but we'd like to have that $21M to spend elsewhere.

 

Yeah I understand. I don't have a problem with Bassitt sticking around next season since his contract is expiring anyways. He'll still be a solid starter and eat his innings which is valuable.

 

Eovaldi I'm assuming is going to cost around $18-20M AAV on a short term deal like maybe 2 or 3 years. And the last two seasons both him and Bassitt have been pretty identical.

 

Not sure what Flaherty gets, but he likely also could cost around $18-20M AAV and given his age might get more years, depending if teams believe he can remain healthy.

[Madkenstalin]

Not intentionally

 

I guess if you rotate it and squint it sort of looks like the eye and mouth crack are the CN Tower

 

Thanks. I thought it was deliberate, and it was a "I was today years old" moment - like the A-Z in amazon, and the arrow in Fed Ex.

(mis read your comment as "on crack" not "mouth crack"

[Spanky99]

Tigers could eat 100% of that contract and they still wouldn't get a prospect in trade.

 

Apparently I was out of line.

[Spanky99]

I don't know man. You think anyone wants Bassitt for $21M? I don't think they'd even get a lottery ticket for him. I think someone would find the money to add Green, simply because lockdown RPers are money in the playoffs. Bassitt wouldn't help anyone in the playoffs this year.

 

Jays aren't selling Brownie, you can get past that dream in a minute now, mate.

[Ryu In My House]

Apparently I was out of line.

 

No, you were right on brand with your typical, add nothing to the conversation, posts. But I mean, it's not your fault. You truly have no insight.

[Ryu In My House]

Yeah I understand. I don't have a problem with Bassitt sticking around next season since his contract is expiring anyways. He'll still be a solid starter and eat his innings which is valuable.

 

Eovaldi I'm assuming is going to cost around $18-20M AAV on a short term deal like maybe 2 or 3 years. And the last two seasons both him and Bassitt have been pretty identical.

 

Not sure what Flaherty gets, but he likely also could cost around $18-20M AAV and given his age might get more years, depending if teams believe he can remain healthy.

 

 

I hope they make a run at Kikuchi, tbh. I don't know what a 3-year deal looks like, but I make that phone call.

[John_Havok]

Jays aren't selling Brownie, you can get past that dream in a minute now, mate.

 

We're mostly just discussing for the sake of discuss8ng at this point, not really advocating

[Brownie19]

Jays aren't selling Brownie, you can get past that dream in a minute now, mate.

 

Yes, I'm aware. It's just a pipe dream that we have an extra $21M to spend on a difference maker and not on Chris Bassitt. It's a pipe dream. I know.

[jaysblue]

Was having a discussion with a friend and we were talking about starting pitchers after Bowden Francis pitched another gem last night. He mentioned since 2000 the Jays really haven't developed any consistently good SPs other than Roy Halladay and Marcus Stroman, starting pitchers who went onto have long & successful careers. Like damn when you think about it.

 

I asked him what about Ricky Romero, Shaun Marcum and maybe Alek Manoah can be thrown into that mix. But yeah, they all had success only in the short term (Romero for 3 seasons from 2009-2011), (Marcum from 2007-2012; missed all of 2009), Alek Manoah (2021 & 2022).

 

Kinda of shocking that this organization as a whole under three-four different regimes, the only two consistently arms developed were Halladay and Stroman.

[BatFlip]

Was having a discussion with a friend and we were talking about starting pitchers after Bowden Francis pitched another gem last night. He mentioned since 2000 the Jays really haven't developed any consistently good SPs other than Roy Halladay and Marcus Stroman, starting pitchers who went onto have long & successful careers. Like damn when you think about it.

 

I asked him what about Ricky Romero, Shaun Marcum and maybe Alek Manoah can be thrown into that mix. But yeah, they all had success only in the short term (Romero for 3 seasons from 2009-2011), (Marcum from 2007-2012; missed all of 2009), Alek Manoah (2021 & 2022).

 

Kinda of shocking that this organization as a whole under three-four different regimes, the only two consistently arms developed were Halladay and Stroman.

 

 

I agree with you and your buddy, but there also aren't many organizations just pumping out starting pitchers with long & successful careers. I think what's more shocking is that they haven't had many Romero/Marcum/Manoahs. Guys who have a few years of success in the bigs before the wheels fall off due to injury or underperformance.

[Laika]

Was having a discussion with a friend and we were talking about starting pitchers after Bowden Francis pitched another gem last night. He mentioned since 2000 the Jays really haven't developed any consistently good SPs other than Roy Halladay and Marcus Stroman, starting pitchers who went onto have long & successful careers. Like damn when you think about it.

 

I asked him what about Ricky Romero, Shaun Marcum and maybe Alek Manoah can be thrown into that mix. But yeah, they all had success only in the short term (Romero for 3 seasons from 2009-2011), (Marcum from 2007-2012; missed all of 2009), Alek Manoah (2021 & 2022).

 

Kinda of shocking that this organization as a whole under three-four different regimes, the only two consistently arms developed were Halladay and Stroman.

 

It is brutal

 

If you look for home-grown guys who have provided like, 100+ GS and solid WAR to the Blue Jays, there is nobody other than those two. And Chris Carpenter but he was on the edge of 2000.

 

You can sort of give them points for Estrada because he was a swing-man when they traded for him. You can sort of give them points for Happ since he turned into a better P in Toronto.

 

But so many guys who flashed promise just crumbled after 1-2 decent years. Hutchison, Sanchez, Cecil, Litsch, Henderson Alvarez, Marcum (3 years; traded), Romero (3 years), Chacin, McGowan, Manoah...

 

And they traded away some guys who ended up doing it for other teams. Disco and Musgrove off the top of my head.

 

I am tempted to say "that's just pitching" but I would guess that at least half of the league has done a bit better

[jaysblue]

I agree with you and your buddy, but there also aren't many organizations just pumping out starting pitchers with long & successful careers. I think what's more shocking is that they haven't had many Romero/Marcum/Manoahs. Guys who have a few years of success in the bigs before the wheels fall off due to injury or underperformance.

 

Yeah for sure, the success rate amongst other organizations isn't that great either. We've seen some pitchers come up dominate for 2 to 3 years, then get injured and miss a lot of time afterwards.

 

Hopefully Francis can be a guy who has a few years of success up in the bigs. Would be a big help for the rotation over the next 2-3 years.

[Ryu In My House]

Was having a discussion with a friend and we were talking about starting pitchers after Bowden Francis pitched another gem last night. He mentioned since 2000 the Jays really haven't developed any consistently good SPs other than Roy Halladay and Marcus Stroman, starting pitchers who went onto have long & successful careers. Like damn when you think about it.

 

I asked him what about Ricky Romero, Shaun Marcum and maybe Alek Manoah can be thrown into that mix. But yeah, they all had success only in the short term (Romero for 3 seasons from 2009-2011), (Marcum from 2007-2012; missed all of 2009), Alek Manoah (2021 & 2022).

 

Kinda of shocking that this organization as a whole under three-four different regimes, the only two consistently arms developed were Halladay and Stroman.

 

That just means we're due.

 

Francis emerging is such a nice surprise. Certainly a strong candidate for one of the starting 5 SPs next season. If they sign one more okay vet, who can start and provide innings in middle relief when needed, they can start focusing resources on everything else.

[BatFlip]

Yeah for sure, the success rate amongst other organizations isn't that great either. We've seen some pitchers come up dominate for 2 to 3 years, then get injured and miss a lot of time afterwards.

 

Hopefully Francis can be a guy who has a few years of success up in the bigs. Would be a big help for the rotation over the next 2-3 years.

 

 

Francis could be some incredible found money. With all these aging, high-priced arms in the rotation we desperately needed someone to provide some performance for league minimum dollars.

 

If he can keep up this run through year-end and if some of these young bats stay at a 2 WAR type pace, I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances to compete for a wildcard next year if we put $50M into bats/one SP/RP dumpster diving.

[Spanky99]

No, you were right on brand with your typical, add nothing to the conversation, posts. But I mean, it's not your fault. You truly have no insight.

 

K..... lets sign that interesting target Javy Baez.

[Terminator]

If we sweep the Twins we will be 4.5 games back of the WC with 23 games left. Do you believe in miracles?

[wilko]

If we sweep the Twins we will be 4.5 games back of the WC with 23 games left. Do you believe in miracles?

 

That would be wild if they do this. Not that long ago people's junk got hard for a shot at #1st pick in the draft. Now they Jays could be sniffing the playoffs...

[The Cats Ass]

Yes, I'm aware. It's just a pipe dream that we have an extra $21M to spend on a difference maker and not on Chris Bassitt. It's a pipe dream. I know.

 

I'm not sure what you have against Bassitt, but WAR wise he's been a top 50 pitcher this year.

[Spanky99]

I'm not sure what you have against Bassitt, but WAR wise he's been a top 50 pitcher this year.

 

Yeah, RA9 has him at 53, he's fine.

[BatFlip]

Yeah, RA9 has him at 53, he's fine.

 

Yup. We got bigger roster issues to worry about then Bassitt’s last year.

[Spanky99]

Yup. We got bigger roster issues to worry about then Bassitt’s last year.

 

They're clearly not selling, my only question is how far over the CBT do they go as the end of the season comes along, there will only be first time penalties on payroll again as it's reset. They could go well north of the forum consensus of 50M to spend. IMO, especially if Soto is acquired. He's out for dollar bills only. If that happens, they'll spend out there ass.

[Brownie19]

I'm not sure what you have against Bassitt, but WAR wise he's been a top 50 pitcher this year.

 

I understand that. But he's not a pitcher you'd want to start in a playoff game (you would in a 7 game series if you had to). He has a high floor and a low ceiling. I just think there's better uses of $21M. I'm sure Atkins is foaming at the mouth to trade that loud mouth f*** who bashed the FO anyway.

[Stangstag]

I understand that. But he's not a pitcher you'd want to start in a playoff game (you would in a 7 game series if you had to). He has a high floor and a low ceiling. I just think there's better uses of $21M. I'm sure Atkins is foaming at the mouth to trade that loud mouth f*** who bashed the FO anyway.

 

Lol, should’ve traded him at the deadline. If we end up trading Bassit for peanuts in the offseason then you know Atkins is a f***ing spineless weenie.

 

Im very curious to see what happens with Bo too