General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Brownie19]

Joey Loperfido! 0 walks 9 ks

 

So I checked Derek Fisher stats. He reminds me of Derek Fisher superficially. lol. They are the same. Same minor league stats. Same major league stats.

 

Same height. Same weight.

 

Same looking awful when they arrive to Blue Jay land.

 

Hopefully Loperfido doesn't get hit in the face with a ball leading to a 14 run inning (I think something close to that actually happened in an empty Yankee Stadium).

 

Derek Fisher retired I guess after no longer even being able to hit triple a pitching. Hopefully Loperfido does better. Early returns not good.

 

I said this when he was first acquired. The good news is he's also similar to Teo (albeit he's left handed). He's a high upside lottery ticket.

[glory]

Joey Loperfido! 0 walks 9 ks

 

So I checked Derek Fisher stats. He reminds me of Derek Fisher superficially. lol. They are the same. Same minor league stats. Same major league stats.

 

Same height. Same weight.

 

Same looking awful when they arrive to Blue Jay land.

 

Hopefully Loperfido doesn't get hit in the face with a ball leading to a 14 run inning (I think something close to that actually happened in an empty Yankee Stadium).

 

Derek Fisher retired I guess after no longer even being able to hit triple a pitching. Hopefully Loperfido does better. Early returns not good.

 

He could be Fisher (most likely) or could be Teoscar (less likely), but I'm fine with giving him plate appearances to see what he has. He shouldn't be batting 2nd though. The Jays need to hit on some lottery tickets, especially if they are avoiding a real sell off and are doing the same thing they did in 2017-19. They got lucky with Teoscar. They need to get lucky again, and probably lucky more often because there isn't a Vlad/Bo in the system that they can dream on once the 2025 "window" is closed (well, closed in the FO's mind....chances are in reality it already closed after the last out in Minnesota last year).

[BatFlip]

He could be Fisher (most likely) or could be Teoscar (less likely), but I'm fine with giving him plate appearances to see what he has. He shouldn't be batting 2nd though. The Jays need to hit on some lottery tickets, especially if they are avoiding a real sell off and are doing the same thing they did in 2017-19. They got lucky with Teoscar. They need to get lucky again, and probably lucky more often because there isn't a Vlad/Bo in the system that they can dream on once the 2025 "window" is closed (well, closed in the FO's mind....chances are in reality it already closed after the last out in Minnesota last year).

 

Yeah, exactly. Too early to conclude, but lets give plate appearances and let him provide more results for evaluation.

 

It doesn't matter if the odds are against him being the next Teo, just keep rolling the dice on these young guys because we need some league minimum starters if we have any chance of competing in the coming years.

[Spanky99]

Players that our considered lottery tickets are young and far away with high upside. Loperfido's not that, boom or bust, sure, or he becomes a regular.(This caveat can be said with all prospects)

 

A 50FV spect is a really nice get(Jays killed this trade)...

 

Scouting Report: Loperfido is a well-rounded player with no standout tool. At the plate, he sets up with his hands high, equal with the crown of his helmet. A moderate leg lift gives way to an explosive lefthanded swing. Loperfido has shown average bat-to-ball skills and a good balance of aggression and patience as he has climbed the ladder. During his month at Triple-A, he struggled to make contact and expanded at a much higher rate than at any of his previous stops. He shows above-average game power with the ability to get to it by slugging 25 home runs in 2023. Loperfido’s groundball rate is on the higher side, capping some of his raw power until an adjustment is made. An above-average runner underway, he is a baserunning threat. He stole 27 bases in 31 attempts in 2023. Loperfido’s speed translates to the outfield, where he shows the ability to handle center field. His arm is below-average but has been enough to make him playable at a variety of positions. Loperfido saw playing time at five positions in 2023: first base, second base and all three outfield spots.

 

The Future: Loperfido fits the super-utility profile with average or better hitting ability and a nice power and speed combination.

 

Scouting Grades Hit: 45 | Power: 55 | Run: 55 | Field: 45 | Arm: 45

[max silver]

He could be Fisher (most likely) or could be Teoscar (less likely), but I'm fine with giving him plate appearances to see what he has. He shouldn't be batting 2nd though. The Jays need to hit on some lottery tickets, especially if they are avoiding a real sell off and are doing the same thing they did in 2017-19. They got lucky with Teoscar. They need to get lucky again, and probably lucky more often because there isn't a Vlad/Bo in the system that they can dream on once the 2025 "window" is closed (well, closed in the FO's mind....chances are in reality it already closed after the last out in Minnesota last year).

 

Or Loperfido could end up somewhere in between Fisher and Teo. Unlike Fisher he's already shown he can catch a routine fly ball, and he actually might be a very solid outfield defender at this stage which is something Teoscar never fully developed into given his propensity for defensive miscues. If Loperfido can find a way to more consistently make contact at the plate he has a chance to be a really solid player.

[Terminator]

Yeah Loperfido's defense gives him the edge over Fisher. Even with his slow start at the plate he is accumulating WAR and even if he doesn't improve much there he can be a 4th OF so long as he remains cheap.

 

The general concern that both have Quad-A bats is pretty similar though.

[Spanky99]

Vladito won his 2nd player of the week award today...

[Omar]

Crybaby.

 

 

 

[Jays24]

Crybaby.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you'll feel good about it next year when we do it again but with you on our side this time lol.

[Spanky99]

Holy crap... our BP RA9 is -2.5 *pukes*

[BTS]

Holy crap... our BP RA9 is -2.5 *pukes*

 

-1.6 fWAR too. Pretty easily the worst bullpen in baseball so far this season.

[BTS]

Ernie Clement and IKF are tied for 4th in fWAR among the team's reliever this year.

 

Among players still on the team, Chad Green and Ryan Burr are tied for first in relief fWAR with 0.1.

[Spanky99]

-1.6 fWAR too. Pretty easily the worst bullpen in baseball so far this season.

 

CWS has been the worst, a close 2nd worst is Rockies and the Jays, pukeworthy.

 

Ernie Clement and IKF are tied for 4th in fWAR among the team's reliever this year.

 

Among players still on the team, Chad Green and Ryan Burr are tied for first in relief fWAR with 0.1.

 

lulz... look at the value our pen lost in dollars, Green's been good, 1.6 RA9

[The_DH]

Loperfido appears to be a good 4th outfielder candidate, maybe even pick up a number of at-bats during an injury or something like that, but not an integral part of the batting order on a daily basis. We clearly need a real LF to bat with Vlad.

[Brownie19]

Or Loperfido could end up somewhere in between Fisher and Teo. Unlike Fisher he's already shown he can catch a routine fly ball, and he actually might be a very solid outfield defender at this stage which is something Teoscar never fully developed into given his propensity for defensive miscues. If Loperfido can find a way to more consistently make contact at the plate he has a chance to be a really solid player.

 

If I recall correctly, it's not like Fisher had a long history of being this horrendous fielder who couldn't catch a routine flyball. He played CF throughout the minors. I might be slightly off on this, but I think that all developed after he missed a flyball with Toronto (did it hit him in the face?). It's like he became Steve Sax and got the yips and from then on, he had all kinds of issues defensively. That kind of s*** is so unpredictable and it's sad to see.

[max silver]

If I recall correctly, it's not like Fisher had a long history of being this horrendous fielder who couldn't catch a routine flyball. He played CF throughout the minors. I might be slightly off on this, but I think that all developed after he missed a flyball with Toronto (did it hit him in the face?). It's like he became Steve Sax and got the yips and from then on, he had all kinds of issues defensively. That kind of s*** is so unpredictable and it's sad to see.

 

Yeah I legitimately think he was ruined in the field by the flyball that hit him in the face. You could tell he was scared of the ball from that moment moving forward as he was always shying away from fly balls afterwards.

[BigCecil]

Varsho is 143rd in MLB with a .255 xwOBA. 2.2 WAR

 

Guy is an elite defender and likable player, but way over fapped.

[Stangstag]

Varsho is 143rd in MLB with a .255 xwOBA. 2.2 WAR

 

Guy is an elite defender and likable player, but way over fapped.

 

Yeah he’s clearly not the hitter he showed in 2022. Frustrating as hell but at least he’s elite with the glove.

 

Seeming more and more like Varsho is Kevin Pillar with a bit more pop. Frustrating trade in hindsight considering Kirk completely fell off a cliff too

[Spanky99]

Geez guys, not this again, lol.

[AMS528]

Geez guys, not this again, lol.

 

Moreno is a 24 year old catcher with 2.4 fWAR in 86 games, who is really good defensively, who walks at a solid rate and strikes out very little. If he develops a touch of additional power, he has a shot at putting out really great overall numbers for a few years.

 

Varsho is an amazing unmatched fielder, but he is a bad hitter, is probably going to continue to be a bad hitter, is 28 years old not 24, and becomes a free agent 2 years earlier than Moreno.

 

This isn't going to go down as a terrible trade value wise and shouldn't because Varsho is such a great fielder that he has a floor there, but you cannot be surprised, and you should probably expect that this is going to be a conversation for as long as Moreno succeeds. We obtained him for the #1 prospect in baseball, and that prospect is succeeding.

[Stangstag]

Geez guys, not this again, lol.

 

More than fair to start calling the trade a bust now. And I am a big Varsho fan, bought his jersey. He just isn't a good hitter.

 

Trade made sense at the time, dealing from a position of strength to get a LHH OF which we desperately needed. They just went for the wrong guy IMO.

[Spanky99]

Moreno is a 24 year old catcher with 2.4 fWAR in 86 games, who is really good defensively, who walks at a solid rate and strikes out very little. If he develops a touch of additional power, he has a shot at putting out really great overall numbers for a few years.

 

Varsho is an amazing unmatched fielder, but he is a bad hitter, is probably going to continue to be a bad hitter, is 28 years old not 24, and becomes a free agent 2 years earlier than Moreno.

 

This isn't going to go down as a terrible trade value wise and shouldn't because Varsho is such a great fielder that he has a floor there, but you cannot be surprised, and you should probably expect that this is going to be a conversation for as long as Moreno succeeds. We obtained him for the #1 prospect in baseball, and that prospect is succeeding.

 

Yes.

[Spanky99]

More than fair to start calling the trade a bust now. And I am a big Varsho fan, bought his jersey. He just isn't a good hitter.

 

Trade made sense at the time, dealing from a position of strength to get a LHH OF which we desperately needed. They just went for the wrong guy IMO.

 

No.

[Brownie19]

More than fair to start calling the trade a bust now. And I am a big Varsho fan, bought his jersey. He just isn't a good hitter.

 

Trade made sense at the time, dealing from a position of strength to get a LHH OF which we desperately needed. They just went for the wrong guy IMO.

 

I generally agree, although I don't think "bust" is the right word. The Doc Halladay trade was a bust. At least we have a very solid starting player in return. A trade we lost seems appropriate. Luckily, it's not a colossal issue. It's not like we traded away Tatis or Yordan for a rental.

[metafour]

We obtained him for the #1 prospect in baseball, and that prospect is succeeding.

 

He was NOT the "#1 prospect in baseball" when he was traded. He ranked #1 for a few weeks on BA's list during a midseason July update after 4-5 prospects ranked ahead of him all graduated off the list. He was moved up by default, but more importantly, when BA did their actual full re-rank at the beginning of the next year he dropped to a spot even lower than he was before he temporarily became "the #1 prospect". He went from #5 (early 2022), to #1 (midseason 2022), and then down to #12 in January 2023 when BA did a full re-ranking of their entire list.

 

He was traded on December 23, 2022. The lists themselves are always behind the actual industry consensus. Nobody in baseball had him as the "#1 prospect" at the time of the trade. This is no different than how the Jays announced the recent acquisition of Charles McAdoo who was "ranked #25-30" on Pittsburgh's lists, and then all of a sudden the writers came out to report that they were about to move him up to Top 10-15. In the case of Moreno, his #12 ranking on January 18th, 2023 is more accurately indicative of where he was ranked at the actual time of trade, NOT his July 2022 temporary "#1" ranking. Again, he was traded on December 23rd, 2022 - not in July 2022.

 

[metafour]

Moreno is a 24 year old catcher with 2.4 fWAR in 86 games, who is really good defensively, who walks at a solid rate and strikes out very little. If he develops a touch of additional power, he has a shot at putting out really great overall numbers for a few years.

 

Alejandro Kirk is a 25 year old catcher with a 1.2 fWAR in 61 games, who is really good defensively, who walks at a solid rate and strikes out very little. If he develops a touch of additional power, he has a shot at putting out really great overall numbers for a few years.

[max silver]

More than fair to start calling the trade a bust now. And I am a big Varsho fan, bought his jersey. He just isn't a good hitter.

 

Trade made sense at the time, dealing from a position of strength to get a LHH OF which we desperately needed. They just went for the wrong guy IMO.

 

I'm not sure how that makes a lot of sense. The trade was a 3 win outfielder for a 3 win catcher.

[Stangstag]

I generally agree, although I don't think "bust" is the right word. The Doc Halladay trade was a bust. At least we have a very solid starting player in return. A trade we lost seems appropriate. Luckily, it's not a colossal issue. It's not like we traded away Tatis or Yordan for a rental.

 

Yeah that’s fair. Not a terrible a trade, but you have to think Moreno could have got us a better player, even if he was part of a bigger package. Varsho is not a difference-maker and we gave up 2 years of control.

 

I think its clear the front office thought he’d be more of a 110ish wRC+ hitter.

[glory]

One thing I’ll say about the trade is that it’s not Varsho’s fault that they traded for an elite defensive CF with shoddy expected offensive numbers and put him in LF for 2 years and also batted him high in the order as if he were a middle of the order bat. If they had Varsho in CF for the past two years and someone like Teoscar (or whoever) in LF that could provide power/offense, then we wouldn’t be complaining about this deal as much. I think the trade was a “bust” in the sense that trading a top prospect for a LH Pillar is probably not the outcome the team was looking for (or needed) but from a pure value standpoint it’s probably a marginal loss. Really depends on what other offers they had for Moreno or the other catchers to know if any value was lost in a trade but we will never know.

[Terminator]

The Varsho in LF thing is so overblown IMO.

 

It worked out amazingly in year 1. They doubled down on KK in Year 2 and it didn't work, but it's not because Varsho was playing a lot of LF, it was because KK sucked.